Robot 6

Quesada responds as Captain America‘s Tea Party controversy gains steam

From "Captain America" #602

From "Captain America" #602

Marvel Editor-in-Chief Joe Quesada says that while he can understand why some people are upset by a “tea bag” reference in Captain America #602, he thinks “there’s also a portion of this story that is being blown out of proportion and taken out of context.”

Some members of the Tea Party movement are offended by a scene in the January issue, Part 1 of the “Two Americas” storyline, which depicts an anti-tax rally in Boise, Idaho. Among the protesters is a sign that bears the slogan, “Tea Bag The Libs Before They Tea Bag YOU!”

That displeasure — from “a chorus of critics” — received national attention this morning in an article at FoxNews.com that quotes writer Ed Brubaker as saying the slogan wasn’t written by him but rather was added later in the production process.

“I don’t know who did it, probably someone who thought it was funny,” Brubaker wrote in an e-mail to Fox. “I didn’t think so, personally. That’s the sign being changed to something more generic for the trade reprint, because I and my editor were both shocked to see it.”

A board member of the Nationwide Tea Party Coalition isn’t buying Brubaker’s explanation, though, and accuses the writer of “blame-shifting.” Fox News reporter Joshua Rhett Miller goes so far as to quote a sampling of Brubaker’s Twitter comments as evidence of his “political leanings.”

But in the just-posted edition of Comic Book Resources’ “Cup o’ Joe,” Quesada said that “There was zero discussion to include a group that looked like a Tea Party demonstration. Ed simply wrote in an anti-tax protest into his story to show one of the moods that currently exists in America. There was no thought that it represented a particular group.”

Quesada goes on to explain how the slogan was included, with an editor asking a letterer to “just fudge in some quick signs” on a last-minute art correction. So the letterer searched online for slogans from actual protest placards, and ended up with the one in question.

“All that said, we caught the mistake two weeks ago, after it was printed and removed the sign from the art files so that it no longer appears in future reprints of the title or collections,” he said. “So, while the crowd protesting has nothing to do with the villains in the story, we in no way meant to say they were associated with the Tea Party movement, it was a simple perfect storm of screw-ups. It happens, we’re human.”

Quesada goes into more detail at CBR.

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89 Comments

Brubaker’s twitter account for evidence of “political leanings”? Are we on the verge of another snipe hunt because some conservatives got their panties in a bunch over a “Tea Bag” reference?

Like everything else about the Tea Party, this whole “controversy” is a lot of noise about absolutely nothing.

I’m proud to be an American, where at least I know I’m free to insult teabaggers.

@Sean:

Socialist!

I’m so sick of rich conservatives telling us what we can watch & read. Can’t they spend their money doing something then running everyone else’s lives?

I continue to not get why brubaker made a story about radical conservatives trying to overthrow obama. Then he threw in every offensive stereotype of conservatives that he could. Combine that with the B.S. going on in seige embedded, and you have a comic company that conservatives like me will grow to dislike reading.

The comic’s depiction of the protesters was incredibly mild compared to the real thing. If you’re offended by the actions of “radical conservatives,” take it up with them.

Boo Fucking Hoo.

What’s depicted in the comic looks like the real thing to me. Who cares?

Also… Cap and Falcon don’t really give a shit what they’re protesting in the comic in the first place

“Combine that with the B.S. going on in seige embedded,”

…Which would be what, exactly?

This is just plain bad business. As a retailer I can tell you, Marvel just alienated half of my market. We’re struggling enough as it is. We depend on Marvel to appeal to a wide audience for the good of the industry and this time they have let us down. You may think this was funny or cute but our retail shop is already on the edge. Why would you do this to us?

This is good news for Chuck Dixon comics!

You ever notice how everyone who is a “fiscal conservative” (IE- a tea party-er) only wants to cut spending OUTSIDE their home city/county/district/state? It’s OK for the government to spend billions on that military base, that road project, that new school or hospital when it’s in their area and will have an economic benefit to them, but when it’s two states over, it’s suddenly pork?

