Comic Book Resources

As for Amazon and other online retailers they have treated me better at getting trades and other collections than any comic book store ever did or will. LCS's are great for individual pamphlets but I'd much rather place my order for the Invincible Ultimate Edition and Astonishing X-Men Omnibus' from them over a shop any day.

The last store I frequnted gave me a 10% discount for driving the 45 minutes there, but even with that discount buying trades ate it up. Thank god for Amazon, they haven't done me wrong, yet.

@Larry: and what happens when the independent retailers go out of business? Do you think Amazon's prices will stay as low as they are now?

The Boston con was great! I had a good time and found some great buys!

@Thad - What happens when the independent retailers go out of business? Then a market that is choking on it's own mucus will no smaller outlets and only few giant outlets to get it's decaying mass out to a fading public.

Do you think Amazon's prices will stay as low as they are now? Absolutely not. But if the shops go out of business, they go out of business, I don't wish that to happen, but seeing that paying $3.99 is the norm for a monthly comic, they are, in my mind, committing publishing hari-kiri.

Regardless I will get my fix any way possible, but luckly for me I am weening myself off the drug known as comics. But as long as the prices are low now, any hikes in the future, are none of my concern.

Independent booksellers being wiped out and the resultant near-monopolies in book retailing is only one potential problem (indies have largely moved away from best sellers as their focus already.) What Amazon and Walmart and Target are doing is devaluing the printed word, in a way not driven by rational reaction to natural consumer demand, but because they want to sell those same bargain hunters a 1080p big screen TV or a $500 Dyson vacuum cleaner. People already have a warped sense of the value of music and digital goods thanks to piracy on the internet. What happens after the sale, when people start thinking paying $20 for a new hardcover is too much?

I understand what you are saying, Larry King.

"As long as I get mine, screw everybody else."

The comic shops are NOT the ones that set the prices of the comics. They don't get any say in the price that is printed on the cover of the book, and there's not really a ton they can actually DO about it.

I ran a shop for 3 years. One of the oldest in the US, to be honest, having existed since 1975, where I ran it more or less from 2005-2008, and then left of my own accord. Do you know how razor thin the profit margin on a comic shop really is? It's REALLY small, and I defy you to find a single shop owner that got into it "for the money". The truth is that local shops can't afford to give you a giant-ass discount AND keep the doors open. It sucks, but that's the way it is.

Books are expensive to order too, especially when there's no guarantee that they'll sell. You order a book, put it on a shelf, and hope for the best. Because if you have a bunch of books that haven't sold, you can't exactly give them to the power company in lieu of actually paying the bill. So the best practice if you're running the shop is to order as much as you think you can sell, and then make special orders for the stuff that people want that you don't have. The problem, however, is that now there are all these book sellers like Amazon, Borders, etc that have cut these sweetheart deals with Diamond so that they can get as much product as they want, and then return what they don't sell (which the local comic shops don't get to do)...which means that often times, when I would order a book special for someone, Diamond didn't HAVE it. Because it was sitting on a shelf in a book store, and now I've lost that sale.

Comic book sales are a guessing game AT BEST to begin with. And while no shop is perfect, it's not nearly as much the fault of the shop as it is the virtual monopoly that has spring up around its distribution.

I was just surprised to see that there was 3,000 people that know how to READ in the Boston area! :-O

So because independent store owners can't create a a business model that's profitable, they go to Congress and ask them to legislate their business model into becoming profitable?

Hooray for capitalism.

Wait, what? Congress?

@ Alan Coil - You hit the nail on the head.

Wait, what? Congress?
Sorry, slip of the tongue. The government.

Actually, just ignore my posts.

I'm just tired of company's reaping all the profits they can, and then going to the government when they make losses. I don't think the Department of Justice will find anything illegal about Amazon's (and others) practices.

If small businesses can't compete with big businesses, they deserve to die. I have supported small businesses in the past. These businesses provided a service that was worth the higher price. Comic book stores don't offer such a service, so therefore they don't get my custom.

