Robot 6

Spider-Man 4 delayed by villain dispute



A clash over the villain for Spider-Man 4 has prompted Sony Pictures to delay the start of production and could bump the film from its announced May 11, 2011, release.

According to The Hollywood Reporter, director Sam Raimi wants the classic Spider-Man foe the Vulture as the lead antagonist while the studio is set on another villain — anyone other than ol’ Adrian Toomes, apparently — plus a romantic subplot involving the Black Cat.

Just three week ago Sony denied a report by IESB that production had been placed on “indefinite hold” because of the dispute over the villain.

If this sounds familiar, it’s probably because Raimi had pushed for the Vulture to appear alongside Sandman in Spider-Man 3 before being convinced by Producer Avi Arad to use Venom instead.

Production of Spider-Man 4 originally was set for spring 2010, and still could begin by summer. According to the trade paper, Alvin Sargent (Spider-Man 2, Spider-Man 3) is the latest a succession of screenwriters to attempt a script that will wed the conflicting visions of Raimi and Sony executives.



Tom Fitzpatrick

January 5, 2010 at 8:32 pm

I dunno what’s the matter with the Sony executives, Sam Raimi has done a pretty damn good job with the three Spider-man films (even tho’ the third was a bit over-crowded). Why mess with perfection?

I still would like to see the Lizard as well as the Vulture.

I would love to see the Vulture. The Vulture is my favorite Spider-baddie.

However, the obvious choice here is the Lizard. Lizard, Lizard, Lizard.

You’d think they would have learnt their lesson from Spidey 3. That movie was bad, especially in the light of the first two. I can see why the studio would want to throw Felicia into the mix, just about the same reason they Venom made it into number 3. Here’s hoping Mr. Raimi sticks to his guns and does the movie he envisions.

Nikki Finke had posted the story hours before The Hollywood Reporter.

Nikki says: “But I do hear that it’s now unlikely Anne Hathaway will be cast.”

Black Cat rumours have been swirling around since rumours about Spider-Man 2 first started. While I would LOVE to see Felicia in a movie…I don’t want them to make a mess of her the way they did Venom, or to give her the limited screen time that Gwen Stacy had.

Furthermore, wasn’t Venom pushed on Raimi by the studio? Umm, if I remember correctly, Venom was one of the more reviled aspects of the movie – I mean, it’s because of that that we got WannaEmo-Peter and Topher Grace… You’d think they’d step back and just let Raimi do this thing.

With all the Twilight numbers, the execs must be wanting Morbius to show up instead. Or just run the thing into the ground already and put Carnage in there.

I could go for Kraven and Black Cat.

After Spider-Man 3, the real villain are the Spider-Man movies themselves.

IMO the whole Spidey franchise should stay a Trilogy.

Tobey Maguire is just too old and showing it.

Kirsten Dunst is also pretty long in the tooth.

The only way a Spidey 4 would work is if they went with a post wedding story, bumped the timeline by a decade.

The villains should be The Sinister Six, just blow it out completely.

The story should be an all out action flick with Mary Jane featured as a cameo and most of the film with Peter behind the mask.

And a great ending would be an Avengers invite.

It’s probably because the Vulture is elderly that Sony doesn’t want him in it.
I greatly disliked Spider-Man 3 with Peter letting the Sandman get away. Like they want to give the message go easy on criminals.

Wish they’d replace Maguire. He just can’t do Spidey’s wisecracking insults.

vulture is lame, if anything it should either the lizard cause doc connors is already in the story or carnage. but i think with all the modern technology they could do a pretty good job with mysterio

So is this how this studio will kill this particular franchise? by stepping in the way of the talented director who made Two great films and then one crap one (thanks to Studio Execs getting in his way). When will people in Hollywood learn that focus groups and market data don’t always beat talent and knowledge of a property? Let Rami make the movie the way he wants to make the movie before we have another Batman and Robin.

You know what? Now that I think about it, I don’t really care for the romantic sub-plot featuring the Black Cat because there was already a romantic sub-plot within the third film. Also, Sony should just let Raimi choose the villain. Sure, there’s other baddies I’d rather see over the Vulture, but it was Raimi who DIDN’T want Venom in the third film at first, and we all know how that turned out. Plus, Ben Kinsley would play a kick-ass Vulture (he better be casted if they use Vulture). Personally, I’d like to see Mysterio and Chameleon and the film as a more of a psychological thriller.