There’s a vocal sect of comic book readers that will loudly complain whenever something happens to their superheroes that even remotely reflects the current cultural/political zeitgeist–I cannot imagine a more mild take on teabaggers and their philosophy than this storyline. The offensive sign in question is completely, 100% based on a real sign and is not an “extreme” example in any way. In fact, Brubaker could have legitimately gone much further and included some really heinous material of the “Obama-is-a-Nazi” kind.

Quesada and Brubaker should not apologize for breaching this issue, and they should know that no amount of apologizing and capitulation is going to stop complaints of “liberal bias.” If anything, I am disappointed in Brubaker for basically throwing his letterer under the bus, even though what he did was, as far as I can tell, completely rooted in the reality of the mania of tea party-ism.

If a conservative comes along and thinks he can write a better Captain America than Brubaker, I welcome it. Otherwise, let Brubaker be himself, and don’t make asinine generalizations based on his Twitter posts.

Why is this even an issue? Can someone please tell why this is getting any attention what so ever? This is the problem with politics in America today, the details obscure the actual issues. If this or something like the Obama Joker photoshop affects you in anyway the problem does not lie with what offend your tender sensibilities. I beg everyone left, right, moderate, conservative, and liberal get over yourselves, America is not just one voice it is that of millions. When you shout proclaiming you are better than everyone else you are attacking the very heart of the American Way. We need less hysterics and vitriol, there are serious problems that need to be addressed with rational discussion. But hey if everyone wants to bitch and moan like little children while the country they claim to love collapses around them you are on the right path.

What’s the big deal? Tea bagger’s are a bunch of unhinged hateful, racists. That convention last weekend was like a Klan rally. Tom Tancredo, one of the top line speakers, said people who didn’t speak English or couldn’t read shouldn’t be allowed to vote, the same excuses for racism given before blacks gained voting rights.

So fiction can’t reflect real life anymore? I guess all 27 “Law & Order” shows need to be cancelled.

The big surprise is that any Tea Bagger has the skills to read a comic book – they can’t even spell their hateful signs correctly.

Marvel is sackless for even addressing this. Beyond wimpy. The mouse ears have been firmly implanted.

I slammed Fox “news” on their stupid forum.

Of course, my comments somehow didn’t make it to the board.

Captain America would be sickened by their propaganda machine.

I hope Brubaker and the rest of the staff don’t lose their heart.

Cap has always been around to fight for truth and honesty, regardless of the consequences.

He was there for the civil rights struggles, he was there for Vietnam, and he’s around now.

He represents the spirit of America. Not one demographic or the other.

It’s unfortunate that one of the lettering staff made such a blatantly biased change (funny, too), but the theme and context of the rest of the comic is well founded.

Hang in there guys, Cap would be proud!

Adam K. (in regards to Siege: Embedded)
“…Which would be what, exactly?”

I’m assuming he’s referring to Todd Keller, who is basically Glenn Beck. Norman Osborn is using him to cover the events going on in Asgard. So depending on how much you look into subtext and the like, it boils down to conservatives supporting the kind of guy who likes to throw sixteen year old girls off of bridges.

Who cares? Cap’n America sucks anyway.

I find all the Frontline/Embedded series to be poorly written in the way it over simplifies those who aren’t in love with Democrats or those that don’t hate Republicans.
It’s been a year since I’ve read Captain America but I never felt like it was out to make conservatives the bad guys so I accept Quesada’s explanation.

And yes I have seen many signs and heard some protesters at various “conservative” rallies that I have found to be ignorant. Just as I saw many signs and heard some protesters at various “liberal” rallies that I also found ignorant.

“TonyJazz
I’m so sick of rich conservatives telling us what we can watch & read.”

Sure. and I feel the same way about rich liberals. I don’t need them to tell me what I can watch, read, eat, drive, or what kind of light bulbs I should buy.