The idea of using the government to try to prop up a failing business is sickening unless we start socialising those profits as well.

And so I'm sure this will simply fail and Amazon, Walmart, etc will continue doing business as usual. Because finding ways to save costs and then passing some of those savings onto customers, SHOULDN'T be illegal.

Here's the real problem as it pertains to comics.

There is an exclusive distributor of mainstream comics in North America (Diamond Comics).

They have one set of terms for small retailers (non-returnable, 7 day terms), and another for big retailers (fully returnable, 90 day terms).

Rule number one of cashflow management is "Don't pay for anything before you get money", but Diamond doesn't offer small retailers that same luxury that they HAVE to offer the big boys.

Oh, and the best part? Guess who gets the returns from retailers? Yup, small retailers will get this damaged stock sent to them as "new stock".

If anything, it sounds like Diamond needs to be investigated.

The only way Amazon, Target or Walmart could be held accountable is if they paid Diamond money (either officially or unofficially) for giving small retailers a bum deal.

However Wikipedia cites various sources showing Diamond has "discriminated against small publishers" since 1988. As such I have a hard time Amazon is responsible for Diamond's current business practices.

Thinking "As long as I get mine, screw the little guy" is really the wrong way to go.

I will save the Justice Department some work right here.

The reason AMAZON, WAL*MART and TARGET can offer these low low prices is because of buying power.
They buy more than any other retailer can safely purchase and they are rewarded with very deep pricing cuts.

Diamond Distribution is the company that really needs to be investigated.
It was they who set the price range that is currently thinning out the comic buying market. How long will these prices last? As long as the market can support it.

Now from the business standpoint, I have a friend who has owned a shop for about 12.5 years. I used to work for him on Wednesdays when he first got started so he could get a feel for how to gauge what customers of his location where interested in.
The problem though is you have an almost guaranteed level of income based on subscribers. The regulars who have a pull sheet. With them you can get a good feel for what is popular based n how many copies of a book you generally stock for them.
Something is hot you order extra's. Problem with that is as follows. You order 25 copies of Ultimate Spidey and 20 of those go to subscribers. Well if the other 5 copies do not sell, Then you are out $10 at cost or $20 based off of potential profit.
That is just one book. Now figure there are about 30-50 titles released every week and start to add the numbers.
When you end up with 50-60 books a week you are basically taking away the wages of an employee.
there goes there job.
You are ending up unable to pay the electric bill or the water or the rent.
your credit is affected and then you have to make harder decisions.
Such as...Ordering only 1-2 copies above subscriber requests, or only ordering certain genres like Superheroes. This decision will cause a store to lose out on any potential profit gained from walk in traffic or from subscribers who would be inticed to pick up a different book.

Most stores do not order in large supply or even certain titles unless you subscribe because it greatly lowers the risk of financial loss.
In a comic shop, your profit and loss margin is as close as two sides of the same sheet of paper.

My friends store averages about $300 in losses a week just on comics. This does not include cards or accessories or figures statues etc...
My friend has everything in his store listed on ebay in order to increase his chances of selling items.
Problem with that is that the item may sell for the wholesale price. Before having to pay fee's to ebay or do the shipping.

All of these things have little to do with the retailer (my friend gives fantastic customer service) and more to do with the Distributor.

The Comic Companies put all of thier eggs into the direct market years ago. If the shops go under because of Diamond offering better deals to big box or online retailers, then the people who lose out are not just the guys who shop at the comic stores (They would not be able to buy weekly comics anymore) but it would have a massive effect on the publishers themselves because it would in the long run create an even narrower market for thier product.

They would have to rethink how they produce books which everything that would require would almost guarantee a financial loss.

So for those that only care for themselves and if they get theirs, think about the guy who loses his job because business drops. Or about the shop owner who loses their house because their store had to close down or had to learn a new career at age 60 because they have owned a comic shop for 10-20 years that was forced out of business by shady distribution practices.

With the economy in the situation that it is, causing people to make decisions on what they spend their money on, comic shops are already at the bottom of the list.

