Robot 6

Marvel offers retailers a ‘rare’ variant, in exchange for unsold DC comics

The rings from DC's "Blackest Night" promotion

The rings from DC's "Blackest Night" promotion

Just how successful was DC Comics’ highly publicized Blackest Night ring promotion? That’s what Marvel would like to know.

In an apparent attempt to find out, the publisher is offering direct-market retailers “an extremely rare” variant in exchange for covers from unsold copies of six titles linked to the DC promotion.

According to a press release sent this afternoon, for every 50 stripped covers Marvel receives by Feb. 16, retailers will qualify to receive one free Siege #3 Deadpool Variant.

The specified titles — Adventure Comics #4, Booster Gold#26, Doom Patrol #4, Justice League of America #39, Outsiders #24 and R.E.B.E.L.S. #10 — received significant sales boosts in November, thanks to a promotional incentive that allowed retailers who ordered a certain number of copies of each book to buy bags of the corresponding color plastic rings. For instance, for every 50 copies of Adventure Comics, retailers could buy two bags of blue rings, and for every 25 copies of Outsiders, they could buy two bags of violet rings.

In the case of a low-selling title like Booster Gold, the promotion meant an order increase of more than 35,000 copies over the previous issue. Critics at the time questioned how many of those would end up in the dollar bin. But a good number of fans and eBay sellers didn’t care — they were just happy to collect the plastic rings in Pokemon-like fashion.

The Marvel release notes that the offer isn’t a Diamond-affiliated promotion, and that the distributor shouldn’t be contacted. Instead, Marvel will get in touch with retailers once the publisher receives their submissions.

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Comments

194 Comments

I don’t know what kind of game Marvel is playing here. It strikes me as super-wasteful, for one, and it really bugs me that they’re doing this. Yes, it’s like, “Dude, DC, you just got called out!” but there are kids in impoverished areas who can’t afford comics that would love to read ‘em for free (even if they ARE DC comics, Marvel should have a heart, right?) or troops overseas who would kill for one comic book to break the monotony.

Either way I look at it, I can’t see how this isn’t petty, and I say this as a true, blue Marvelite.

Or, if Marvel is right, and it works, and all these DC titles get sent back and destroyed, that’s gonna make the remaining copies rarer than the Siege variant, isn’t it?

What a weird ploy.

Complete crap for requesting back R.E.B.E.L.S. and Doom Patrol. Those are awesome issues.

Marvel loves throwing stones in their glass house.

Interesting idea, but I don’t totally get the point, let’s see what happens.

Peace.

I think this is a weird, and ethically questionable, move by Marvel. Why doesn’t Marvel offer retailers a deal to return extra Marvel comics? Both Marvel and DC have promotions similar to that ring offer to get retailers to order more copies, so should DC now tell retailers to rip up extra copies of Dark Reign tie-ins to get something cool?

I think it is hilarious.

DC’s counter should be to offer a variant for titles returned with a Dark Reign banner.

Very funny.

Seems tasteless to me. It feels like Marvel is run by immature sixth graders at times…

A great thank you to comic shops would be lowering your prices back down to normal levels, Joe.

Mr. Quesada, if I had any respect for you then this would have lost it.

Even if the fans won’t thank you Joe I am sure the retailers will.

Mr. Quesada, if that’s the case, can you address the concerns posted in my first comment? I love your comics and characters to death, but this whole thing rubs me wrong.

I’m with Jack Thanite – Quesada, I didn’t think you could sink any lower, but you’ve proved me wrong. Yet again.

Hmm, let me look at my current pull list and see what Marvel books I can drop… out of the four titles of theirs I still bother reading, that is.

Seriously, utterly classless. And I see from the comments on at least two message boards, that’s the overwhelming consensus so far.

That wasn’t Joe Quesada who commented, only someone who thought he was being clever.

If Marvel was doing this to brand new DC comics it’d be morally questionable…but even though this is kind of dirty, yeah, it will give retailers a bit of a boost, and give Marvel a read on DC’s marketing gimmick with a creative gimmick of their own – interesting to see what pans out.

“That wasn’t Joe Quesada who commented, only someone who thought he was being clever.”

My apologies, then.

I like this move, it drives competition and helps out shops, while providing consumers with a little more info on the legitimacy of the sales numbers. Why is it a waste of comics or immoral in any way? If comics shops were going to give these comics away to impoverished kids or troops and this marvel promotion was trying to stop them from doing so that is one thing but that is not what Marvel is doing. Most shops, including the one I frequent, have tons of these comics left either on their shelves or in the long boxes and it is unlikely people will ever go back and buy them. My shop has an entire row of a shelf full of these unsold tie-ins. Everyone that would want these issues already has them so the opportunity for a comic shop to get rid of these books is a tremendous benefit to them. This isn’t a forced promotion either so if shops have other uses for the books Marvel is not preventing them from doing so. DC actually did something that hurt shops by requiring them to buy so many copies of books that most customers only wanted for the rings, which meant that they would have tons of copies left over. As crazy as Marvel’s Dark Reign tie-ins were, there was no requirement for shops to buy them in order to get a highly sought after item like the rings. If shops had tons of unsold Dark Reign tie-ins b/c of a Marvel promotion then including Marvel comics in this promotion would be justified but what Marvel comic do shops have that match the same number of unsold copies of these Blackest Night tie-ins? I actually usually read more DC comics than Marvel but this promotion puts a smile on my face. Doesn’t anyone else want to know, how many of these tie-ins were actually sold?

This is a punk move by Marvel.

Two things. One, I’m still not sure how I feel about this. It’s mean spirited and disrespectful, but it’s also funny as hell. Two, I’m still shocked by that ring photo — fake reflection that’s not even a reflection. Lame.

I can’t take my eyes off that awful non-reflection.

I’m pretty sure Marvel is just seeing how successful DC was at this to see if they can get away with doing something similar. I highly doubt it’s Marvel “calling DC out” as Hunter Lambright put it.

This is one way to try and gauge how inflated DC’s sales were dues to the ring promotion, if they were artificial or not. Marvel’s doing this to either show up DC, or figure out if they should try for a similar promotion.

While I agree with Hunter that the comics can be put to better use, the fact of the matter is most shops are too worried about their bottom line or haven’t thought about donating their comics before. I wonder if donating strip covered comics would be like giving away muffins without the tops?

I find this to be a completely classless move, by a completely classless company; one that is certainly to become even more classless when the talking heads over at Disney take over.

As a retailer, I find this to be borderline offensive. DC has proven time and time again to be extremely retailer friendly while the morons over at Marvel do nothing but over hype their product and rarely, if ever deliver. I don’t even have 50 copies of these books left in my shop and even if I did I wouldn’t trade a sack of cow manure for a Siege Deadpool Variant. I didn’t think you could make Siege suck twice, but adding Deadpool to it… well thank you Marvel for paving the way in the field of making bad comics even worse.

Perhaps giving me an opportunity to trade copies of Siege #1 in for a Deadpool variant might be something I’d be interested in, considering that book tanked and I have a ton of them sitting here collecting dust. Or maybe one of the what seems like a thousand Dark Reign books I have sitting on my shelves.

Once again, great job by Marvel. Maybe they should worry about the price point and quality of their own books instead of trying to get into a pissing contest with DC, who at least attempts to get it.

Scott Roberts:
No, people just want to attribute a devious underhanded personality to something in order to have something to gripe about.

This is beyond hilarious!

Hahahaha! Marvel OWNS DC.

Batman Loves Robin

January 13, 2010 at 5:03 pm

I went to my comic book store today and there must have been 30 copies of Blackest Night #6 just sitting there unsold.

I bought all those DC issues and got a different ring with each one. I enjoyed the comics and I have a neat set of lantern rings. I don’t get it.

Most of the shops in my area only offered the rings if you purchased the corresponding comic the rings came with.

There was one store selling the rings from $2 – $8 each and sold out. I could see that store being stuck with mounds of unsold DC product but I know they made nice profits on the rings. Now they can get a rare Marvel variant and make DC look bad in spite of making money off some plastic rings.

Is this all because a few DC titles are cracking the top ten? Marvel is still number one in market share and all that crap why do they care. Marvel’s being slightly childish and whiney over Blackest Night’s success.

God forbid you make better comics than Blackest Night and get your beloved top ten list back all to yourselves.

Blackest Night sucks so hard….

Just wanted to point out to the first poster that Marvel doesn’t want the actual comics, just the covers. The comics could still be passed on to soldiers, kids, libraries, etc. Basically the only people who would be too upset would be collectors who bag and board every issue.

I think it’s a clever move. If I’m not mistaken, all of the sales charts that come out are based on orders, not actual sales. This is a good way for Marvel to see if these kinds of promotions actually move product or if they’re just wasteful. Also, it will make them feel a little bit better about losing so many top spots in the charts these past few months. Of course, if my understanding of how the charts work, then just disregard this paragraph.

Well, I’m glad to see most posters feel the same way I do : that this is a tasteless counter move on Marvel’s part. I understand how and why they’re doing it, but it’s certainly does come across as punk. Marvel keeps driving me further and further away as DC continues to get stronger.

DC’s product is not only excellent, but they don’t seem to bully the market the way market leader Marvel does.

Less and less respect indeed.

My comic book guy gave me all the rings for free…..I didn’t even have to buy those shitty books.

Seriously, people, do you follow your first impulse to act emotionally about this without thinking or does everyone actively suppress any use of logic?

it’s more publicity crap from Marvel.

yes, Retailers had to buy the comics to be eligible to buy a bag of rings. . but most shops (at least the ones I’ve been to in Austin) required a purchase of the comic to get the ring.

they weren’t “giveaways”. . which is fine. But that means the books sold very well. So I doubt there are that many excess copies left for retailers to “trade”.

it’s just Marvel trying to get more publicity — as a Publisher should be doing.

too bad they aren’t doing it with thier own books. How about offering the special edition for stripped copies of the “One More Day” comics? I’ll bet there are a lot of those floating around.

Marvel is SCUM!!! I am dropping all of my Marvel books and I am never buying another book published by Marvel.

This includes my beloved X-Men.

Quesada is dirt.

DC needs to take this to another level.

“Joe H
January 13, 2010 at 5:10 pm
Seriously, people, do you follow your first impulse to act emotionally about this without thinking or does everyone actively suppress any use of logic?”

What is there to think about? Marvel is being scummy.

This is despicable. But there are 2 things that make this really sad:

#1) Notice how Marvel is pitting Seige (their main event book) against DC’s event tie-in books. If Marvel were really feeling froggy, they’d put that crap fest Seige against the main Blackest Night book. It’s a shame when your main book can’t even compete with your competitor’s tie-ins.

#2) If Marvel were really interested in helping retailers (not the fans, of course not), then they would be asking to reclaim some of their own garbage that continues to litter the shelves at everyone’s LCS.

Oh, and as a bonus point, it’s like they are asking people to turn in 50lbs of gold, for 1lb of monkey crap. C’mon, a Deadpool variant? They’re trying to selling us on a second-tier character? LMAO

Stripping unsold paperback books/magazines is something that happens all the time. It’s just that this time, it’s happening with material that doesn’t typically get stripped because it has collector’s value. Clearly Marvel doing this for some kind of research purpose, possibly to see if they should do their own collector promotion. I highly doubt they’re doing this to PWN DC or be wasteful or whatever.

And like someone said, they only want the covers–the retailers will probably end up giving the stripped copies away for free, so readers to read DC stories they otherwise wouldn’t be exposed to.

