Comments on: Don't send me 12 pages of a 6 issue series http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/dont-send-me-12-pages-of-a-6-issue-series/ Covering Comic Book News and Entertainment Sun, 22 Nov 2009 20:59:55 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Larry Young http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/dont-send-me-12-pages-of-a-6-issue-series/comment-page-1/#comment-646 Larry Young Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:06:12 +0000 http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/dont-send-me-12-pages-of-a-6-issue-series/#comment-646 As a creator myself, I don't think it's all that difficult a thing to see the commercial value in an idea; comics is a commercial art, after all! But thanks for your views, JM. That's what makes comics so interesting to me, personally; the varied experiences of the audience and the points of view of all the folks in the chain from having an idea to giving you change from your purchase at the comic shop. As a creator myself, I don't think it's all that difficult a thing to see the commercial value in an idea; comics is a commercial art, after all!

But thanks for your views, JM. That's what makes comics so interesting to me, personally; the varied experiences of the audience and the points of view of all the folks in the chain from having an idea to giving you change from your purchase at the comic shop.

]]> By: JM Ringuet http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/dont-send-me-12-pages-of-a-6-issue-series/comment-page-1/#comment-632 JM Ringuet Thu, 15 Jan 2009 04:18:05 +0000 http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/dont-send-me-12-pages-of-a-6-issue-series/#comment-632 Well that's the whole point: a publisher should be able to tell a creator that he/she is doing something that has potential or not after seeing 12 pages (or 5 like most publishers do). It's hard for a creator to see commercial potential, but it should be easy for a publisher to do so. I think the whole idea of this article is: do not submit your book to Larry Young, and find some other way to publish it. Well that's the whole point: a publisher should be able to tell a creator that he/she is doing something that has potential or not after seeing 12 pages (or 5 like most publishers do). It's hard for a creator to see commercial potential, but it should be easy for a publisher to do so.

I think the whole idea of this article is: do not submit your book to Larry Young, and find some other way to publish it.

]]> By: greg gray http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/dont-send-me-12-pages-of-a-6-issue-series/comment-page-1/#comment-609 greg gray Wed, 14 Jan 2009 20:09:33 +0000 http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/dont-send-me-12-pages-of-a-6-issue-series/#comment-609 Thanks Larry, Understand completely now. If you believe your work is good you should have the faith to complete it off your own back. I agree. Thanks Larry,
Understand completely now. If you believe your work is good you should have the faith to complete it off your own back. I agree.

]]> By: Larry Young http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/dont-send-me-12-pages-of-a-6-issue-series/comment-page-1/#comment-607 Larry Young Wed, 14 Jan 2009 19:52:00 +0000 http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/dont-send-me-12-pages-of-a-6-issue-series/#comment-607 Hey, Greg: "Could you say what it was you did differently to what the “6-issue” person was proposing." I had written and paid Matt Smith and Charlie Adlard to draw my five issue series ASTRONAUTS IN TROUBLE and sent the 110 pages around to publishers until Gun Dog Comics first published it way back in 1998. If you complete your work, someone somewhere will publish it. If you do 12 pages of a six-issue series, they can be the most amazing 12 pages in the world, and the rest of it could suck, and the publisher would never know until it's too late. Jeremy: "Does that mean we should quit and give up? Absolutely not - it means that we need to step back and make sure we understand the market and where we stand. We must do the work (the whole work) and then sell it and ourselves (the Stan Lee part)." Exactly! JM: "And not a lot of people want to invest so much time (and even money) into something that has no commercial potential." If the creator doesn't believe in his story to invest so much time and money, why should the publisher? Hey, Greg: "Could you say what it was you did differently to what the “6-issue” person was proposing." I had written and paid Matt Smith and Charlie Adlard to draw my five issue series ASTRONAUTS IN TROUBLE and sent the 110 pages around to publishers until Gun Dog Comics first published it way back in 1998. If you complete your work, someone somewhere will publish it. If you do 12 pages of a six-issue series, they can be the most amazing 12 pages in the world, and the rest of it could suck, and the publisher would never know until it's too late.