Hell I used to spend on average about $200 a month. And I got a 25% discount because of how much I spent. Now I spend about $20 a month. If that.
When the economy collapsed, My friend told me that over the first 2 months he lost about 48 of his regular subscribers.
That's roughly $5000 a month in economic loss by no fault of his own.

Support your local comic shop.

@Mike Wedner

I agree with everything you say, up until the "Support your local comic shop" line. You might as well ask me to walk into my local comic shop and hand them $10 for absolutely nothing. Because that's effectively what happens when I buy from a comic shop instead of Amazon. I throw $10 at the store, for nothing. Not a better service. Not a better product. Simply because they happen to have a brick and mortar store.

If you're friend can't work out how to become profitable, he deserves to have his doors closed. If this results in Marvel and DC closing their doors, then so be it. I'm not going to socialise an outdated system for nothing in return. If Marvel and DC are intent on allowing Diamond to put retailers and themselves out of business, then so be it. They clearly don't deserve to exist.

You also have to consider whether or not the printed medium will exist 100 years down the line. I personally think its on the endangered species list. Already we have the very first Color Ebook Reader in Japan (by Fujistu). Amazon is testing a webbrowser on their current ebook reader. Its only a matter of time until we get a color ebook reader that has a webbrowser.

At that point Marvel and DC will have to seriously consider whether or not they want to stay in business. Because Dan Didio has flat out refused to even consider selling comics digitally. If DC keeps that stance, they're going to have an uphill battle in staying in the publishing business.

Even if Marvel and DC do go out of business, the comic medium won't disappear. Already people are moving into the future and succeeding without getting into bed with these companies. These include Penny Arcade, Supernatural Law and Girl Genius.

Let's also not forget that both Marvel and DC have taken from the public domain, but have managed to keep most, if not all, of their work outside of the public domain. Perhaps the death of the traditional comics industry will signal that change is coming.

Or perhaps Marvel and DC will get their heads out of their arses and realise that Diamond is killing their business.

Either way, I refuse to socialise their losses when they hold onto their profits so tightly. And telling me to support local business for no reason except its location happens to reside near my home, that's definitely asking me to donate towards welfare for the company. Which I won't do. If they need it so much, they can close up shop and get the dole.

If they actually want my money, they better think of a way to entice me into their store. And they better think fast. Because as I said, I honestly believe their days are numbered.

@John Lynch

Wow. Ok, before I respond to what you wrote, I will give my outlook on a couple of points you brought up.

First of all I am all about saving a buck while getting similar convenience.
So I like Downloading games on demand on my xbox. I have NETFLIX on it so I can watch movies whenever I want without going to the store and possibly not being able to get what I wanted.
I have a ZUNE loaded with music and e-books

I even support the digital revolution as it is taking place.
How? Well I have been a professional artist for about 25 years. I am currently doing a comic to submit to ZUDA. If it doesn't make it there then I will put it on itunes and whatever other DL service supports that type of comic. Including a color Kindle device.
So in essence I can avoid all of the big publishers. Of course this has its disadvantages as well. Mainly from being able to maximize public perception and wide exposure of my product. I mean when you get down to it that is all a comic is, A product. a vehicle for making money.
The benefit also extends to other mediums that you can penetrate by involvement with larger companies.
That and the fact that I will get paid for all of my hard work is exactly why I am doing the comic for ZUDA-vs- some other online group. Because I mean, I love comics, but if I am investing that much time into creating it I plan on getting paid. I am an adult with adult responsibilities so I have to be realistic.

So that's out of the way, lets look at your post.

Support your local comic shop.
Now if you are someone that goes into a shop with your $10 and just grabs a couple of books off of the shelf, then well that is all you really deserve to get for that $10. Do you think a merchant should fall over himself to give you a huge discount because you show up whenever it may be convenient to buy 2-3 comics? If your getting 10% off for that be happy your getting it.
Like I said in my first post, discounts are based on buying power. That is why the three companies in the article are being looked at. The level of buying power makes it impossible for smaller businesses to compete. (notice I did not say -small- business) Businesses like national chain grocery or electronics stores are also negatively effected by the buying power of these giant companies.
Entire towns have closed their doors thanks to companies like Wal*Mart. ENTIRE TOWNS! That is not a joke or fabrication. That is the effect that a store that sells everything can have on numerous business's.