“Clearly Marvel doing this for some kind of research purpose, possibly to see if they should do their own collector promotion.”

Hey Joe Q! Do you really think the fans are going to buy that pitch?

HellBlazerRaiser:
areacode212 raises a perfectly rationale explanation. Really, it’s the only rationale explanation.

They are doing it because Marvel always hits below the belt.
“Research.” Bull$h!t!!!
Marvel takes pot shots.
Marvel has no class.

I know my lcs hasn’t received all their rings and told it could be 6 months.

He could potentially be out thousands with the extra order and no rings to show.

Maybe he can now get a little back!

This is awesome! Obviously one of the big shops mentioned to Marvel they have a surplus of these issues, I am assuming and Marvel went with it. Lmao.

“Batman Loves Robin
January 13, 2010 at 5:03 pm
I went to my comic book store today and there must have been 30 copies of Blackest Night #6 just sitting there unsold.”

That’s doesn’t speak to the perhaps hundreds that they’ve already sold.

The entire stunt is more Marvel nonsense. Any “results” that Marvel would claim would (hopefully) be dismissed as bull, since their scheme requires no verification by any party other than themselves.

Yeah, but I doubt they’re actually going to announce any kind of “results”.

So to all those who think this a great idea and helps retailers, why isn’t Marvel doing this for their own titles?

Do you think comic shops are not sitting on unsold Marvel titles?

I mean if they are doing research why not do research into their own. You know all the variant covers they are doing where the stores have to buy extra titles to get one?

If you were doing research would it not help to do research into your own promotions?

They’re not doing it to their own titles because Marvel isn’t in competition with themselves.

KJ Styles
January 13, 2010 at 4:54 pm

I find this to be a completely classless move, by a completely classless company; one that is certainly to become even more classless when the talking heads over at Disney take over.

Of course, “classless company” is redundant; they’re all in business to make money, not show class.

It’s merely an attempt to gauge the efficacy of the promotion, with a side effect of helping out your
poor local direct retailer. Note this won’t apply to newsstand issues, as they weren’t part of the
original DC promo.

Just remember this: no comics publisher ever owed the back-issue market collectors.

The Coyote Gospel

January 13, 2010 at 6:06 pm

I see where people find this distasteful, but I have to imagine that this was a little misconstrued. The people who have raised the idea of guerilla research are on the right track — I was shocked to see the numbers those books moved, but they’re clogging the shelves at my shop because fans were much more willing to buy the rings for a buck a piece.

If you think that Marvel is taking comics away from troops or kids, that isn’t the case. Have you picked up a modern comic book? We’ve got thousands of comics sitting around my workplace that we’re not allowed to give away because they’re not suitable for children. Remember that these are the Blackest Night tie-ins. Hearts ripping out, etc. — no kid or soldier needs these and no shop would send them anyway.

The Deadpool variant is hilarious — he’s a character with a lot of interest now and everyone knows that this is being done in humor. As I’ve become more involved in reading internet comments, I’ve seen that DC fans are much more vocal about criticizing Marvel than the other way around. Marvel fans are usually content to read the comics, ups and downs included. DC fans are so attached to their characters that they’re pretty willing to insult anything else.

This is the only way Marvel will know how this kind of promotion actually affected the book, but I imagine this was also a publicity bluff as well. Siege will sell, but this isn’t an event on the same level of Blackest Night. As a fan of both companies, I am glad. I’m sick of reading a bunch of books that are months behind on the gist of Blackest Night. When Marvel coordinates an event, books tend to use the ongoing themes to their benefit. When DC coordinates an event, we end up with incongruities and errors.

And really, the bottom line is that a very, very small number of shops is going to do this. Like, probably fewer than 50 shops will actually do this. I know I couldn’t bring a pair of scissors near a comic, no matter how little enjoyment I received from it. If you can’t take any sense of humor from moves like this, then go ahead and drop all of your Marvel books. You obviously didn’t care much about the characters or the amazing creators if this sent you away. Go pick up a few James Robinson books and enjoy yourself.

Dave H

but they are doing to help the stores. They want to help the stores.

As a fan of comics this low down and dirty on Marvels parts. I don’t know all the details but normally Marvel out sells DC anyway why bother giving them crap when they are leading for a change? I know people who would love to read Blackest Night but due to money issue’s they can’t, I bought two issue’s of Blackest Night # 6 cause it was leaked early and I read it online and I support the writers/artist who make my money worth while so I bought two copies.

That being said who’s ever idea this was what a low move. I hope things work out for the best and we fans don’t have to suffer thanks to some jerks great idea.

Hah…Marvel totally has NO IDEA what to do, now that DC has kicked their ass so thoroughly for the last three months (last Quarter of 2009).

They didn’t see this coming, and apparently have no clue how to react…given this immature reaction.

DC can totally use this for a massive retaliation. How about DC creates a special ring-holder, or new “White” Ring, or even a glow-in-the-dark ring….but only if retailers don’t order three or so titles Marvel is trying to push.

(ok, that was supposed to have some text delineating what was quoted by KJ Styles, and it didn’t work. My original text began with “Of course…”)

I knew DC fans were sensative,but dam….most of you are a bunch cry baby cowards. No wonder DC comics is a second hand company doing second hand level sales.

Beetleiii

Well, it IS helping the stores. There’s no denying that.

Anyone who’s trying to blame Joe Quesada for this automatically doesn’t count.

Really, people…He’s the EIC, he doesn’t control the entire company, as he’s stated numerous times. This move probably had nothing to do with Joe Q, but of course you freak-show nerd-ragers, who give the rest of us a bad name, have to go and demonize the man and blame him for every single thing Marvel does that you don’t agree with.

And I’m not being an apologist, either. I think this is an iffy move at best, but companies test their competition all the time; suddenly DC is making a lot of noise, and Marvel wants to know if it’s the giveaways or the books themselves that’s the cause. That’s all. They aren’t telling people to burn their DC collection, just to remove the covers and send them in. Big deal.

I’m not certain how actual comic shops deal with unwanted back-issues, but I know for a fact that – and this was at least 15 years ago – the few places in my hometown that sold comics such as the pharmacy and grocery stores, could remove the covers and send them back to the distributor for a refund. I know this because a friend and I used to dumpster-dive for the unwanted, coverless books and read to our heart’s content. I’m not sure if this is still the practice, but it’s not like it’s unheard of.

Also…if all of these Retailers cared so much about the troops, the homeless, etc. they would have been donating their unwanted books on their own merit, and still can, not just because Marvel are being “scummy” and now they suddenly feel obligated. Get off your high-horses. If you want to do the right thing, by all means go do the right thing. Or they can stuff all the unsold books into dollar bins and prey to god they sell before the market re-crashes. Either way, you guys should REALLY try to think things through before pointing fingers and shouting.

Joe Quesada may have killed your precious, pathetic Spider-Marriage, but for god’s sake, if he was truly behind every single thing you people blame him for, he’d have to have at least three clones, each of whom never sleep.

I’m not saying it ain’t possible, just sayin’. Get over it.

Thank you Joe H! I can see this for research purposes. Yes, in the past Marvel had the majority of the top ten until Blackest Night and other DC titles came along.

Don’t get me wrong, I am a fan for both DC and Marvel…if DC did the same I would not be upset. Dude, It’s all business. It appears that it’s the fans that only spit venom at any publishing company that does something like this.

Sorry for the Moore reference. ;)

Any retailer who charges for those rings needs to be waterboarded.

“Alex
January 13, 2010 at 6:09 pm
I knew DC fans were sensative,but dam….most of you are a bunch cry baby cowards. No wonder DC comics is a second hand company doing second hand level sales.”

It’s called loyalty to the brand.
Just like I won’t cross a picket line and won’t patronize businesses that use non-union carpenters, so to will I now cease support of Marvel.

bluebeetleiii: Maybe because variant covers have been around for a long time, so they probably have an idea of how well they do. The DC ring promotion is pretty unique and recent, so presumably, they want to get some idea of how well the books sold vs. how many were ordered, or whatever. All this will probably end up in some marketing guy’s spreadsheet.

What Marvel should have done is made a Deadpool ring to go with the DC ring collection

I find it laughable that some people are worked up about this. Marvel is needling DC for making retailers order exaggerated numbers of lower-tier books, many of which remain on store shelves. It’s silly, but nothing to get passionate about.

If you’re a consumer and don’t like it, don’t buy the stupid variant issue. If you’re a retailer and don’t like it, don’t send them comics and encourage future promotions like this. Let the market determine whether such stunts are worthwhile to Marvel and/or retailers.

I retract my initial comment. I was reacting with my gut and not my head.

bluebeetleiii asked:

“So to all those who think this a great idea and helps retailers, why isn’t Marvel doing this for their own titles?”

Because Marvel doesn’t take returns on their product.

“Rich
January 13, 2010 at 6:20 pm
If you’re a consumer and don’t like it, don’t buy the stupid variant issue.”

I’m a consumer and I’m dropping everything Marvel.

Alan Coil

So they aren’t really doing for the stores then anyway. There is no noble reasons for this.

Alex
And I am sure if DC did this the Marvel fans would be happy about this and not saying one bad word

Nerds: “WAT”

Marvel: “Thanx 4 tha bank”

To “BIG MONEY”:

Anyone who’s trying to blame Joe Quesada for this automatically doesn’t count.

Really, people…He’s the EIC, he doesn’t control the entire company, as he’s stated numerous times. This move probably had nothing to do with Joe Q, but of course you freak-show nerd-ragers, who give the rest of us a bad name, have to go and demonize the man and blame him for every single thing Marvel does that you don’t agree with.

#1) You need to find out what an EIC does, because clearly you don’t know.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Editor_in_chief
An editor in chief (also called editor-in-chief and executive editor) is a publication’s primary editor, having final responsibility for the operations and policies.

#2) From the Newsarama site:

Address To Send Submission:
James Nausedas
Marvel Entertainment, LLC
417 Fifth Avenue, 10th Floor
New York, NY 10016

I’ll bet my Blackest Night ring collection, that “James Nausedas” is just an anagram for Joe Q.

#3) You are clearly trying to defend the defenseless, when you don’t even know if he’s responsible or not. Thanx for playing, come again soon, y’hear?

“And I’m not being an apologist, either. I think this is an iffy move at best, but companies test their competition all the time; suddenly DC is making a lot of noise, and Marvel wants to know if it’s the giveaways or the books themselves that’s the cause. That’s all. They aren’t telling people to burn their DC collection, just to remove the covers and send them in. Big deal.”

Actually, what they are doing, is snatching the material away from the competitor. It’s not “iffy”, it’s just plain dirty. It’s like Marvel is the proverbial washed up heavyweight fighter, who knows they can’t beat their oppononent, so they slip something in the opponent’s water between rounds. How lame can you get. And by “you”, I don’t mean Marvel, I mean “YOU” for even trying to defend them.

“I’m not certain how actual comic shops deal with unwanted back-issues, but I know for a fact that – and this was at least 15 years ago – the few places in my hometown that sold comics such as the pharmacy and grocery stores, could remove the covers and send them back to the distributor for a refund. I know this because a friend and I used to dumpster-dive for the unwanted, coverless books and read to our heart’s content. I’m not sure if this is still the practice, but it’s not like it’s unheard of.”