It was the execs that pushed Rami into having Venom in Spidey 3 since they were afraid they’d never get a Spidey 4. The result is that one of the most notorious Spidey villains outside of the Goblins was essentially SHOEHORNED into the story when he should have been saved for number 4. Number 3 should have had Peter with the symbiote, getting rid of it and we see Brock arising as Venom, then the rest of the movie would be Spidey with Harry as Goblin 2 assisting him against Sandman with Brock/Venom watching from the shadows then swinging away laughing as he plots his revenge which would be in Spidey 4.

Killing Harry was also an error, but I suppose given Harry’s mental instability over his father and knowing Peter’s secret that he had to go. At least he went out as a friend and not a foe.

However there is still a way to get Venom back in the movies: Dr. Connors has that piece of the symbiote in his lab and it had already been with Peter therefore it would have Peter’s powers to pass on to a new host. In the comics, Mac Gargan aka the Scorpion was bonded to the symbiote and is essentially Venom 2 last I heard. So for Spidey 4: Gargan becomes the Scorpion and as they fight, the crash into Connors lab and Scorpion makes contact with the symbiote piece and becomes Venom 2.

Bringing in Carnage as a villain would be a stupid idea. Cletus Kassidy was a nutcase killer along the lines of Joker combined with Hannibal Lechter BEFORE he became Carnage. IF Carnage was put into a Spidey movie it would likely become a rated R gorefest that not many Spidey fans would like and children who see the movie may come out of it with nightmares or bad ideas.

Other villain choices:

1. Lizard
2. Mysterio
3. I’d like to see a cameo appearance of someone playing Roderick Kingsley thus setting up the idea that the HOBGOBLIN may appear in a sequel.
4. Kraven the Hunter

They’ve been quietly setting up The Lizard from the first film. I’m not sure why they haven’t used him yet.

I’d like to see a number of villains, in varying roles. Howabout a pre-title fight with one mook who gets taken down quickly, maybe Electro or Shocker, then the main villain be someone entirely else, and have Tombstone in the background.

Just no clone saga, On bended knee I ask you, no clone saga.

Sigh, are they keeping Lizard out of it just to keep us fans hanging? I like Vulture, sure, but hinting at Lizard for three films with no payoff is tedious, it’s not keeping me interested in the franchise, it’s just getting on my nerves hahahah

They also teased Man-Wolf (John Jameson) in the first film. Why not him?


Sam Raimi did a good job with Spidey 1 & 2, then in Spidey 3 Avi Arad pushed for Venom which is one of the reasons 3 sucked, now the suits are interfering which means # 4 might suck, too. Might as well not even bother to make this movie.

Lizard & Kraven would be cool, but if they go with The Vulture I wouldn’t mind.

I agree with moore,

sinister six, problem solved!

I don’t understand why the studio is getting all of the blame for Spider-man 3. Yes, Venom was shoehorned in but if he was given the time and a director that didn’t write him off as 80’s garbage Venom would have been an awesome Spider-man villain and someone that could have carried an entire film as the solo villain. Instead, we got the Sandman who was so BORING and had no motivation (did we ever see him give his kid the money? No, he probably spent it on Sand-hookers) but what made it worse is that they ruined Spidey’s origin for the sake of some terrible villain. And you know what? That was all Raimi’s doing. I’d rather they not make Spider-man 4, or bring in a director that isn’t stuck in the 1960’s comic books. Do a Kraven’s Last Hunt movie. That would be awesome.

Note that Curt Connors and John Jameson are valid supporting cast members even without changing into their alter-egos. And, that we’ve seen cameo pre-villain characters re-cast for their turn as the villain (no Billy Dee Williams Two-Face), which tends to lose the set-up value.

Let’s go with the Spider Slayers so we can have more of J. Jonah Jameson!


As far as Warwick’s suggestion of a Kraven’s Last Hunt movie?

First, the story would lack impact if not for a long history of conflict between Kraven and Spidey – it simply wouldn’t work as the character’s first appearance.

Second (in my opinion) a lot of what makes that story work is the fact that Peter has a wife (not just a girlfriend) who’s worried about him. I’d set it as an example of a story that can be told without the Peter/MJ marriage, but that is not nearly as effective.