As a pro Artist who works for myself, I am not effected by the Wal*Marts and Amazons of the world.

Its not that my friend doesn't know how to make his business profitable by any means. the comic Industry is a niche market with a limited customer base and an even more limited number of buying locations.
So when a huge company is able to get a .25-$1.00 discount beyond what the comic stores can get themselves, It quickly effects the bottom line.
How can ANY business comic based or otherwise compete with that and still see an increase in profits?
Especially in a financial climate like the current one.

Marvel and DC are in the same boat. Remember, Marvel tried to break away from Diamond and distribute their own books.
That failed.
The other distributors that do exist, are relegated to the sidelines and even smaller customer interest bases because of the structure that Diamond has put into place. Marvel and DC are stuck because of this and they cannot get rates with these smaller groups better than Diamond gives them. And they are getting raped themselves.

[quote]
"You also have to consider whether or not the printed medium will exist 100 years down the line. I personally think its on the endangered species list."[quote]

No offense, but are you nukkin futs? The printed word or written word has been around for as long as recorded history. It will NEVER not exist. Like I said before, the Digital realm is great. but, in order for the digital realm to grow and flourish, you need a stable infrastructure to manufacture products and provide a form of electricity to function.
what makes you think that our excessively destructive society will exist in its current form even 5 years form now?
BTW, In order to have any kind of stable infrastructure you need to have brick and mortar businesses that employ people and sell products. That way tax's can be collected which support 100% everything necessary to maintain a stable infrastructure.
Currently the Digital retail market is unregulated meaning that tax's are extremely limited.

Here is an Art centered example: Digital Art-vs-Traditional Art.
Digital Art is created by the bucket load. amazingly beautiful work that sadly only exists digitally or on the limited lifespan of the printed page. a Drawing or an Oil painting on the other hand can exist 500-1000 years as proven by what we see in galleries and museums. those paintings can be discussed by people long after the death of the artist. Even 50,000 year old cave paintings painted with fruit juices still exist.
Digital painting on the other hand may be lucky if people remember it or the artist that created it in 50-60 years time. I hate saying that, but it is true.

A few nukes could knock out the ability to have electricity for 50 years across a huge area. By the end of that cycle people would likely have to relearn Basic Electronics and Electricity in order to get on the road back to what we have now.
That would be even worse for the comic Industry than putting their hopes into the direct market and dropping wide use of newsstand business.

[quote]
"At that point Marvel and DC will have to seriously consider whether or not they want to stay in business. Because Dan Didio has flat out refused to even consider selling comics digitally. If DC keeps that stance, they're going to have an uphill battle in staying in the publishing business."[quote]

At this point I agree with DiDio. why? Well, digital comics are not yet profitable. Most of them are created by people who do it as a hobby and are not making money from their work. From the standpoint of a large publishing business, this makes no business sense at all.
Once something is uploaded onto the net, it can be copied and stolen and then all of that hard work by all those involved is now lost. they can no longer profit from that work. (This is the primary reason why copyright laws are currently being revised on a large scale.)

ZUDA which is the digital arm of DC is not profitable. They pay their artists a good fair fee for the work unlike 99% of the web based companies do. But the site doesn't make money. DC is hedging their bets on those web comics being collected into trades and sold at brick and mortar stores.
So lets hope they don't collapse tomorrow.

Currently the Big publishers are testing the water of digital comics to find out how to make it a viable medium.

Another stopping point is that not everyone or every place has Internet support. That shrinks the market even more for Digital anything.
I mentioned xbox earlier. 1/2 of the functionality that I have available to me on that are not even available to people in the UK or Canada. Yet they have the same system as I do.
Now put that thought towards digital comics. Especially when you consider that they have to be translated into other languages. Currently, computers can only automatically translate HTML pages.