Thanx for admitting that you are totally clueless, then. Since comic shops and large bookstore chains (and very few of those) are the actually the only ones that sell comics nowadays, issues are put into back issue bins.

You should actually try READING a comic sometime, before you rant at the rest of us about them.

Also…if all of these Retailers cared so much about the troops, the homeless, etc. they would have been donating their unwanted books on their own merit, and still can, not just because Marvel are being “scummy” and now they suddenly feel obligated. ”

Wow, what a dumbass.

There’s no such thing as “unwanted books” in comic shops. They’re called BACK ISSUES.

“Get off your high-horses. If you want to do the right thing, by all means go do the right thing. Or they can stuff all the unsold books into dollar bins and prey to god they sell before the market re-crashes. Either way, you guys should REALLY try to think things through before pointing fingers and shouting.”

Yeah, you are the shining example for all of us to follow, yes?

“Joe Quesada may have killed your precious, pathetic Spider-Marriage, but for god’s sake, if he was truly behind every single thing you people blame him for, he’d have to have at least three clones, each of whom never sleep.

I’m not saying it ain’t possible, just sayin’. Get over it.”

So uhmmmm, what was your rant really about?

“Marvel is SCUM!!! I am dropping all of my Marvel books and I am never buying another book published by Marvel.

This includes my beloved X-Men.

Quesada is dirt.

DC needs to take this to another level.”

I love comic book fans.

This isn’t market research. Direct Market = no returns. Sales through to the customer don’t matter to the industry, just the retail orders. And the Diamond numbers are readily available. So what does it matter if DC sold these books through to tens of thousands of customers? That’s the retailers problem. Whether retailers sell one copy or all their copies, DC still made their money.

Why does Marvel care if DC’s numbers were “inflated”? This is an industry that asks retailers to purchase 100′s of copy for a rare variant unfinished…excuse me…sketch cover. Did Marvel ask for all the unsold Batman & Robin #1′s? If Marvel was so worried about “inflated” numbers, then why throw “Dark Reign” on as many titles as possible? That inflates the numbers just as much as a stupid plastic ring.

Screw Marvel for making me talk about Blackest Night in an ancillary fashion.

Heaven with a gun

January 13, 2010 at 6:35 pm

All I know is when I was a kid it was the fun of DC vs. Marvel and vice-versa.
This is a fun little thing Marvel is doing. DC should do something similar or different as a counter to this for every Siege tie-in/spin-off not sold.
Geez, remember when comics used to be about FUN!? ;)

I’m passionate about my hobby that costs me quite a few dollars each week.
Where’s the problem?

There’s no problem, you’re just funny.

Read my blog. I have a funny post or two there. :)

This is disgusting. Destroying perfectly good comics for a marketing ploy.

Hopefully retailers have more brains. If they want to get rid of product, donate them to third world countries.

At least there they’ll be appreciated and cherished, not treated like garbage.

I’d like to know how many people getting upset that these comics aren’t being sent to 3rd world countries and poor children could tell me the significance of the letters F.A.R.C without looking it up first.

The Coyote Gospel
January 13, 2010 at 6:06 pm
I see where people find this distasteful, but I have to imagine that this was a little misconstrued. The people who have raised the idea of guerilla research are on the right track — I was shocked to see the numbers those books moved, but they’re clogging the shelves at my shop because fans were much more willing to buy the rings for a buck a piece. ”

That just means that the retailers went about it the wrong way. They opted for a buck, when they coulda have at least $4 bucks. Your LCS is ran by a bunch of idiots. Mine sold out of all the corresponding issues to their respective rings.

“If you think that Marvel is taking comics away from troops or kids, that isn’t the case. Have you picked up a modern comic book? We’ve got thousands of comics sitting around my workplace that we’re not allowed to give away because they’re not suitable for children. Remember that these are the Blackest Night tie-ins. Hearts ripping out, etc. — no kid or soldier needs these and no shop would send them anyway. ”

Yep, you’re right…. Especially when these LCS’s can actually SELL the issues to these same kids and troops, which they do on a regular basis. Go to the LCS’s in or near military towns, and see what the troops are buyin’ these days. It sure as hell ain’t anything Marvel’s putting out.

“The Deadpool variant is hilarious — he’s a character with a lot of interest now and everyone knows that this is being done in humor. ”

Who’s “everyone”, besides you? Besides, Deadpool isn’t nearly as popular as to derail the most popular event in comics, for the past 10 years.

“As I’ve become more involved in reading internet comments, I’ve seen that DC fans are much more vocal about criticizing Marvel than the other way around. Marvel fans are usually content to read the comics, ups and downs included. DC fans are so attached to their characters that they’re pretty willing to insult anything else.”

Clearly you’re biased, with a jaundiced view. Marvel fans are just as adamant at insulting the opposing company is, as DC fans are. But the issue isn’t the fans, it’s the creators. Joe Q is infamous for making all sorts of ass-inine comments in public. I can’t recall if/when Dan Didio has ever done that.

“This is the only way Marvel will know how this kind of promotion actually affected the book, but I imagine this was also a publicity bluff as well.”

That’s merely your opinion. Plus, DC’s not running any sort of “querilla marketing”, or whatever someone here called it. Just sell your books, and don’t worry about your competitor. But of course, that’s too much like right. Only the loser is worried about what the winner is doing.

” Siege will sell, but this isn’t an event on the same level of Blackest Night. ”

You’re right, it’s not. But that’s the difference in quality between the 2 events.

“As a fan of both companies, I am glad. I’m sick of reading a bunch of books that are months behind on the gist of Blackest Night. When Marvel coordinates an event, books tend to use the ongoing themes to their benefit. When DC coordinates an event, we end up with incongruities and errors.”

What the hell books from DC have you been reading? Everything BN related has been shipping on time, more or less. The stories all line up. It’s been virtually seamless.

“And really, the bottom line is that a very, very small number of shops is going to do this.:

Beside the point. It’s unethical that Marvel would even suggest this.

” Like, probably fewer than 50 shops will actually do this.”

You mean, besides the shops that have sold out from most of their BN material?

“I know I couldn’t bring a pair of scissors near a comic, no matter how little enjoyment I received from it. If you can’t take any sense of humor from moves like this, then go ahead and drop all of your Marvel books. You obviously didn’t care much about the characters or the amazing creators if this sent you away. Go pick up a few James Robinson books and enjoy yourself.”

Okay, thanx, I’ll do just that. But for the record, its not me that doesn’t care about Marvels characters (well actually I really couldn’t give a flip about them), but rather it’s Marvel that doesn’t care about them. If you believed in your own product, you wouldn’t have to stoop to such a low tactic.

Heaven with a gun

January 13, 2010 at 6:48 pm

I’d love to see a report of some anonymous DC person sending a garbage bag full of colored Lantern rings to Marvel! lol!
Then Marvel sends a bunch of disembodied Mego Spidey heads to DC.
A war of weirdness! ;)

Heaven with a gun

January 13, 2010 at 6:50 pm

You know, seriously and with all due respect, I hardly think the children (or people at all) in Haiti are even the slightest bit concerned with comics right now.

Who was that a response to?

If that was to me,

A)You’re thinking of Columbia, FARC wise

B)I’m trying to point out how hilarious the priorities of the furious commentators here are.

Heaven with a gun
January 13, 2010 at 6:50 pm
You know, seriously and with all due respect, I hardly think the children (or people at all) in Haiti are even the slightest bit concerned with comics right now.”

Your point? Are you trying to goad us into guilt, or yourself?

Unless you’re ready right now, to hop the first plane to Haiti, then last I checked, you’re right here with us, on a shameless comic site, cracking jokes.

I’m so sick of Marvel. They’ve ruled in sales for the last couple years but the tide is turning. DC is putting out far better comics and their trying out new things like this ring promotion. I could care less bout the rings(sorry not my style) but just like Wednsday Comics even though I didn’t pick either up it’s still nice to see DC mixing it up. I personnally love th specials they do 2 to 3 times a year like Faces of Evil, Origins & Omens, and this most recent January revival of old series. When was the last time Marvel did something like that? The only thing that came close recently was Wolverine appreciation month (like he needs more attention) and did anyone really care bout that? I’d have to ask if this is even legal? Unless Marvel pays for these comic books DC/comic book stores would lose money from this not to mention it’d handicap DC’s sales chart for the month. Even if (and that’s a big if) the Deadpool varient goes for 12 bucks that’s only worth 3 to 4 tie-in issues so would the stores even make their money back? This just seems like a desperate move to me. Marvel is realizing that their losing momentum. Over the last 2 years they’ve done alot of things wrong. They let Jeph Loeb destroy the entire Ultimate universe, they caused JMS to leave, cancelled Iron Fist, Agents of Atlas, Captain Britain, and She-Hulk (which all had non-mainstream cult followings), did One More Day which lost some Spidey fans (Though it’s increased in sales and I still read it), gave us a million good guys are bad guys/bad guys are good guys storylines, and they’ve copied DC a ton of times…I know they both do it but it was far more obivous Marvel was doing it with X-Men Necrosha, Captain America’s revival, and Siege (Mysterious land suddenly appears on Earth? Check. Hero torn between two worlds? Check. Earth led astray by an evil leader? Check. Nation full of super human/godlike beings? Check. Is it just me or does this sound alot like the World of New Krypton storyline?). They may try to justify it by saying the Batman storyline and the New Krypton War haven’t happened yet but it was quite obvious for months before Marvel did their stories that Batman was lost in time and New Krypton would go to war with Earth. I honestly think it’s time for a change at Marvel. They need a new Editior. I was behind Joe Q when he first came in cuz of his hand in the creation of the Ultimate universe but it’s been 10 years now and it seems like he’s lost touch with what fans want since then. Yeah I agree with you guys that Marvel acts like a Deadpool varient is the Holy Grail or summin. I liked Deadpool before it became vogue but Marvel has been shoving him down our throats like Wolverine. 3 ongoings in a year? Are you kiddin me? I love Daniel Way’s Deadpool but who reads those other crappy series? I tried but their mostly garbage. Hunter has a good point too. Most likely these books will be thrown out after Marvel estimates sales based on them. That’s pathetic. If they had a heart they’d donate those to shelters, foster homes, and send some overseas to our boys in uniforms. If they do i’ll apologize for that at least but I still think this is very shady..

The poster who suggested that Marvel should instead take returns of their own titles is 100% on the ball – if this was truly being done for altruistic reasons, that would be the logical route to take, rather than this typically sensationalistic and frathouse rubbish.

You know what DC should do? Continue to take the high road and do just that – offer retailers a special variant for the return of some of THEIR books and show their competitors how it SHOULD have been done.

Heaven with a gun

January 13, 2010 at 7:06 pm

Not really a response to anyone. Just read the other comments of sending comics to those other countries and watching what’s hit Haiti.
Don’t take it wrong but I’m finding a bit of humor in the anger over this topic and there are more pressing concerns in the world better suited to unleash that anger over.
Those poor people in Haiti have more pressing matters than we do as some of us complain over this.
We obviously have to count our blessings. ;)
I found this article rather fun and am not about to try and boycott Marvel or drop their books I buy over this.
If anyone else wants to that’s their choice, but it’s not like it’s 9/11 part II.

How is this Joe Quesda’s doing? i thought he handles creative not business at marvel. If you don’t like the move fine but don’t just blame joe for no reason.

Plus no one knows what this is about. Marvel could be trying to do a promotion similar to the ring one and hell that’s cool. give me free stuff all you want. its a knee jerk reaction to just assume this is negative.

