to my point> i didn't create shatterstar, but i sure do have a lot of comics with him in them, and never once did he strike me as having gay undertones.. ever.

now the smug PAD, who obviously thinks very highly of himself and his ideas (people who deal in imaginary worlds shouldnt have any trouble creating them for themselves), comes along and swipes a page from scott lobdell's (i think) handbook, and makes an existing, previously un-gay character, gay.

the controversy begins.

now, who believes PAD did this in respect for the character of shatterstar, as a logical progression of his story?... ooorr

who thinks he did it to A) irk homophobes and shatterstar fans (i bought 2! action figures) and B) to get people talking and maybe increase sales?

id bet money that PAD isnt as pro-gay as he is pro-money.

as a creator of the character, no one besides liefeld has more say on what the original intention of the character should be, so to bash him for his opinion AS A CREATOR is just as foolish and silly as labeling him as a bigot and homophobe..

which brings me to what irks me the most about this entire thread..

how is it ok to be of the mindset that "gay is totally cool and everyone should love it" but its NOT ok for anyone to have any opinion that differs from that at all without name-calling ensuing?

i'll tell you why, everyone wants to seem so "modern and progressive" and so "unhateful" and "full of diversity" that real discussion is bogged down by people jumping on the "pro-gay, all the way!" bandwagon and won't let any comment even remotely to the contrary pass without cries of "bigot!" "homophobe!"

gays are fine, find love however you want and dont hurt anybody and i'll do the same..

but hack writers DO piss me off.

i guess im a "hack-ophobe"

I read Marvel from the early1970s for 20 years, but stopped in the 1990s because the stories and the art were appalling. Mr. Liefield was one of the worst offenders, but not the only one. Turning his characters over to competent writers can only be considered a step forward.

As for Shatterstar's original asexuality, it makes sense in that he was created by the nutjobs of the Mojovererse with only one mission -- to entertain them by killing people. It makes sense that they would make him childlike in outlook but with an adult body. All children start out asexual in outlook. He wasn't meant to survive long enough to "grow up". But he came to the main Marvel Universe and lived far longer than he was supposed to -- long enough to discover his sexuality. Where's the problem?

Alternate lifestyle is a term coined by you and many people who understands little and knows no gays... we don't call it that... we call it our life... no next time you open your mouth to spew bigotry... do a little research...

Compairing prison sex to normal sex? (yes I dare used the word normal, because gay sex is normal to me and straight sex is normal to you) Male and females in prison have sex with eachother because they have no other choice... The people who are not incarcerated DO have a choice... if so why would anyone "choose to be gay"? So that we can't marry, have no rights, get picked on and in the case of Matthew Shephard killed?

So please next time you speak, keep silent... don't tell gays that they choose anything because if you even knew ONE gay person, you know it's not a choice... go out find a gay person and ask why they would choose to do so...

All the homophobia in Liefeld's argument aside, it's RIDIC and arrogant that he thinks he has the right to "fix" character developments or dictate what other writers do with characters he hasn't touched (aka butchered) for 10 years.

You don't see Lee or Claremont having bratty hissy-fits because Beast looks like a cat now or Emma Frost is a good guy.

But I don’t like this relationship because I feel that it is fan service to gays and bi-sexual readers. The whole thing smacks of ‘political correctness’. And while David has done a much better job in outing Rictor than the hamfisted job that Winnick did with Terry in Green Lantern or Rucka did with Montoya and Batwoman.. The whole thing comes across as ‘soap boxing’ and the author trying to show how avant gard he is.

In addition I have to admit that I now find Rictor a huge turn off. I thought he liked women. And now it turns out that he doesn’t. He was being disingenuous to any of the women he was involved with. The whole thing with Shatterstar makes him a liar. And I don’t like liars.

Anyway Leifeild should just chill and take comfort that nothing is comic books is permanent. The Spider-man reboot is a fine example. It would not surprise me if after this book is cancelled or David’s run is finished. Some other creative team or even Marvel. Takes both characters and shoves them off into a corner, or even (shudder) kills one of them off. And they are never or hardly used again.

I like a lot of Liefeld characters, but mostly because of the magic Fabian Nicieza infused into them. I'd love to hear his take on this, because despite Liefeld's DESIGNING them, Nicieza was the one who brought them to life in the 90's and fleshed them out.

I'd say if anyone had final say on this (besides PAD who is writing the series, obviously) it would be Fabian. And I'd put money down that he wouldn't agree with Rob.

It's unfair to people of alternate lifestyles to say 'their born that way', because then it pigeon holes them as automatically 'very dangerous people.' Why? The ratio of Homosexual/Bi-sexual people in prisons (guilty of crimes) are far higher than Hetero. If these were all 'born' this way then this 'race' of people are the most dangerous in the world.

The above of course is ridiculous, just because a person chooses an alternate lifestyle does not mean they are more inclined to be criminal. The people in those prisons 'adopt' a different lifestyle by 'choice' to satisfy their own urges.

Alternate lifestyle is a choice. A 'preference'. Not an inherited trait.