Third, while I recognize this is a minority opinion, “Kraven’s Last Hunt” is an excellent story – but is not a great Spider-Man story. It’s the sort of story the lead Marvel editorial to conclude that they needed to essentially reboot Spidey, to get away from the darkness and heaviness that had been layered on the character (that “reboot” being the clone saga). Peter angsting over how to pay rent, or his aunt’s health, or how being Spidey has messed with his life – good. Peter buried alive, acting like he almost has this alternate personality of “the Spider’ in him, and basically aping THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS – not so good.

I think the sheer awfulness of Spidey 3, in spite of making a ton of money, has left the studio not knowing what to do. They have to know they can’t serve up another shit sandwich without losing customers this time out. Not sure what they’re waiting for with The Lizard, they’ve only been building up Dr. Connors since the first movie! Throw in Kraven, who’s looking to bag Lizard as a prize, and you’ve got a movie that should wash the bad taste of Spidey3 away. Maybe use it as a setup for a film version of “Kraven’s Last Hunt” after that? RD’s right that it wouldn’t work for Kraven’s first appearance, but it would make a great sequel (the plan was to do at least a 5th movie anyhow, right?) Otherwise, Mysterio’s the only other great, classic choice that I can see.

I don’t think Hobgoblin makes sense anymore, given how they botched the whole Harry as Goblin, Jr. thing in the last movie, although the suggestion of the Spider Slayers (and more of Jonah, who’s the best part of the movies) could be good too. Black Cat would be welcome, but this “Vultress” idea sounds like a huge mistake. I don’t even want to see Vulture… I can’t take a geezer in a bird suit seriously.

Maybe it’s just time to let this thing go, wait a good long while, and then reboot? Tobey’s not getting any younger.

at least Sony is smart enough to try and work things out for otherwise they risk killing the franchise and doubt no one wats to be the one who killed spider for villian’s rami should after three be allowed to have who he wants since he is the one who helped make the thing a franchise. though i would love to see him go with the lizzard since we have been teased by curt in the first two film.s and kraven or the chemealon two classics for the vulture would wind up looking like the green goblin a power ranger suit.

I feel that this time Raimi will stick to his guns and walk away from this project if Sony continues to interfere. Which I could see happening, if they can’t work things out.

After the mess of Spiderman 3… I agree that the franchise needs a time jump and a slightly new direction.

Raimi did a great job of 1 & 2, but it’s time to give somebody else a shot to direct. Have Peter Parker married and consider this the beginning of a new trilogy, heading to “Spiderman: Secret SIX,” which would be a great finale.

It doesn’t have to ignore what came before, but the focus is on going forward. It would even be a great time to switch actors so that you can get some new talent locked in for more sequels.

haha “Secret SIX.” I meant “(Sinister) SIX.”

I’m fairly certain that if we start the movie with Peter and Mary Jane married that the studio will try to shoehorn Mephisto in the movie.

Which….for the movies….could maybe work if the fifth movie had MJ out completely and let Gwen or Felicia take over.

Or, you know, not.

Vulture sucks for a movie villain Lizard or Mysterio would make much better villains (IE Special Effects) Say what you want about Spider-Man 3 (which I enjoyed for what it’s worth) but this time the Studio is right.

You think little kids who enjoyed the special effects of 3 (Sand and Symbiote) are going to be satisfied with an old flying guy? Hell to the n-o. Even the way they hyped up Volture in the Web of Shadows game isn’t enough to get kids excited. Not even the little kid who is typing this who is 34 years old. WHAT? (!)

I’m all for Vulture in a SInister Six movie, but they should wait for part 6 to do that one. IMHO.

Yeah if Sam Raimi doesn’t move on this one than I think it’s time to let him go. Not sure who should replace but come on, Vulture? You’re wrong Raimi. Just wrong. Focus on Legend of the Seeker, the World of Warcraft movie and that Sparticus series and heck maybe a From Hell sequel. Now that’s the stuff! HOSTESS.

Spidey 2 and 3 were crap, keep the love story crap out of the movie. Just give us a damn super hero movie with non stop action for once. Plus no more emmo peter parker, 20min of dancing is not a good superhero movie….

A Spider-Man movie that’s not terrible would be good, how about aim for that.

I agree with Sano – there is absolutely nothing visually interesting about the Vulture. I don’t think many people under the age of 40 (50?) will be lining up to see Ben Kingsley in a skintight bird suit fighting Tobey Maguire. It MIGHT work if they completely reinvented the character, but if you’re going to do that why not just use a different villain?