Heaven with a gun

January 13, 2010 at 7:10 pm

@Samurai
I gave and will continue to give to help Haiti.
And yes, I’m here posting just as the rest of you. You can contrive it as me guilting you and others or myself all you want, but that’s not the case.
My point is that this issue isn’t as pressing an issue. There are other things in this world to be angry over.
This is my last post. Thanks!

Yeah, send the comics to Haiti

“Freddy
January 13, 2010 at 7:07 pm
How is this Joe Quesda’s doing? i thought he handles creative not business at marvel. If you don’t like the move fine but don’t just blame joe for no reason.”

Because, it’s the 10th floor of the Marvel building. I’m betting that that’s not the accountant’s office.

“Freddy
January 13, 2010 at 7:09 pm
Plus no one knows what this is about. Marvel could be trying to do a promotion similar to the ring one and hell that’s cool. give me free stuff all you want. its a knee jerk reaction to just assume this is negative.”

How exactly is that cool? You do a promotion at the expense of hurting your competitor’s sales? That’s cool to you?

I’m having trouble figuring out what kind of data Marvel could possibly get from retailers sending covers of Blackest Night tie-in covers. Since it’s not mandatory and they don’t necessarily know how much each retailer ordered to begin with, I’d say the sampling process would throw off any sort of results Marvel may get.

This does seem more like a publicity stunt than anything else.

“Not really a response to anyone. Just read the other comments of sending comics to those other countries and watching what’s hit Haiti.
Don’t take it wrong but I’m finding a bit of humor in the anger over this topic and there are more pressing concerns in the world better suited to unleash that anger over.
Those poor people in Haiti have more pressing matters than we do as some of us complain over this.
We obviously have to count our blessings. ;)
I found this article rather fun and am not about to try and boycott Marvel or drop their books I buy over this.
If anyone else wants to that’s their choice, but it’s not like it’s 9/11 part II.”

Well, it sounds like we’re on the exact same page!

To the “send-the-comics-to-Haiti” crowd — don’t Haitians tend to speak either French or Haitian Creole? Those comics would be in English, of course.

“HellBlazerRaiser
January 13, 2010 at 6:35 pm

I’m passionate about my hobby that costs me quite a few dollars each week.
Where’s the problem?”

Why would you drop a favorite (X-Men) because of some marketing, research or even just a messed up idea?

I love Green Lantern and Geoff Johns’ work but if DC did something similar I wouldn’t drop those titles.

The Coyote Gospel

January 13, 2010 at 7:18 pm

SAMURAI36, you’re such a great debater. Oh wait, I tuned out after you suggested that James Nausedas, who works in Sales and Communications, by the way, is a fake name for Joe Quesada. And thanks for insulting ym local shop for not pushing books that came out around Blackest Night #5 and dealt with ideas from the first issue. This is what I meant. It has not been seamless, as anyone reading the main event moved beyond the “Ooh, scary, it’s a zombie _____” long before the tie-ins forced the same tactic. It’s all business, but it can be all fun. Or you can throw fits and insult people who feel differently than you. Screw it. It’s comments like these that keep me away from news sites. I’m sick of having my enjoyment and involvement in a medium brought down by people online who throw out criticism and common sense because of vendettas and rage. There’s plenty of unwanted material at comic shops, but I’d rather read every back issue in my state than read this drivel from you and your like any longer.

Rich
January 13, 2010 at 7:17 pm
To the “send-the-comics-to-Haiti” crowd — don’t Haitians tend to speak either French or Haitian Creole? Those comics would be in English, of course.

Not to mention, for the life of me, I can’t figure out how comics is the thing they need right now. I mean, as a person of Caribbean descent myself, I deeply empathize with them. But beyond the donations I’ve made, I really don’t see the point of confusing the 2 issues here.

Darkknight617us

January 13, 2010 at 7:21 pm

Is it me or do I see a secondary ploy by Marvel to circumvent Diamond in this “marketing”? Not only will Marvel get an estimate of what DC is doing for sales (so what), but, they generate a direct retail list. Now, as Disney is now the parent company, how long do you think they would be content in letting Diamond dictate distribution?

The Coyote Gospel
January 13, 2010 at 7:18 pm
SAMURAI36, you’re such a great debater. ”

Flattery will get you no where.

“Oh wait, I tuned out ”

And yet, here you are. The irony of it all, hurts so much.

“….after you suggested that James Nausedas, who works in Sales and Communications, by the way, is a fake name for Joe Quesada.”

My point is, you don’t think Joe Q signed off on this? That he had no say in this dirty act? Unlike you, most people have never heard of James N. But they have heard of Joe Q, as he is the face of the company, and therefore would take the blame for this stunt.

“And thanks for insulting ym local shop for not pushing books that came out around Blackest Night #5 and dealt with ideas from the first issue.”

Actually, that’s not why I insulted your comic shop…. I insulted them for selling the rings for a buck, which was a stupid move, when they could have sold both the rings AND the books that came with them, as the promotion was meant to be.

“This is what I meant. It has not been seamless, as anyone reading the main event moved beyond the “Ooh, scary, it’s a zombie _____” long before the tie-ins forced the same tactic.”

Uhhmmm, what? So, it’s not “seamless”, because you’re not enjoying the story? LOL, thanx for clarifying.

“It’s all business, but it can be all fun. Or you can throw fits and insult people who feel differently than you. Screw it. It’s comments like these that keep me away from news sites. I’m sick of having my enjoyment and involvement in a medium brought down by people online who throw out criticism and common sense because of vendettas and rage. There’s plenty of unwanted material at comic shops, but I’d rather read every back issue in my state than read this drivel from you and your like any longer.”

Alrighty then. Well…… Bye!!

“Rufus
January 13, 2010 at 7:17 pm
Why would you drop a favorite (X-Men) because of some marketing, research or even just a messed up idea?”

Because this is a scummy move and I can’t support a company that is this blatantly scummy.
Keep the scumminess behind closed doors.

I think this will be awesome if DC counters by offering FANS a DC comic for say 25 useless Marvel event tie-in issues. Wouldn’t even need to be a variant, say maybe a copy of Jona Hex #50?
Shoot I would trade all my Secret Invasion stuff for a Vigilante #12

HellBlazerRaiser
January 13, 2010 at 7:27 pm

“Rufus
January 13, 2010 at 7:17 pm
Why would you drop a favorite (X-Men) because of some marketing, research or even just a messed up idea?”

“Because this is a scummy move and I can’t support a company that is this blatantly scummy.
Keep the scumminess behind closed doors.”

So if DC did the same, you would respond in kind?

The really sad thing about all of this, is that all this week, DC has been putting out amazing news:

*The return of BOP
*Brightest Day
*JLI: Generation Lost

etc, etc…. And the week isn’t even over yet, and they’ve promised more news.

While the only Marvel news is, the return of a second tier X character, and of course, this. Wow.

So even if this was a joke, A) It wasn’t funny, and B) It was lame in comparison to the what the competitor has going on.

Figured i would put my two cents so: What a pathetic thing to do I guess it just shows people what a “classy” company Marvel has become raising prices for no reason and now this.

I am really sick of Marvel’s gimmicks outside this. Do they do stuff like this before, because I don’t remember anything like it. I am really sick of Marvel’s lack of creative direction over the past few years basically because they offered fans big huge stories that never paid off or were even just big fake outs like the ‘Clone Thor’ that and everything else in Civil War just seemed like a high concept done so poorly I even wondered if it was intentionally bad. I haven’t read a Marvel book in months and this makes me want to read them even less.

Ok first off i would like to say, out of all the comics Marvel is asking for i bought one, and i never got a ring with the purchase of that particular comic. In fact my retailer got all his rings at one time and basically said they are first come first serve. No one who buys comics at my comic shop had to buy those titles…atleast for the 7 or 8 i have talked to. I got my rings, Marvel wants those back issues let them have them. I like both DC and Marvel, and i don’t really see the problem in this. Yeah its kinda weird but oh well. I’m not gonna drop my Marvel titles over this mess. My love for both companies will stay the same…even if both are getting a little event heavy.

I remember at a Con, Joe Q. said “DC has Batman and Superman…. That’s like having the biggest dick in porn, and not knowing what to do with it”. And he said it during a panel with kids there.

This is reminiscent of that kind of tasteless mentality.

Y does evryone NOT get the Ryan Reynolds Joke here?

I’m inclined to believe the person who said John Nausedas is an alias for Quesada. Quesada/Queasy Nausedas/Nausea. That’s not a stab at the man, it just makes sense.

However, this is a stab at the man: This is the most classless, pro-wrestling, insane clown posse, BS nonsense tact I’ve ever seen taken by a public company. They should be ashamed of themselves. Make mine anything but Marvel for a while.

I say good for Marvel…let the shops get something for spending all that money on books that aren’t selling.

As many have stated, DC should do the same exact thing.

“Rufus”
January 13, 2010 at 7:36 pm

‘”Because this is a scummy move and I can’t support a company that is this blatantly scummy.
Keep the scumminess behind closed doors.”‘

“So if DC did the same, you would respond in kind?”

I can’t answer that. I don’t know what I would do in any given situation until I’m actually in that situation.

>>>Is it me or do I see a secondary ploy by Marvel to circumvent Diamond in this “marketing”? Not only will Marvel get an estimate of what DC is doing for sales (so what), but, they generate a direct retail list. Now, as Disney is now the parent company, how long do you think they would be content in letting Diamond dictate distribution?<<<

It is you.

Marvel knows EXACTLY what DC's sales are on these comics by comparing their sales figures with those of DC on the monthly charts.

Marvel already has the name & information for 99.5% of the retailers in the US — they're not only not idiots, but they've been doing this for a long time in the Direct Market.

Diamond doesn't "dictate" ANYthing to Marvel — Diamond is Marvel's Sales Agent, and what Marvel says (up to specific contractual points) goes.

-B

“I remember at a Con, Joe Q. said “DC has Batman and Superman…. That’s like having the biggest dick in porn, and not knowing what to do with it”. And he said it during a panel with kids there.

This is reminiscent of that kind of tasteless mentality.”

He said it in a magazine interview, actually, but, you know. I think facts have sort of flown out the window 110 comments in anyway.

I promised myself I wouldn’t wade into this, but I do have to clarify something:

I’ll bet my Blackest Night ring collection, that “James Nausedas” is just an anagram for Joe Q.

There is no “Q” in “Nausedas.”

Quesadas doesn’t have anything to do with this level of marketing. Neither does Dan Didio. Both have said so repeatedly. Anyone who believes differently is just fooling themselves. You can rail against the marketing departments as much as you want, but blaming this on editorial is just unproductive.

nice photoshop disaster there with the rings…

(the reflection of the rings should be upside down)

So, did Joe Q. also create a fake Facebook profile for James Nausedas, as well as one for his fictional father, all as part of his eeeeevil master plan to screw with DC?

Who is Ryan Reynolds?

Rich said:

“Marvel is needling DC for making retailers order exaggerated numbers of lower-tier books, many of which remain on store shelves.”

Similar to what Marvel did with that 1-for-250 variant some time ago.

You have completely stupped to an all time low!!!!
No scrupples and the lowest point in your history!!
Desperate…I will never buy another thing with
your name on it and I will pass the word around
that you have asked people to destroy other retailers
comics for your own gain…NO CLASS!

DISGUSTING!!!!!!