[quote]
"Let's also not forget that both Marvel and DC have taken from the public domain, but have managed to keep most, if not all, of their work outside of the public domain. Perhaps the death of the traditional comics industry will signal that change is coming."[quote]

What have thy taken? Public Domain simply means that something has passed beyond the limits of the current copyright. That doesn't mean that if you snatch it up you suddenly own it. It does however allow you to create NEW works based off of that thing and any portion of it that YOU managed to acquire at the same time.
It does not however allow you to republish existing material in any way that does not compensate the creator of the previous work.
MARVEL/DC keep their bread and butter in their possession to protect them against just such a situation.
That's just business.

finally, you mention -socializing- things. I don't mean to be insulting here, but you are not even using this in proper context.

Let me elaborate.

Your parents -socialized- you to live and function within your culture. Same thing all parents do.
when you go get a job. That on the job training is actually you being socialized into fitting into that environment for the benefit of the company you are now working for.

-Socialism- (which I think you were implying) is when the government takes over something and gets rid of profit and competition while providing an environment that puts everyone on a level playing field with no opportunity for individual growth.

The article we are commenting on has nothing to do with -Socialism- It does however ask the government to investigate or to provide -oversite- so that these big companies do not take advantage of consumers or the small businesses they support in an effort to grow the bottom line.

When Government Oversight is removed from businesses to a great degree, you end up with situations like our current Global economic crisis. Because the fact is, Big business doesn't care about people. They only care about personal profit. Therefore they will do whatever they can get away with to make that profit.

So Marvel and DC and the comic stores are doing the only thing within their power to combat it. And that is to get the Government to Investigate to decide if something needs to be done to enforce change.

Maybe they will get lucky and something will come of this.

Now please don't think I am being harsh to you or your views.
The fact is though that I have owned and operated Brick and Mortar stores for about 20 years. If you yourself have never been in that position, you simply have no Idea of what the amount of personal responsability and stress that can cause.
the current economic situation caused me to have to shut down my store back in January. It just stopped being profitable enough to pay the bills and employee's. Even though I was making money daily.

but closing it does not free you from the responsability of it.
Nope. In fact it was all I could do to get the Leasor to not sue me for the $22,000 remaining on my lease agreement. money I did not have but that they could legally go after by seizing my property which the only thing of value for them to go after would be my house.
That would have destroyed my credit and also increased my debt and made me homeless.

And that when you get down to it is the reason why you should support local business's Including your local comic shop.

Sorry that post is so long, but I promise it is worth reading

@Mike Wedmer

RE: $10 AT LOCAL COMIC SHOP

What I meant with giving the comic shop $10, was that I buy a book from Amazon and I save $10. So I then walk into the comic shop and just hand over those $10, for nothing. I'm not buying any books at the shop, I'm just giving them $10 for free. Because that's essentially what I'm doing when I buy a book from the shop instead of Amazon. I'm giving them extra money, for no improvement in service or product.

RE: COMPETING WITH ENORMOUS SAVINGS

Perhaps they can't compete. But I see no reason to give them money for not being able to compete. They shouldn't be rewarded for their decision to continue running a non-profitable business.

RE: PRINTED BOOKS

This is where we'll simply have to agree to disagree.

RE: PUBLIC DOMAIN

Using stuff from the public domain while never contributing to it is not ethical in my book. And thanks to companies like Disney, its quite likely we'll never see the modern culture enter the public domain.

Unless Congress suddenly becomes honest and decides to stop being bought off.

But honestly, how likely do you think that is? And so I will hold it against companies that use the public domain and yet contribute nothing.

@John Lynch

You do make some good points, and yes, Amazon does offer many of the same things that the local comic store does, service-wise.

But I'll disagree with you on a couple things.