“Shaun M.
Like everything else about the Tea Party, this whole “controversy” is a lot of noise about absolutely nothing.”

That is a oversimplified statement.

“Sean T. Collins
I’m proud to be an American, where at least I know I’m free to insult teabaggers.”

Yes America is the greatest country in the world.

“rolando
You ever notice how everyone who is a “fiscal conservative” (IE- a tea party-er) only wants to cut spending OUTSIDE their home city/county/district/state?”

No. Not everyone who is a “fiscal conservative” feels that way.

“TopJack
February 10, 2010 at 11:43 am
What’s the big deal? Tea bagger’s are a bunch of unhinged hateful, racists.
The big surprise is that any Tea Bagger has the skills to read a comic book – they can’t even spell their hateful signs correctly.”

I regard your statements as ignorant.

“I continue to not get why brubaker made a story about radical conservatives trying to overthrow obama. Then he threw in every offensive stereotype of conservatives that he could. Combine that with the B.S. going on in seige embedded, and you have a comic company that conservatives like me will grow to dislike reading”

Get used to it. As long as far-right conservatives keep re-labelling things like equal opportunity as ‘socialism’ you’re going to get ripped on every damned corner until you all finally pull your head out your arse.

I take issue with Tea Party members being portrayed as rascists. That’s the real issue. Ed Brubaker wrote that part. Not some letterer. I’ve noticed since the Civil War series that the writers at Marvel are using the storylines as platforms for anti-conservative propaganda. Go ahead. It’s fine. But don’t be suprised when rebuttal occurs.

So…you can’t depict a realistic rally using actual rally placard slogans? How freakin’ fair and balanced is that, FOX, after you go out of your way to endorse such gatherings?

Can’t compute.

@Rick C – But the tea bag ref only came from the billboard text which WAS down to the letterer!

It just sickens me that Joey Q is having to make excuses for his company here.

The reference clearly shouldn’t offend anyone that doesn’t deserve offending; I know there are millions of sane, nice, non-racist convervatives out there but none of them would want to associate themselves with a stupid phrase like “tea bag the lib dems before they tea-bag you” would they? WOULD THEY?!?

There can’t be that many far-righties into comics, can there? Their custom can’t be worth that much? Just let them all f**k right off for all I care.

Hmm, I just read a page. Sam Wilson aka the Falcon says
“Which brings me too my earlier point… about infiltration. I don’t exactly see a black man from Harlem fitting in with a bunch of angry white folks”

I’ve seen black people at Tea Party protest and other “conservative rallies”. I’ve even seen speakers who are black. So who’s ignorant on that point, the Falcon or Brubaker? I’m a little disappointed but not shocked.

*BlueSpider
There can’t be that many far-righties into comics, can there? Their custom can’t be worth that much? Just let them all f**k right off for all I care.*

Really ignorant.

@brianobx Really? Tell me something nice about a “tea bagger” then. Enlighten me.

@brianobx

The Falcon was talking about infiltrating the White Supremacist group, not the protesters. Two different groups.

When did we start caring about a lunatic fringe of a political party? Come on. These Tea Party people are republicans that want to slander the current President after only a year in office, and rally around an idiot like Palin who needs crib notes to do basic interviews or give a simple speech. These ignorant people are dangerous.

Its a comic book. If you don’t like it-don’t read it. I don’t need oversensitive right-wingers censoring what I read.

Well BlueSpider, as for what I wrote, I found your statements “There can’t be that many far-righties into comics, can there?” and “Just let them all f**k right off for all I care.” ignorant. See if you can figure out why.

As for the Tea Party movement(for which I am not a part of) and finding something nice to say about a “tea bagger”, well I’ve heard things that I agree on as far a fiscal policy and opposition to what I believe are the socialist policies of the Obama administration. I doubt I agree with everything the grassroots and national platforms represent.