Man, gotta tell you that today’s comic book fans are pure SUCKERS for getting so worked up that they’re doing a comic publisher’s marketing work for them. And yeah, it seems like there’s a bunch on here that need to untwist their panties out of their rears, for getting so upset about a promotion that doesn’t even concern them, but comics shop owners.

The nerdrage is pretty funny. Some of you people are pathetic!

I agree, there’s no reason to get upset. If the titles DC ever get that popular, old issues may get reprinted. Less price value for us, but more money for DC. No one really losses :D

I stopped buying Marvel sometime during Secret invasion what a pile of crap that was. But yeah DC wins in my book even if this goes through it just makes Marvel look bad instead of DC. Yeah I see no reason to get angry I mean Marvel must have been desperate if they let Disney buy them up they are in the same boat now, WB owns DC comics now Disney owns Marvel comics what comes around goes around. You never know this move might cause Marvels Siege event to gown down, and Blackest Night might get more customers come issue # 7 heck issue # 6 might totally sell out this week who knows. My point is everyone calm down stuff happens just let this roll over.

This has been an entertaining read I gotta say, been cracking up from some of the stuff on the boards. Personally I cant say I care either way, if a company puts a crap product on the shelves I don’t buy it, so if it stays on the shelves or gets burned in a trash can, doesn’t make a bit of difference to me. In the end fierce competition eventually benefits the consumer so we’ll see how this works out in the end. But for all the posters raggin on Jim, he’s a real person (and one of the nicest guys I’ve had the pleasure of working with) and he definitely doesn’t deserve a lot of the heat he’s getting (and I don’t envy his next couple of weeks at work).

All that said, support who you like, buy the books you want, cause the only way to send any message is through the $bottom line$, cause those are the only messages any of the bigwigs read anyway.

You gotta love comic book fanboys. Yee gosh, guys! I mean, come on! Knee jerk reaction much?

Did anyone even think that this may be a good thing for the stores, DC and comic books in general?

Let’s see, what exactly is Marvel asking for? The covers to these selected issues. The COVERS people! As mentioned previously the only people that should be upset with that are the collectors (who by now should have their 3 copies all bagged, boarded and locked away in an airtight storage facility).

This means that the stores can do whatever they want with the coverless stories right? Like say maybe give them out to people not picking up Blackest Night, those skipping the tie-ins or maybe even (shudder) non comic book fans? All they’ll be missing out on is, while admittedly great, cover art it’s the story inside that counts (maybe that’s just me). You know, try to get more people into comics. That strategy may (and stay with me on this one, coz it may come as a surprise) get people interested in the main series which they would have to (ok here it comes) buy. For actual dollars. At the comic book store. Which then introduces them to the entire DCU which they can then happily explore in future. The store has a marketing opportunity, DC generates more readers and Marvel gets their research (if this is anything other than market research on Marvel’s part, I’d have to say they’ll end up with some serious egg on their faces in the long run). Everyone wins.

This whole Marvel vs. DC is such a joke. Both companies have their good and bad points, but I really feel bad for those that blindly stick to just one company. You’re missing some good comics either way. Forget ‘Make mine Marvel/DC’, Make mine Comics.

Oh my freekin’ GAWD!
What a bunch of MORONS.
ALL OF YOU. GET A LIFE.
GO DO SOMETHING OTHER THAN TYPING STUPID SH!# THAT NO ONE WITH A LIFE CARES A TINKERS CUSS ABOUT.

I am NEVER reading a comment section on this site again.
F$#*ing loser morons.

I wish some of you losers typing paragraphs about how Marvel should give these comics to starving orphans with AIDS, would shut up and donate some of your own comics! I guy on Newsarama posted that in 8 years of service and 2 tours in Afghanistan he has seen lots of books that Marvel has donated and NOT A SINGLE DC comic. So go puff on that in your shallow pool of pathetic rage.

Schnitz Pretzelpants

January 14, 2010 at 12:23 am

Others have already said this, but for those of you not getting it, here it is again:

Marvel isn’t doing this to as a some affront or insult to DC. It isn’t about Marvel saying, “Hey retailers! Destroy your DC Comics and we’ll give you a gift!”

This is Marvel asking retailers to assist them in market information. Marvel is obviously trying to data-mine, probably considering doing something similar to DC’s ring thing, and they are trying to get some sense of the cost-benefit of a promotion like DC did with the rings. Did DC come out ahead enough that the promotion was ultimately beneficial? That sort of thing.

My only thing is, and of course I don’t know all the ins and outs of research, but I have difficulty believing that this will give Marvel an accurate account of DC’s sales on this. Though, I can see that this is the only means of getting a fairly reasonable sense of the sales for these issues.

Just when you thought Marvel couldn’t possibly be a bigger ass.

I don’t like Marvel or DC with this event after event crap but Marvel gets more heat from me personally. $3.99 for their books?? whats next toy Thor hammers with this lame siege event?? Hahaha Oh Wow not that I give a sh** but I want to see how DC responds to this. If you ask me Anime and Manga is cheaper and better unlike these American companies who could give two tokens less for their fans, Japan knows better animation and better books and shows.. and they care for their fans.

Marvel and DC can suck it. Anime and manga FTW.

I don’t see what the fuss is really, this is actually quite a clever ploy on Marvel’s part, which will help them, help retailers and not in any way impact on DC itself (what with the issues already being off their hands) – about the only loser is going to be anyone who for some reason wants to buy hundreds of copies of one of those tites, but really, there probably isn’t much of a market for that, and a free copy of a £3.99 comic (which will presumably ALL be direct profit for the retailer instead of just a cut)

The only possible downside is that 50 is maybe too high a tarif, as smaller shops might not have the stock going through to support that kind of thing, so it benefits big shops more than smaller ones, but really, helping shops at all can only be a good thing.

After reading all of these posts, I have come to the realisation that I was mistaken in thinking that America was a free and democratic country. It seems to me that only applies if you behave in a manner that everybody finds acceptable or to what ‘they’ constitute as being free and fair. What a pity that my bubble had to be burst in this manner!

To tell you the truth I’m getting a little tired of both companies promotional stunts. To me what really matters is if I’m enjoying the comic and free gifts and variant covers don’t matter to me. Hell I didn’t even get a ring with my copy of Adventure Comics #4 and that didn’t matter even though I thought the LOSH back-up better than the BN tie-in.

When superpowers start squaring off its the whole world that suffers…I mean when industry leaders get petty with each other its the whole industry that gets dragged down through the mud…or something like that. Its the fans who will get caught in the crossfire or be forced to take sides…or something something something the Dark Side. Get a grip Marvel, theres room enough for both and competition on the shelves is good for everyone…or do you wanna be microsoft?

@stanley leiber

quoted for truth, you americans can be a little scary at times! if your like this with comic marketing promotions imagine how you appear on other issues!!

all i can say is im glad this discussion will only be seen by other comic book fans, cos any outsiders would think we’re more pathetic as a group than they already do.

135 comments and I’m pretty sure that the most troll-ish comments are the same guy.

To all the dickheads who thought only to come on here and criticize those who have an opinion (be it right or wrong), last time I checked, (and I think I speak for others here) I spend hundreds, perhaps thousands of dollars a year on comics. I think I have a right to gripe, piss, moan, etc. about the genre that I’m clearly passionate about, and have deeply invested in.

If you find what people have to say amusing, then fine. If you don’t agree with what we are saying, then challenge the point. Otherwise, why don’t you take the same advice that you sling our way: shut the fuck up, and move on.

Enough with the name-calling, weird threats and other nonsense. I realize some of you are passionate about comics, or in your dislike for one publisher or another, but come on …

Wesley Smith
January 13, 2010 at 8:39 pm
I promised myself I wouldn’t wade into this, but I do have to clarify something:

I’ll bet my Blackest Night ring collection, that “James Nausedas” is just an anagram for Joe Q.

There is no “Q” in “Nausedas.”

There’s no “N” in Quesada, nor an “S”. My point was, if they are not the same person, they are still the same person.

Wesley Smith
January 13, 2010 at 8:39 pm
I promised myself I wouldn’t wade into this, but I do have to clarify something:

I’ll bet my Blackest Night ring collection, that “James Nausedas” is just an anagram for Joe Q.

There is no “Q” in “Nausedas.”

“Quesadas doesn’t have anything to do with this level of marketing. Neither does Dan Didio. Both have said so repeatedly. Anyone who believes differently is just fooling themselves. You can rail against the marketing departments as much as you want, but blaming this on editorial is just unproductive.
Quesadas doesn’t have anything to do with this level of marketing. Neither does Dan Didio. Both have said so repeatedly. Anyone who believes differently is just fooling themselves. You can rail against the marketing departments as much as you want, but blaming this on editorial is just unproductive.”

Actually, everyone here is railing against MARVEL as a whole. If you kick me with your foot, do I attack your foot, or you as a whole? Actually, I’m gonna try to take your head off for it.

But curiously, when DC announced the ring promotion (the very one that’s caused this ruckus to begin with), it was actually DIDIO himself that announced it. So even if he wasn’t the guy who came up with it, he clearly signed off on it, as the guy that if it worked well (and it did), then he would basically get the public credit, and if it didn’t, he would be the one that would be lynched pubicly. If you don’t think Joe Q, THE most visible guy @ Marvel, doesn’t know about, sat in the meeting for, and likely signed off on this stunt, then you’re the bigger fool.

But ultimately, it’s a low stunt, regardless of who’s responsible for it.

Chris Jones
January 13, 2010 at 8:36 pm
“I remember at a Con, Joe Q. said “DC has Batman and Superman…. That’s like having the biggest dick in porn, and not knowing what to do with it”. And he said it during a panel with kids there.

This is reminiscent of that kind of tasteless mentality.”

He said it in a magazine interview, actually, but, you know. I think facts have sort of flown out the window 110 comments in anyway.”

You only proved my point better than I did. But just to clarify, it was actually a DC panel, where a fan mentioned it, and Dan kinda scoffed at the tasteless comment, and moved on.

But the point is, it was said.

Rob said “all i can say is im glad this discussion will only be seen by other comic book fans, cos any outsiders would think we’re more pathetic as a group than they already do”

Couldnt agree more, Im glad there are a few people saying that this arguments has been blown out of proportion and the reactions here are crazy, so I know Im not the only sane erson reading this site.

If its a marketing gimick or truly for research what does it really matter, it doesnt affect the content of the books. If Coca Cola did some obscure marketing thing (that only reatailers and people reading message boards on soft drink related wesbites will ever know about) would you boycott Coke and start buying Pepsi instead?

Comics are a product made by a profit making company, surely you buy for the quality of a product and if you can afford the luxury not beause of a lame gimick. And even if you do consider this against your personal code of ethics, fair enough, stop buying books if that makes you happy, but not im sure they will miss your custom in grand scale of things.

Personally I think its a strange move, but to be honest the only interesting story in this article is the over the top responses from hate spewing “fans” to a press release aimed at retailers.

Wow! Those Dark Reign tie-ins were so much better. Come on Joe have some taste.
You better hope Siege turns out to be as good as Blackest Night because I have some Dark Reign stuff I’d like to send back and you can keep your variant cover with that overused
character of yours.