1) Print won't die. When it becomes better, faster, easier, and cheaper to do digital and bring it around in as portable a fashion as paper, then it'll die - but that won't be for quite some time. Have you tried reading a book online, or on a smart phone? It's painful. Comics? Oh, yeah. They'll totally go digital. But then we miss out on the biggest reason why comics fandom exists; to feed the wants and desires of collectors and pack rats.

Tell me that you'll honestly be happier with a single iPod-like device that totes around all of your favorite comics, instead of shelves of Trades and long boxes filled with boarded classics. Convenience-wise, yes, you will; but you'll still have a spot in your heart for the feel of the paper, the smell of the ink, and so on. Please, tell me I'm wrong.

2) Amazon gives me straight-forward, logic-based recommendations. My local guys give me those, and the kind of left-of-center, holy-crap-I-would've-never-thought-of-that recommendations that have earned my trust and my dollars. They're courteous, friendly, great to talk to, and they run a clean shop. Amazon doesn't throw events, have signings, or anything like that. You could argue that this is being replaced by the convention scene, and chances are you would - you seem immovable on the position that the local comic shop deserves to die.

I see it more as something that still deserves to live.

@Brian St Claire.

1) We actually agree on this. You say print won't die, but then you outline the requirements that must be met for it to die. I'll be pleasantly surprised if print dies within my lifetime. But I won't be surprised if it dies within a generation or two after me.

Also you are wrong. I read comics in print only because I cannot get them legally through other means. Marvel's Digital Comics is a good start, and I subscribe to it eagerly. In fact I came to "traditional comics" from digital comics, because of the promise of Marvel's Digital Comics Unlimited. When that promise didn't arise, I began pursuing traditional comics through illegitimate means, before I finally switched to buying the books in print.

But don't confuse my willingness to buy books in paper as my preference. It isn't.

2) If you find value in those services, then more power to your store and I hope you continue to get them for many years to come. I don't, and so I don't invest in a store that throws those events. I've never said "I hope all comic stores have to close up shop." I have said "I believe their days are numbered" but that doesn't mean I want their days to be numbered. If Marvel and DC can cater to both me and those who like print comics bought through local stores, then hooray. That's the best of all worlds.

In fact, I recently replied to a thread that said Marvel would be delaying the release of softcover trades. Despite the fact trades are the main way I buy comics and that I do prefer the cheaper softcovers over the more expensive hardcovers. I do not hold any animosity towards Marvel for this decision. I realise that my methods of collecting comics results in less profit for Marvel and so I am happy for Marvel to attempt to increase its profits by increasing the perceived value of floppies and hardcovers. If Marvel does too much to inconvenience me, I'll simply stop buying their products.

I respect people's choice to buy their comics locally. All I ask is that I also be respected for my choice and businesses not run to the justice department simply because they can't compete.

@John Lynch; Have you ever run a business? Have you ever been in a position to actually be responsible for all of the things it entails?
I am going to guess the answer is no. If it was yes, your outlook would be more rounded and not so dismissive.

I agree with Brian that the social interaction with my fellow comics fans (at a store where anyone can physically join in is much better and enjoyable than being a cipher and only having my social Interaction of my hobby through the web.
Conventions have been going on since the mid 60's and they have not taken the place of everything.

Trades are really no cheaper than the comics as they are released. Luckily I still don't buy all of my stuff through trades.
I do follow certain series like The Walking Dead that way though.

comic shops will not die out and the public Domain as you obviously are trying to describe it is a non existant fantasy that never has and never will exist within the parameters that you describe.
And blaming it on Disney and Marvel is a joke because the way it is is the way it always has been. Since long before those companies even existed.

I think there's a bit of miscommunication here. The smaller retailers aren't asking for some kind of bailout because they can't compete. They feel, and I personally agree with them, that the larger stores are purposely trying to make them unable to compete...and the way they are doing it is (or at the very least should be, I'm no lawyer) illegal.

Just like the small kid who won't get any candy this weekend because some bully beats them up and takes it, they don't have the power individually to go up against that kind of bully. So what they're doing is getting together and telling the bully's parents what he's doing so they can put a stop to it.