Jeremy: "Does that mean we should quit and give up? Absolutely not - it means that we need to step back and make sure we understand the market and where we stand. We must do the work (the whole work) and then sell it and ourselves (the Stan Lee part)." Exactly!

JM: "And not a lot of people want to invest so much time (and even money) into something that has no commercial potential." If the creator doesn't believe in his story to invest so much time and money, why should the publisher?

]]> By: JM Ringuet http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/dont-send-me-12-pages-of-a-6-issue-series/comment-page-1/#comment-598 JM Ringuet Wed, 14 Jan 2009 14:29:45 +0000 http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/dont-send-me-12-pages-of-a-6-issue-series/#comment-598 Jeremy, allow me to say something.. The job of a creator is to create. The job of a publisher is to publish. Now I understand that a creator should be aware of what a publisher usually puts out before submitting, but asking a creator to really know the market is unfair. It's the job of the publisher to know the market and to inform the creator of what are the necessities of that market. If a 6 issues miniseries has very little chance to work then the publisher should tell the creator to change it to 4 issues or 3, rather than just rejecting it outright because the creator doesn't know the market. What is the role of the publisher after all? As for completing a whole series before submitting it, no publishers ask for it (outside of AIT I presume). And not a lot of people want to invest so much time (and even money) into something that has no commercial potential. Because pitching to the publisher is also the way for a creator to gage if a book has any potential. That is the same thing as a Hollywood pitch. So let's have the creators create, and let's have the publishers publish and everything will be clearer. Jeremy, allow me to say something..
The job of a creator is to create.
The job of a publisher is to publish.
Now I understand that a creator should be aware of what a publisher usually puts out before submitting, but asking a creator to really know the market is unfair. It's the job of the publisher to know the market and to inform the creator of what are the necessities of that market. If a 6 issues miniseries has very little chance to work then the publisher should tell the creator to change it to 4 issues or 3, rather than just rejecting it outright because the creator doesn't know the market.
What is the role of the publisher after all?
As for completing a whole series before submitting it, no publishers ask for it (outside of AIT I presume). And not a lot of people want to invest so much time (and even money) into something that has no commercial potential. Because pitching to the publisher is also the way for a creator to gage if a book has any potential. That is the same thing as a Hollywood pitch.
So let's have the creators create, and let's have the publishers publish and everything will be clearer.

]]> By: Jeremy Mace http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/dont-send-me-12-pages-of-a-6-issue-series/comment-page-1/#comment-597 Jeremy Mace Wed, 14 Jan 2009 13:41:29 +0000 http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/dont-send-me-12-pages-of-a-6-issue-series/#comment-597 This is an extremely effective article that cuts right to the point of the problem. We have stories, we want to see them in the comic stores, but how do we get them there? The scenario he outlines seems like the way to go: design a preview and try to get some momentum - but he is saying that a publisher cannot make an effective decision on that alone. How do they know how long it took you to get that little preview? How many people are involved with the project? If they see a completed book they can make an informed decision to drop thousands (and I know there is a discussion about numbers) into it. I also think that they want a relationship with an effective creator/writer/artist that they can have a future with. Most of us are so wrapped up in our little book and the prospect of seeing it with an "i" in the corner that we can't look at things objectively. Does that mean we should quit and give up? Absolutely not - it means that we need to step back and make sure we understand the market and where we stand. We must do the work (the whole work) and then sell it and ourselves (the Stan Lee part). This is an extremely effective article that cuts right to the point of the problem. We have stories, we want to see them in the comic stores, but how do we get them there? The scenario he outlines seems like the way to go: design a preview and try to get some momentum - but he is saying that a publisher cannot make an effective decision on that alone. How do they know how long it took you to get that little preview? How many people are involved with the project? If they see a completed book they can make an informed decision to drop thousands (and I know there is a discussion about numbers) into it. I also think that they want a relationship with an effective creator/writer/artist that they can have a future with. Most of us are so wrapped up in our little book and the prospect of seeing it with an "i" in the corner that we can't look at things objectively. Does that mean we should quit and give up? Absolutely not - it means that we need to step back and make sure we understand the market and where we stand. We must do the work (the whole work) and then sell it and ourselves (the Stan Lee part).