@Samurai36 “Just because you like my stuff doesn’t mean I owe you anything.” – Bob Dylan

Wow.
There’s this weird situation with a subsection of Comic Book Retailers where they’re so emotionally invested in the product they’re selling that they start making stupid business decisions in order to make a point. Marvel’s offering something you might be able sell for something you couldn’t.
Boooo? Bad Marvel?
I mean, if you’re a retailer who didn’t invest in the rings last time because you didn’t want to risk being stuck with remainder stock, don’t you want to KNOW if it would have been a good idea for next time? And if you’re a retailer who did, what’s wrong with recouping a bit of your sunk costs via this scheme?

Bottom line: WHY is this seedy? I mean, all it would do is expose what actually happened. If it would embarrass DC, surely that’s because *DC* did something seedy by effectively bribing retailers to increase their sales. If that’s what you’re worried about, it’s hardly going to be a major embarrasment (if it was, Kelloggs cereals would be heartily embarrassed by now), and even if it was, YOU ARE CRITICISING THE WRONG COMPANY.

Finally, offering single issues of an ongoing to people who can’t afford to pick up future issues is a slap in the face. Why would you slap children in the face, Robot 6 commenters? Why?

So CBR Admin folks –

you have t4ever’s email (required to post a comment), how about sending him an email inviting him to never again show his face here again.

maybe you can even get an IP ban in?

lowers the IQ of the entire site just by allowing his ability to post a comment.

Comics are a commodity, tearing them apart to get some lame-ass book, is a half-baked idea. Marvel Comics has sunk to a new low…

c0ld said:

This means that the stores can do whatever they want with the coverless stories right? Like say maybe give them out to people not picking up Blackest Night, those skipping the tie-ins or maybe even (shudder) non comic book fans?

As other people have mentioned, it’s still common practice for traditional book and magazine retailers to return the cover of an unsold book or magazine to the distributor for a full refund. The distributors do this so booksellers don’t have to return the whole product. The downside is that in exchange for returning the cover, the bookseller agrees to destroy the product so it can’t be sold or distributed.

I don’t know if that’s how things work for modern comic book shops, and the Marvel press release doesn’t seem to imply that, but I thought it was worth pointing out.

Well, t4ever’s post being only one example — I think this entire thread should get shut down. Too many people are posting ridiculous things under the guise of promoting a “reasonable discussion.”

As much as I hate censorship, both Newsarama and CBR should have known better than to post this “news.” This is flame-war bait for the DC and Marvel fanboys and was never going to lead to a meaningful discussion.

rob said:

all i can say is im glad this discussion will only be seen by other comic book fans, cos any outsiders would think we’re more pathetic as a group than they already do.

I was just thinking about this before I sat down at the computer this morning. This level of vitriol isn’t limited to comic book fans, or even fans of sci-fi in general. You’ll see the same kind of outrage and righteous indignation (and I’m not saying it isn’t deserved) in any internet community where people are passionate about the subject. Politics, religion, soap operas… I once read a conversation on a gardening message board about which kinds of roses grow best in which climates explode into a full-blown hissy fit.

However, 99% of all the comments I’ve read here and in other places are coming from fans. I’m very interested to see what the retailer response is going to be, which I’m sure we’ll see by the end of the day.

josh said:

As much as I hate censorship, both Newsarama and CBR should have known better than to post this “news.”

Maybe the site administrators should have taken a stronger hand filtering the responses, but I think we can all agree that the enormous reaction the story has gotten proves that this qualifies this as news.

seems like an over reaction to DC placing in the top ten.

Won’t destroying the DC books make them more rare and by extension worth more?

Wesley — I agree that this is news; I placed the parentheses because it was more than just that; it was flame-bait, QED.

Wow thats one big middle finger to DC. I wonder how many shops will actually do this as 50 issues is = $150….for a variant….(I dont know how much retailers buy the books for)

I am a big Marvel fan & collector and really despise this request/offer by Marvel. It just feels, tastes, smells bad….really its almost slimy.

why not just visit some of the biggest retailers in NYC or LA and do a marktet survey. Some of the big-name stores would love to be interviewed.

Is Marvel somehow worried about something? I have to admit I hate when any comic book company head looks down on competitors. Attitude doesnt sell comics, quality issues do. An over-inflated paranoid ego doesnt create great comics. Self-confidence and healhty rival curiosity does.

if you read the letters pages from the 60s, all the famous comic book rivals cared about was the fans and quality stories.

nuff said.

Tom
January 14, 2010 at 6:11 am
@Samurai36 “Just because you like my stuff doesn’t mean I owe you anything.” – Bob Dylan

Wow.
There’s this weird situation with a subsection of Comic Book Retailers where they’re so emotionally invested in the product they’re selling that they start making stupid business decisions in order to make a point. Marvel’s offering something you might be able sell for something you couldn’t.
Boooo? Bad Marvel?”

Uhmm, not sure what you’re talking about here, but I’m not a retailer. I’m just a comic fan, like the rest of you.
But to your subpoint: If they couldn’t sell that other Marvel, garbage, how on earth are they gonna swap stuff that they ARE selling (i.e., all the BN tie-in stuff) for ONE variant?

You (and others) are quite naive, if you believe that this is marketing research on Marvel’s part. They are cock-blocking sales from DC, plain and simple. SEIGE is leaving readers flat, at best. Yet, Marvel is asking retailers to take a chance on ONE copy of the issue, in lieu of a proven seller, like BN. That’s like you asking me to trade my daughter for your dog.

As long as BN as an even is underway, then there’s always potential to sell whatever unsold copies of the series that retailers still have, and therefore, for the retailers to make more money off of it.

“I mean, if you’re a retailer who didn’t invest in the rings last time because you didn’t want to risk being stuck with remainder stock, don’t you want to KNOW if it would have been a good idea for next time?”

Honestly, I think the amount of retailers that did not invest in this promotion are miniscule. All the more the reason why this “marketing research campaign” is ludicrous.

“And if you’re a retailer who did, what’s wrong with recouping a bit of your sunk costs via this scheme?”

HOW IS THERE ANY RECOUPING HAPPENING????? What part of your sane mind, thinks that trading 50 copies of a potential seller, for ONE COPY of something that’s a sketchy seller at best, an example of recouping anything?

Do you buy Arctic swamp water often?

“Bottom line: WHY is this seedy? I mean, all it would do is expose what actually happened. If it would embarrass DC, surely that’s because *DC* did something seedy by effectively bribing retailers to increase their sales. If that’s what you’re worried about, it’s hardly going to be a major embarrasment (if it was, Kelloggs cereals would be heartily embarrassed by now), and even if it was, YOU ARE CRITICISING THE WRONG COMPANY.”

LOL, you should get into politics, if you’re not already. Or better yet, get hired as a Marvel lawyer. I’m sure they’re gonna need quite a few, after this stunt.

“Finally, offering single issues of an ongoing to people who can’t afford to pick up future issues is a slap in the face. Why would you slap children in the face, Robot 6 commenters? Why?”

Uhmmm…. Huh? This sounds like a straw man arguement. Sorry, I don’t speak straw.

I just can’t understand how removing hundreds of BN tie-ins and “replacing” them with dozens of Deadpool Variants could possibly be a good thing for comics as a whole . . .

@ Ari

i suppose it could get more sales for the retailers cos(like him or loathe him) Deadpool seems to be quite the popular character at the moment

What is really funny is everyone getting so worked up over something that has ZERO impact on us as fans. If there wasn’t an article about it none of us would even know this was happening and we wouldn’t care. Why do people feel the need to get insulted for, and defend, DC Comics (subsidiary of Time-Warner), which is a MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR company? It’s madness! It doesn’t even affect your retailer negatively – they can either take advantage of it or not! All the corruption and underhanded dealings “big business” has been involved with lately and this is what prompts you people to get indignant and take action?? It’s funny then sad then back to funny and now sad again.

Nonsensical child

January 14, 2010 at 9:25 am

To SAMURAI36

#2) From the Newsarama site:

Address To Send Submission:
James Nausedas
Marvel Entertainment, LLC
417 Fifth Avenue, 10th Floor
New York, NY 10016

I’ll bet my Blackest Night ring collection, that “James Nausedas” is just an anagram for Joe Q.

Here’s a quote from wikipedia about the meaning of anagram (which obviously you are not aware of):
“anagram is a type of word play, the result of rearranging the letters of a word or phrase to produce a new word or phrase, using all the original letters…”

Ok now, waiting for you to rearrange the letters in “James Nausadeas” into “Joe Quesada”.
Hmmm… yeah, didnt think so

To all of who said they’re gonna drop all Marvel comics
So we should just take your word for it?????

To all those that found Marvel’s lack of ethics offensive
Since you’re all such experts on the subject, maybe you should enlighten the rest of us on marketing “ethics”.
Is there any “ethics code” in marketing? especially in the US of A????

Obviously this is not about concern for the retailers, the troops or the suffering little children who can’t afford to buy comics. This is just about petty Marvel/DC rivalries and an opportunity that presented itself to trash that publisher you particularly hate for God knows what reason. Fact is, you crave these little disputes because you have nothing better to do with your time.

For the publisher(s) this may likely be just another publicity stunt to create some controversy thus generating some renewed interest in the product they have to offer. And blame it on then count on these news sites to put the word out.
All they care about is the profit they are making or lack thereof, either its DC or Marvel or any other publishing company. So you guys can just keep adding more wood to the fire and kill yourselves in the process while giving them exactly what they want.

In fact this is a stroke of genious and I congratulate the person who had the idea in the first place.
Say what you want but Marvel knows how to market their product better than any other comics publisher in america

Johnny Thunders

January 14, 2010 at 9:34 am

I dont give a damn about all this… bu Deadpool is a shit character.

LoganBane
January 13, 2010 at 6:18 pm
What Marvel should have done is made a Deadpool ring to go with the DC ring collection

I heard there was going to be one for the Deadpool Corps mini event that might be what this market research is about.

I do rip the covers off a stack of DC Comics at least once a month and thank them for the opportunity to do so. They, unlike Marvel, make certain books returnable.

Nonsensical child
January 14, 2010 at 9:25 am
To SAMURAI36

#2) From the Newsarama site:

Address To Send Submission:
James Nausedas
Marvel Entertainment, LLC
417 Fifth Avenue, 10th Floor
New York, NY 10016

I’ll bet my Blackest Night ring collection, that “James Nausedas” is just an anagram for Joe Q.

Here’s a quote from wikipedia about the meaning of anagram (which obviously you are not aware of):
“anagram is a type of word play, the result of rearranging the letters of a word or phrase to produce a new word or phrase, using all the original letters…”

Ok now, waiting for you to rearrange the letters in “James Nausadeas” into “Joe Quesada”.
Hmmm… yeah, didnt think so”

Wow, congraluations, Christopher Columbus!! You’re only the 3rd person here to discover America–I mean, my mistake (which obviously you are not aware of).

While you are consumed with an absolute non-issue, you over look the most blatantly obvious ones.

“To all of who said they’re gonna drop all Marvel comics
So we should just take your word for it?????”

What’s it to you, if they do or don’t? I for one, don’t read Marvel at all, and all of this is why. But the irony here, is in how you speak of the futility of this discussion, yet have managed to both add nothing and everyting to it, at the same time.

“To all those that found Marvel’s lack of ethics offensive
Since you’re all such experts on the subject, maybe you should enlighten the rest of us on marketing “ethics”.
Is there any “ethics code” in marketing? especially in the US of A????”

Wow, the irony continues: having a point, amidst having no point at all.

Granted, the overall ethics of “big business” is questionable. However, the goal of big business, should be to appear ethical at all times, even when they are not. Marvel is not even trying to appear ethical with this. Shamelessly bribing retailers to destroy the product of their competitors?