I just thought of something nice… I enjoyed the songs by conservative rapper Hi-Caliber. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7E0tVimcbmM&feature=related

sean p belcher

i see your point , havn’t read whole comie, but I’m not sure he isn’t suppose to infiltrate protest in order to get close to watchdogs.
but i have to get off computer now so look later….
It seems odd that a black guys would try to join the Watchdogs,,, didn’t that go bad with Battle Star in the 80′s.

Sean, after review I agree u are right about which group he was refering, but it’s the juxtoposition of his

and the image of the protesters that seems to blur the line, IMO.

Reading more about the issue I remember reading the page where Bucky(truck diver) throws out tax collector(Sam) while calling him Obama. Implying that right-wingers are racist.

IMO very few writers can portray characters whose politics they do not share.
Exceptions include Robert A Wilson and Frank Miller(who should work on more political satiar).

who said anything about cencership? Just stateing opinion. Freedom of speech, me, u, the tea party, and marvel comic all have it.

Edit
*his statement and juxtoposition

It’s weird to discover a Robert Anton Wilson fan who a) is conservative, and b) can’t spell satire or censorship.

brianobx
February 10, 2010 at 1:19 pm
i see your point , havn’t read whole comie, but I’m not sure he isn’t suppose to infiltrate protest in order to get close to watchdogs.
but i have to get off computer now so look later….
It seems odd that a black guys would try to join the Watchdogs,,, didn’t that go bad with Battle Star in the 80′s

I regard your statements as ignorant. (Wow, this is fun AND easy!)

I will say it louldly Teabaggers are scary and anti-American. I said it, they’re anti-American, I have yet to see one of them who isn’t deranged and has some entirely wrong headed notions of history and facts. I mean, these people applauded Tom Tancredo’s call for ‘literacy tests’. They’re either woefully ignorant or flat out racist.
They’re often ignorant Evangelicals/Christianists who think this country was founded by Evangelicals. It was founded by Deists whose idea of religion is about as far from Pat Robertson and Judge Roy Moore as you can get.

So, yeah, I could care less if they get up in arms, they’re a loud minority whose historical precedent lies in the Know-Nothings, and we all know how well that went, don’t we?

I don’t doubt they will cause a ruckus, but like the American Republican/Native/American Party before it the Tea Party will fail because at it’s core it’s rotten, full of racists, religious zealots and people just too plain stupid to make a lasting impression without violence.

I’m sad Quesada and Brubaker are backing down on this. They’re not doing anything that hasn’t been done before with the Watchdogs. It’s just Fox News is making everyone afraid of their pet cause.

And it’s Fox News, people.

BrianoBX:

Your response to every comment that doesn’t read as a love letter to Sarah Palin that was scribbled on your hand is, ‘You’re ignorant.”

You epitomize the nonsensical mentality of the right wing religious Taliban that you embrace that specializes in sophistry, canards and empty platitudes with zero context.

What a laughable failure you are.

Cat-2000
it’s true, as I said I Havnt read whole comic, so I am ignorant on the whole story
I am also ignorant on what is ib brubackers heart, so I try not to condem the guy.

I see your point… I should say what i think is ignorant instead of simply calling it so

so, to believe that right-wingers/ conservatives don’t read comic in large numbers is ignorant, IMO

And to believe that someone who us in the tea party or someone who supports thier rights to protest
can’t read a comic book, simply because someone(s) misspelled a protest sign, is ignorant, IMO

My light bulbs are the best light bulbs. I will make all of you buy my light bulbs.

Topjack
you appear to lack the knowledge that I( and I expect many in the tea party) don’t agree with or support Sarah Palin. Or the fact that many in the grassroots of the movement did not support this weekends national meeting.

I’m also agnostic but don’t feel the need to bash someone for being a christian.

I find it funny how mad some of u are getting. But the funniest is when u result to name calling and personal insults when your arguments fail to hold weight.
Bless America, not goddamn America
Both the tea party and code pink have extremist, but are allowed free speech.