]]> By: JM Ringuet http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/dont-send-me-12-pages-of-a-6-issue-series/comment-page-1/#comment-596 JM Ringuet Wed, 14 Jan 2009 11:25:22 +0000 http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/dont-send-me-12-pages-of-a-6-issue-series/#comment-596 To come back with some numbers even Kablam charges 1.54 per comic for a B&W run of 3000 (that would be $27720 for 18k copies) and Kablam is VERY expensive as printers go. Plus no publisher would ever pay for the entire series printing run beforehand (they would get profit back from Diamond by the time Issue 3 is out if the book is monthly), so that $30,000 is even more misleading. Also in my experience most publishers break even at 2,500 copies sold not 5,600 like you said. Your figures seem very inflated for some reason. To come back with some numbers even Kablam charges 1.54 per comic for a B&W run of 3000 (that would be $27720 for 18k copies) and Kablam is VERY expensive as printers go. Plus no publisher would ever pay for the entire series printing run beforehand (they would get profit back from Diamond by the time Issue 3 is out if the book is monthly), so that $30,000 is even more misleading.
Also in my experience most publishers break even at 2,500 copies sold not 5,600 like you said.
Your figures seem very inflated for some reason.

]]> By: greg gray http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/dont-send-me-12-pages-of-a-6-issue-series/comment-page-1/#comment-592 greg gray Wed, 14 Jan 2009 05:46:09 +0000 http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/dont-send-me-12-pages-of-a-6-issue-series/#comment-592 Hi Larry, Sorry I don't understand either. Could you say what it was you did differently to what the "6-issue" person was proposing. That'd be helpful as well as interesting I think. Thanks. G Hi Larry,
Sorry I don't understand either. Could you say what it was you did differently to what the "6-issue" person was proposing. That'd be helpful as well as interesting I think. Thanks.
G

]]> By: JM Ringuet http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/dont-send-me-12-pages-of-a-6-issue-series/comment-page-1/#comment-590 JM Ringuet Wed, 14 Jan 2009 04:47:46 +0000 http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/dont-send-me-12-pages-of-a-6-issue-series/#comment-590 18000 copies in B&W cost you $30,000?! That seem way way too high! Better get quotes from other printers. Other than that what is the point of your article exactly? You tell the guy he should send you the WHOLE book for you to be able to make a judgment (and thankfully not every publisher out there is like you) and then you explain with strange numbers that anyway his book would never be successful. Am I getting that right? What is exactly your advice? You say 'Do the work, put it out', does that means you are advising him to self-publish? Or are you just saying 'don't try to publish comics'? It's all very confused and very confusing. 18000 copies in B&W cost you $30,000?! That seem way way too high! Better get quotes from other printers.

Other than that what is the point of your article exactly? You tell the guy he should send you the WHOLE book for you to be able to make a judgment (and thankfully not every publisher out there is like you) and then you explain with strange numbers that anyway his book would never be successful. Am I getting that right?

What is exactly your advice? You say 'Do the work, put it out', does that means you are advising him to self-publish? Or are you just saying 'don't try to publish comics'?

It's all very confused and very confusing.

]]> By: Larry Young http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/dont-send-me-12-pages-of-a-6-issue-series/comment-page-1/#comment-584 Larry Young Wed, 14 Jan 2009 01:38:11 +0000 http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/dont-send-me-12-pages-of-a-6-issue-series/#comment-584 So, yeah, that's Diamond share; not book trade, as well. But throw in IDW, too, if you think the percentages are the point. I'm saying, the poor guy is trying to put a book out where he's not Alan Moore and the deck is stacked (roughly, now) 9 to 1 against. So, yeah, that's Diamond share; not book trade, as well. But throw in IDW, too, if you think the percentages are the point. I'm saying, the poor guy is trying to put a book out where he's not Alan Moore and the deck is stacked (roughly, now) 9 to 1 against.

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