“Obviously this is not about concern for the retailers, the troops or the suffering little children who can’t afford to buy comics.”

For the life of me, I don’t know why people started bringing that non-sense into it. I sure as hell ain’t concerned about none of that.

“This is just about petty Marvel/DC rivalries and an opportunity that presented itself to trash that publisher you particularly hate for God knows what reason. Fact is, you crave these little disputes because you have nothing better to do with your time.”

Good morning pot, what color is your kettle?

“For the publisher(s) this may likely be just another publicity stunt to create some controversy thus generating some renewed interest in the product they have to offer. And blame it on then count on these news sites to put the word out.
All they care about is the profit they are making or lack thereof, either its DC or Marvel or any other publishing company.”

The problem with these sorts of “stunts” is that they run the risk of backfiring at those that are pulling the stunt in the first place. Do you honestly think that Marvel anticipated this level of backlash?

“So you guys can just keep adding more wood to the fire and kill yourselves in the process while giving them exactly what they want.”

Thanks for your permission, along with your own participation.

“In fact this is a stroke of genious and I congratulate the person who had the idea in the first place.
Say what you want but Marvel knows how to market their product better than any other comics publisher in america”

Except, that they are barely leading the race, in sales, and certainly not in terms of quality. It’s nice to know that backroom tricks will win out over quality product. It’s also nice to see people congratulating underhandedness. In the meantime, DC keeps pushing along, doing what they do.

I’ll say it again, all his week, DC has been announcing all sorts of new projects for the year. All Marvel has to show for themselves, is the “return” of a second-tier X-character (like that’s some great, highly anticipated event), and this fiasco. And DC hasn’t even bothered to respond to the affront to their product.

That should speak volumes for both companies.

To everyone who has said they’re going to drop all their marvel books over this nonsense, everyone knows you’re completely full of shit.

the whole thing is stupid. Marvel have lost the crossover battle and they’ll probably lose the war this summer.

I know for a fact that my LCS would give its right arm for another event like blackest night. A complete sell out from day one. Good on you DC Comics.

Let’s hope that DC doesn’t do the same and ask retailers and fans to cut up copies of marvel titles– as their offices couldn’t take fifteen million tons of unwanted paper.

Marvel. Grow up. Make mine DC!!!!

It’s funny to me how many of you are missing the point entirely here.

Marvel taking unsold issues of DC Comics DOES NOT HELP THE LOCAL RETAILERS AT ALL.

If a comic book store has 50 copies of a book sitting on their shelf unsold, the comic book store STILL had to pay for those 50 issues.

All this is doing is saving them the cost of a variant issue…..which is only a few dollars. The comic shop spent more on the 50 issues of Blackest Night tie-ins than they EVER will on a Marvel variant.

The math simply doesn’t work out.

Marvel is NOT helping local comic shops by doing this.

They are indeed scummy.

This is definitely an immoral business tactic.

And if you can’t see that is doesn’t help out comic shops at all, then there is only one word to describe you.

And that word is “stupid.”

The shop I work at sold out of every one of those issues related to the ring tie-in. However, we have tons of Dark Reign tie-ins on the shelves just waiting to become dollar box fodder. So, we would gladly be willing to send those back to Marvel if they want to give us free stuff for them, as long as they pay all shipping costs involved.

Hey Genius Jones, did it not oocur to you that the same sentiment had already been put forth in about 35% of the prior 164 posts?

I’m interested to know what the creators on those books Marvel singled out think of this promotion. In essence Marvel has called their work worthless crap taking up valuable shelf space…

Wow how do you interpret “send us any unsold copies” as “you creators put out some worthless crap”? Actually what they are saying in essence is “for every 50 stripped covers Marvel receives by Feb. 16, retailers will qualify to receive one free Siege #3 Deadpool Variant”

If we’re going into ridiculous hyperbole, what does it say to the creators when in essence DC said that the only way to get people to read their work was to include worthless plastic jewelry?

Actually I interpreted these exact words from Marvel’s press release: “In an effort to provide assistance to comic retailers in 2010, Marvel is offering retailers an opportunity to turn unsold comics into an extremely rare Siege #3 Deadpool Variant!” that Marvel believes these creators burdened the poor, unfortunate retailers with worthless crap.

Can I get a refund from either company for any book written by Brad Meltzer, Yost & Kyle, or Matt Fraction!? SNOOZEFEST.

That is still not what they are saying. They are saying that if retailers overordered certain copies so that they could get a full set of rings (which, if you look at the sales jumps for those issues compared to prior months, they most certainly did) and have extra unsold copies sitting on their shelf they can get the variant. They are not saying anything about the quality (good or bad) of those issues.

Where do you get “worthless crap” from? Seems like you are projecting.

Wow, this boiled over fast. I want to point out in advance that bolded words in this post are NOT me yelling, but added for my emphasis and in the cadance of my normal speech.

From a marketing standpoint this is a VERY clever move on Marvel’s part for two reasons:

1). This is obviously making waves within the hobby community and it has always been said that there is no such thing as bad publicity. Aside from the few “chicken little” rants nobody will radically alter their buying habits due to this, and will not hurt Marvel *OR* DC’s bottom line. If ahything it is opening diologue within the industry concerning the validity of sales numbers as a measure of readership.

2). This will ABSOLUTELY yield marketing data for both Marvel *AND* DC (on Marvel’s dime I might add). They will find one of three things:

A- Retailers ordered a large quantity of these issues and were able to move the issues (this information will not be able to factor wether or not this was due to the issues being sold with the rings or independent of them). This may make way for more promotions in the same vein from both retailers (and won’t that be fun and bargain bin filling).

B- SOME retailers will participate indicating that those retailers are either trying to cash in on a rare variant (and make no doubt that it will be rare in the long run) or have a surplus stock that they feel they cannot move and CHOOSE to participate in the exchange.

C- MANY retailers will CHOOSE participate. Marvel will then be able to determine what percentage of whole sales were not moving on the secondary market, thus indicating those issues were primarily purchased for the promotion. This will reveal at least two things: either MANY retailers are trying to cash in on imovable stock as in B (also indicating that these retailers were selling or distributing rings without the comics), or MANY retailers feel that they can move the variant at a higher price than the combined value of those 50 books (or some combination of the two).

Make NO mistake that this is a market data mining endeavour. Marvel benefits none from “trashing” their competetor and DC could likely care less; their issues are sold, packaged, and shipped already. Polls are only as honest as persons within the polling demographic; ACTION is absolute, and this will yield data valuable to both companies in the long run.

Also, as intelligently and respectfully as I can say this, their is nothing UNETHICAL about this promotion by Marvel, it is COMPETITIVE. They in no way are misleading their customers, shareholders, or the populace in general nor are they in any way in breach of societal duties. It is purely a business decision, one actionable ONLY by the retailers that this promotion has been opened to (and them directly acting upon the buying trends of their customers).

I understand that many people have strong feelings on both side of this issue, but these are businesses that operate at a very high monetary threshold. EVERY decision (creator contenet, distribution, release schedules, character development, etc…) is made with the bottom line in mind. That we enjoy their products and are along for the ride and allow them to remain in business is in everyone’s interest.

All emotion aside this is a very INTERESTING (for all parties involved) way for the COMIC INDUSTRY to glean some very valuable marketing data.

Except, for the fact that marvel verifies this and choose to increase or decrease the actual amount of issues returned because they are the only ones counting them with no one to verify the truth of it. Which reminds me shouldn’t there be a thing like……………….um………….uh……….oh right checks and balances. Just saying.

I don’t see why people are so angry about this. If people wanted to buy the comic they probably would have bought it already. The comics will still be readable since marvel is only asking for the covers, so they’re still able to be donated. A free comic is a free comic with or without its cover. And it helps out retailers who will probably be able to sell the super rare variant for way more than they’d get for sticking these comics in the dollar bin or giving them away. Its a win win for everyone. DC already got its over-inflated sales numbers for these comics. Marvel gets some recon on DCs actual sales numbers. Retailers get a boost. And the comics can still be donated. Settle down people!

I hasten to point out that this is neither congress nor parliament. Checks and balances? Your going to have to elaborate how that concept applies to publishing, or business for that matter. This is a VOLUNTARY promotion available to retailers. If they find it will be more profitable to trade in the covers then they will. After all they have a bottom line too.

Even if Marvel chooses not to divulge the resulting data we should be able to discern a general idea of how successful the promotion was by looking at the value of the varient Siege issue in the aftermarket. If it is high (reletively) then we can assume fewer were redeemed. If it is low or there are a lot available on the market then the redemption yielded high results.

I never said that Marvel would release their results. In fact I fully expect them not to. Data mining is expensive and there is no reason to give up a costly bit of info without reason. I DO expect that if they find that the books were ordered for the additional promotional material alone (i.e. there were not an equal number rings and books distributed to retailers), then Marvel may follow a similar model to increase sales in the future.

Way to be absolute douche bags Marvel. Perhaps you could just try to..oh..I dunno..put out better fucking comics instead of this bullshit.

@Wesley Smith;

You make a good point with regards to the cover returns being the norm in the publishing biz. I should point out however that in regular cicumstances the covers are returned to the distributors who would then have to reimburse in some form (replacements, credits, etc.). This situation is quite different as the covers are being sent to Marvel. So in effect there is no return. Neither Diamond nor DC are out of pocket so the selling or (more hopefully) distributing/donating of the books should be unencumbered. That is unless of course DC still has that line in their legal block preventing the sale of a ripped/torn book. And even then I’m not sure if it’s just selling that’s are covered.

prescribeddrone

January 15, 2010 at 1:32 am

can i send marvel back all the worthless secret invasion cross overs?

@Samurai36
“Uhmm, not sure what you’re talking about here, but I’m not a retailer. I’m just a comic fan, like the rest of you.”
>Sorry, the whole post wasn’t directed at you. It was just that quote. This one, however…

“But to your subpoint: If they couldn’t sell that other Marvel, garbage, how on earth are they gonna swap stuff that they ARE selling (i.e., all the BN tie-in stuff) for ONE variant?”
>Hang on. They’ll only exchange stuff they can’t sell. Why would they exchange stuff they think they can sell? >Try and remember Blackest Night tie-in sales figures are the numbers DC sells to retailers, not how many are bought by actual readers. And these comics were non-returnable, if you wanted to take advantage of the promotion. So Marvel’s offering them an opportunity to return non-returnable comics.

“You (and others) are quite naive, if you believe that this is marketing research on Marvel’s part. They are cock-blocking sales from DC, plain and simple.”
>Erm, DC makes its money from the retailers. Which means that DC’s sales on BN:BG will only get higher if they do another printing. Considering Doom Patrol’s usual sales, and the amount of BN: Doom Patrol copies now in circulation, I don’t see another printing being necessary. Sales FROM retailers TO customers don’t even affect the charts, let alone DC’s bottom line.
>As I said, all this could do is embarrass DC by showing that their promotional offer left retailers with a lot of surplus stock. How would they ever survive that?

“SEIGE is leaving readers flat, at best. Yet, Marvel is asking retailers to take a chance on ONE copy of the issue, in lieu of a proven seller, like BN. That’s like you asking me to trade my daughter for your dog.”
>To say that Seige is leaving readers flat is a bit ridiculous after a single issue. Especially as the actual full sales of Seige #1 won’t be out for a month, until after the “Director’s Cut”, etc.
>Also, BN is a proven seller, but most of its tie-ins aren’t. There’s an awful lot of BN: Superman and BN: Batman still around, and BN: Batman was really good. And if it’s such a bad deal, then retailers won’t take it. So where’s the problem?