Say what you want about the 3rd film, it still made a crapload of money so it’s not like the executives who insisted on Venom are going to sheepishly let Raimi do whatever the hell he wants now. I agree with everyone else who feels the Lizard would be a logical way to go – it would be a cool visual and Raimi, with his horror movie expertise, could really hit that one out of the park and make a great superhero action/horror movie.

Did I say a From Hell sequel? I meant a Drag Me To Hell sequel. If the Hughes Brothers read my post and actually go out and make a From Hell sequel I apologize. :P

Yeah, keep the romance out. It’s not like it’s been a center of the genre since Superman was invented.

They have been teasing us since the first movie,and folks I would love to see the Lizard but with the way they always feel they have to reinvent the characters look, just imagine the lame job they might do on the Liz! I would love to see Mysterio but the Sinister SIx could rock too,please no Black Cat unless she’s a minor character! Three could have been much better, (I can’t believe i’m saying this), without Venom.

Hobgoblin as a villain would make sense. Remember, this villain is someone whose henchman found one of Norman’s Goblin weapon caches while fleeing Spiderman. He then checks out the equipment and kills his henchmen and slowly but surely sets himself up to be the Hobgoblin. That can easily work for the movie.

As to the Vulture, make him young instead of old.

Or better yet, let’s bring in a real shocking villain that the audience should get a good charge out of…..ELECTRO!

Use The Lizard. Have Felecia Hardy. Have Gargan investigate Spidey. Have Mac become Socrpion at the end of the film and be the villain in #5. Felecia is Black Cat in #5.

As fans, we all know that Raimi is right and should be trusted to do his own thing. Sadly, the studio justifiably feels that they’re correct here because they did the same thing for Spider-Man 3 and it grossed bajillions of dollars more than the other two. Sigh. I guess the movie critics don’t matter anymore…

Hulk should be the villain. That would be awesome by default.

I keep wondering who the people who keep bitching about the “relationship/emotional crap” in Spider-man are, and what version of the character they’ve been reading, or have ever read. The fact that the book focused on the everyday ups-and-downs, relationships and neuroses of a confused everyman named Peter Parker, who just happened to also be a superhero, is what made it unique in the first place, and is the primary reason the character is still around and relatable to a large chunk of the general public.

If you take the heartache, the moral quandries and the emotional battles away, leaving nothing but superpowers and wall-to-wall action, then it’s not Spider-man anymore; it’s just another generic superhero.

I can almost hear these same people saying: “Lee/Ditko? Who’s that? Stern/Romita? Never heard of ‘em. Now, Maximum Carnage, that’s the way to do Spider-man…”

I hate to be on sony’s side in this but I agree….Vulture is not a good enough villain to carry a movie by himself as the sole antagonist, and from a completely personal opinion, i don’t want him there. Also a subplot with Black Cat would be awesome! everyone loves black cat, well except for raimi because he reviles anything not created by stan lee and romita sr apparently. The obvious choice here is the Lizard. Connors has been waiting in the wings for three movies now ( well he was at least mentioned in the first movie) the actor of Connors says he wants to play the character, and Villain-wise, he is a lot cooler the vulture and a stronger villain because there is that whole ” I dont wanna hurt the doc but I gotta stop him from eating more people heads!”

…but can you imagine a VULTURE played by BEN KINGSLY?…..OUTSTANDING

I agree with Nericus, make vulture young. And electro is cool too. What about…
Magneto (Awesome!)
Lizard (At last! Stop annoying us already, GIVE US LIZARD!)
And by the way, VENOM ROCKS! Sandman shouldn’t of been in the film at all! It was a crap idea with sandman. And also, who is Mysterio again? I’ve forgot! (Please don’t bite my head of!)

okay, vulture? old and lame. gimme electro or something. Not that it matters. whatever villains appear in it will probably die by the end like every other f-ing villain in his gallery. leave spidey a little rogues gallery!!

The carnage is the bomb and should come out in SPIDER MAN 4 and Jim carry should play the role. For one Jim carry is a great and funny actor and the carnage has dark humor also the carnage is crazy. Jim carry can play that easy like when he played split personality in the movie ME , MY SELF AND IRENE and that can play crazy and also in the old BATMAN FOREVER movie when he played the Riddler . Also in the movies BRUCE ALMIGHTY and in the movie YES MAN and many other movies has concluded as funny with him in it .I know he can take the role series like in the movie THE NUMBER 23 he was going crazy now combine all of that and you can get carnage .Please pick Jim carry for the role of carnage .

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