“As long as BN as an even is underway, then there’s always potential to sell whatever unsold copies of the series that retailers still have, and therefore, for the retailers to make more money off of it.”
>To be clear, this isn’t “Blackest Night”, which is now on its umpty-first printing, or BN: Green Lantern, which is is the major tie-in, and the source of the backstory.
>This is Blackest Night: Booster Gold, where one of DC’s lowest selling titles guest-stars one of its cancelled titles. That stuff tends to hang around in the bargain bin for a *while*. Besides, if you’re actually right, then MARVEL WON’T GET ANY COVERS. So what is your problem?

“Honestly, I think the amount of retailers that did not invest in this promotion are miniscule. All the more reason why this “marketing research campaign” is ludicrous.”
>Well, you’re wrong. A lot of smaller retailers didn’t want to be stuck with potentially unsellable stock, and didn’t take the risk.

“HOW IS THERE ANY RECOUPING HAPPENING????? What part of your sane mind, thinks that trading 50 copies of a potential seller, for ONE COPY of something that’s a sketchy seller at best, an example of recouping anything?”
>We seem to have competing theories.
>My theory is that if you’ve bought more copies of BN:Booster Gold than you’ve sold copies of normal Booster Gold in total over the last year, you’ll probably have enough left to fill that section of the bargain bin, and still have some you’d like to return.
>Your theory is that the people who bought SECRET INVASION (Possibly the worst crossover of the last 10 years, and top of the charts each week) will NOT buy Seige #3. (In which the Dark Avengers attack Asgard and fight Cap, Iron Man and Thor aka. the next 3 Marvel Movies). Really? REALLY?

“LOL, you should get into politics, if you’re not already. Or better yet, get hired as a Marvel lawyer. I’m sure they’re gonna need quite a few, after this stunt.”
>*sigh*Americans. Only there would offering to trade comic covers for comics be a matter for the courts. I don’t think there’s a better use for the word “Frivolous”.

“”Finally, offering single issues of an ongoing to people who can’t afford to pick up future issues is a slap in the face. Why would you slap children in the face, Robot 6 commenters? Why?”
Uhmmm…. Huh? This sounds like a straw man argument. Sorry, I don’t speak straw.”
>THAT. WAS. A. JOKE.

“Can I send Marvel back all the worthless Secret Invasion cross overs?”
No, and you can’t do that for the equally worthless BN crossovers either (seriously, 50 extra issues of R.E.B.E.L.S. #10? 25 of Outsiders #24? I mean at least the Secret Invasion tie-ins I got (Initiative, Runaways, Captain Britain and Inc Hercules) were *good* books).
The difference is that Marvel didn’t make the sale of a promotional tie-in dependent on buying these comics, so the retailers should only have ordered what they thought they could sell, rather than buying more than they’d ever sell so they could sell power rings for extra money.

Ignoring the vitriolic threads here and trying to get into something a little actually – conversation worthy:

Would anybody here turn down a copy of this Deadpool variant if offered, for your collection?
We can probably estimate how many copies of this thing there may be… take the standard sales for those titles, find the difference with the Ring issue sales – make some stab at a possible bump in sales due to the event and not the giveaway and the return rate – divide by 50 and – maybe…
Are there any sales chart nerds and/or hardcore collector nerds that could have a shot at this?

I’m glad about the Marvel offer and hope my shop takes it. The shop got 2 rings per comic and sold the first 5 colours or so for cheap. But by the last few they seem to have sat on those loose rings to make you buy the issues at full price to complete your set….

@Joseph: Yes, it did occur to me that I was reiterating a sentiment made by many others. It never hurts to reiterate a valid point. Did it occur to you that is rather odd for you to be getting so worked up “over something that has ZERO impact on us as fans. (-Joseph)?”

why this is upsetting is not that one billion dollar company can hurt another financially, or that I would stop buying/collecting from marvel…

its got more or a weird feeling, where have i seen this before moment to it. And the feeling inst a good one.

it seems so…i dont know…old school street vendorish slimey kinda thing going on about it.

“hey buddy, i have this great avacado green tie I will trade you for all of your blueberry purple ones, I will even give it to you for 20cents off…”

i mean why not just try and see if your product sells instead of asking for the competitions stuff back? just daggonestrange & cheap saleman-ish. Its also got a “you gotobegiddingme” moment written all over it. I mean, marvel really needs to do this to sell or promote the variant????

Interesting comments so far.

My thoughts:

1. There is no market research here. By encouraging retailers to ship covers back, this will reduce the amount of DC product on the shelves. How many times have you picked up a recent back issue because of good reviews or word of mouth? Can’t do it if there is no product on the shelf. While not illegal, it really smells bad when one company offers their product only if another company’s product is destroyed.

2. Irony: Marvel wondering if the rings promotion was a marketing gimmick to boost sales. See “Obama Spider-man cover”.

3. Instead of putting down another company’s product, Marvel should focus on putting out a good product (this goes for all publishers).

An email I just wrote to Marvel:

Dear Marvel Comics,

I’m sorry to send this to multiple email addresses, but I’m guessing as to what might be a valid email address. Your website is atrocious and after 10 minutes of browsing it I’ve found no feedback or customer service email address.

I’m writing you this letter in response to your new Siege/Deadpool variant promotion. You know, the “destroy DC comics to get free stuff” promo.

I’ve been a casual fan of both Marvel and DC for about 15 years now. I routinely buy trades from both companies, and have been an especially great fan of Bendis’ work (I own the entire Ultimate Spiderman collection so far) as well as numerous other titles (mostly in the Ultimates universe, but also enjoy Iron Man and the Fantastic Four as well).

However, your recent promotion has led me to this:

I will never buy one of your products again.

I feel this promotion is crass and underhanded. It smacks of used-car salesman BS. It’s low class.

No more trades.
No more DVDs.
I vow to never see a single Marvel movie in theaters. I’m pretty sure I can wait for Netflix to pop up with Iron Man 2, etc before seeing it.

Moreover, I will now become a DC zealot. I own quite a back collection of their stuff as well, and over this weekend I plan on dusting it off and doing my best to loan it to as many friends as possible, in order to boost their sales. Blackest Night has been especially good, so it shouldn’t be that hard.

Whenever your company comes up in conversation, and it will (because I am a geek, and all my friends are geeks, and needless to say we talk about comics a lot), I will bring up this unseemly and trashy promotion, and go over again all the things I’ve mentioned here, and hopefully manage to bring a few more over to my way of thinking.

I will also be posting copies of this letter to several message forums, and encourage others to voice their dissatisfaction as well in a similar manner.

Thank you for your time.

Goodbye.

I grew up on Marvel comics. I read Spider-Man, X-Men, G.I. Joe, and Transformers. When Batman came out (that should tell you how old I am) I started reading Batman. Since then I’ve expanded to reading Vertigo, other DC titles, and independent books. I stopped reading X-Men after they ret-coned Grant Morrisons run, but I picked up Captain America. I was interested in picking up Siege, but instead I’ll just save my money and buy a DC or independent book. What Marvel has done has really disgusted, and disturbed me. I honestly don’t think I will buy another Marvel book in my life. I’m also going to email Marvel and let them know how I feel about their promotion. I encourage anyone else who’s upset to do the same.

If Marvel is asking retailers to send in covers as a marketing research tool, their marketing department is made of idiots. Since I don’t think that is the case, Marvel must be doing this as a bitch slap to DC.

If Marvel wanted to know how DC titles were selling, they could do so without destroying their competitor’s books. You can’t truly assess sales and marketing strategies of the books without knowing
1) How many copies did the shop order?
2) How many copies of each book sold? How many more compared with the previous issue?
3) How was the promotion handled? Did the shop require a book purchase to get the ring?
4) How many copies of the next month’s issue sold relative to before the promotion? Did the event generate new readers for those titles?

A random survey of comic book shops would answer these questions. Shops that participated could get the variant cover. Or, if the cover is really that super special, Marval could do a drawing from those that participated to see who gets the variant.

Now Someone may have brought this up earlier, but it gets a bit tough wading through the tears and vomit, but the monthly sales figures are sent out by Diamond after all of the orders are placed, then, at the end of the month or at some point specified after initial sales date, there is a small window where a retailer can return books to diamond (at a slightly lower return price) when they have undersold or in a case like this been forced to over-order for some inane promotion or another (and both companies are equally guilty of such sales ploys), after all those returns are in, the actual numbers come back to go in the year-end sales figures.
Several times in years past (unbeknown to the general public) both Marvel and DC have run similar offers to retailers wherein they can send covers from unsold competitor books (often a flagship title or a relaunch) that they feel may have gone unsold in exchange for some special variant or widget. It’s not an unheard of practice. In this case, Marvel is asking their retailers to send covers from books that they think were ordered solely for a promotional tie-in, and in exchange for these covers (which make the book it was attached to effectively worthless) they will send (free of charge) a number of exclusive Variants for an event book that they feel may have been equally over-ordered.
DC is fully within their rights as a publisher to offer a counter-incentive to wit that retailers can send unsold covers from _______ and receive an exclusive cover for _________.

Now to all of you calling this move “scummy”, is it any more devious than this situation: you are a food distributor, you sell Florida Oranges; You see that one of your customers has been saddled with an over-abundance of grapefruits, which he is not able to sell and will spoil soon; you offer to take some of the grapefruits off of his hands in exchange for some of your oranges, so long as he explains that he got those oranges on special from you. The grocer wasn’t going to make any money off of the grapefruits, but he can definitely sell the oranges, and now has made a portion of the money he lost on the grapefruits back.
The grocer is happy, you are happy, and you have now made your relationship with that client that much stronger.
Is this “scummy”, or just good business?

Oooo Shiney Deadpool

January 19, 2010 at 10:35 pm

If I could, I would do the fifty covers thing. Get my stupid Seige 3 Deadpool Variant then destroy it, and send it back.

If Seige is the masterpiece they claim it is, then why worry? Or did they just piss away seven years? I think they just pissed away seven years to have Iron Man Osborn team up with Loki so nothing happens. I don’t read Marvel but that sounds worse than the Joker getting Mr. Mxyzptlk’s powers in a Superman crossover. (Sorry DC, but I still won’t forgive you on that guy). Marvel will never get my DC money.

I hope that DC makes a Deathstroke Variant on something. Maybe even wearing our sweet rings. With two middle fingers up.

As one of these members serving overseas, a delivery of 6 connected stories to people on the ground would be an unbelivably positive gesture.

I heard about this and hit google and your fine site came up.

The people who thought of this alternative should be getting the media attention, not Marvel comics.

How about stores send in a freight reciept and marvel issues a variant for every 5kg of comics shipped to troops.

The tactic Marvel is employing here has some parrallels to what our troops are dealing with, the ‘bad guys’ encouraging locals to deface symbols of them as a means of controlling communities.

Smart move by Marvel! Sorry most of you guys seem to hate free markets. I remember my local comic shop being annoyed by those dumb rings DC was trying to get out. If they have a bunch of extra comics and my localy owned retailer can make a little extra $$ in the these trying times as say go for it. I hope to get a copy of this deadpool variant.

Wow! I’d love to get all of these! Does anyone know if they are still available now?

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