Bless America

Argg, can’t post worth a shit with my iPod

I deserve to b flamed for sloppy posting

Ah, the Conservative and Disney love/hate relationship rears its head again; They love wagging their finger at Disney with one hand as much as they love handing them wads of cash at the movies or theme parks with the other hand. Marvel editorial should expect much more of this kind of attention in the future.

They can protest all they want, but let’s not pretend ignorant protesters are somehow going to scare the rest of us into doing what they want. This is a bunch of middle aged bitter Republicans (they call themselves Independents but I bet if you surveyed them they’d answer rote Republican answers and have voted largely Republican) who think they can scare everyone else into doing what they want.

Fox News used to poo poo larger protests from the left (Lefties love to protest), but now they actively support these protesters, the hypocrisy of Fox News is so thick it’s impossible for a sane person to watch the channel for more than a few minutes at a time.

And allow me to be clear, I don’t attack Christians. I attack Christianists and Evangelicals. A Christianist is a Christian who believes in the superiority of his religion like a racist believes in the superiority of his race, without question. Evangelicals are not all Christianists, but many are. Most maybe.

My point is, this country was founded by people who believed in freedom of religion, not the freedom to be whatever kind of Christian one prefers. Most of the Tea Party types don’t believe that. They are antithetical to the very idea of America IMO. Much like the Know Nothings were, with their anti-Catholic anti-immigrant stance.

I watched the tea party on C-SPAN over the summer and saw all kinds of people, white, black, latino, asian, men, women, old, and young.

Of course FOX is hypocritical, so is MSNBC. I strongly disagreed with many of the protest of the left of the years but that dosn’t mean I believe them to be awful people or all them ignorant. It’s called opinion.

“Evangelicals are not all Christianists, but many are. Most maybe.” not all, many, maybe most? seems like you have prejudices towards christians no matter how you try to spin it. But, because I don’t know you or what is in your heart(ie I am ignorant, lacking knowladge) I can only go with how I interpret what you write.

Andre3000 said it best when it comes to protesters….
The game changes everyday so obsolete is the fist and marches
Speeches only reaches those who already know about it
This is how we go about it

Too many people are willing to apologize for stuff that’s not offensive. I wish Quesada and Brubaker had chosen to ignore whatever the Teabaggers were saying — they have zero power anyway.

i really can’t understand how this blew up into such a big issue. it was, as said by quesada, a mistake due to publishing issues that has grossly been misinterpreted by some people.

i understand how people could be uncomfortable with the presence of the slogan in the comic book, “oh my god! it depicted a political party in a bad way! they must be socialist!” but we can’t always be apolitical in our work. humans, in nature, tend to choose a side, especially when it comes to politics and governance. to say that we can truly distance our political beliefs from our work, especially when your work is politically charged in nature (c’mon, it’s called captain america), is somehow ignorant and we have to accept the fact that it’s going to bleed out somehow. hey, it’s fiction. it was made from the creative mind of a person who has his own set of beliefs. that’s how he saw it in his head, how he thought it would be a good way to tell his story, then let’s leave at that, a way to forward his story. are there other ways? well, probably, but when brubaker thought his story through, he must have thought that including the protest was the best way for him to tell his story. if some political view bled into the comic book, then what can we do? it’s his story he’s telling.

i can’t help but wonder though, would have been as big as this if, say, it wasn’t in captain america, it was in a one of those second-tier titles, or if it wasn’t marvel who published it, say some independent publisher?

Sean T. Collins
February 10, 2010 at 1:43 pm

It’s weird to discover a Robert Anton Wilson fan who a) is conservative, and b) can’t spell satire or censorship.

I amaze people everyday.
Yes my spelling and grammer suck, but luckily that dosn’t stop me from being allowed to vote.

and I’m more conservative, libertarian, objectivist. RAW wasn’t a fan of Ayn Rand either.

Cabo

I’m not bothered that the protesters could be viewed as the tea party or the sign. For me it’s the repeated portrayal of conservatives as racist and hate-mongers(not the clone of Hitler).

I’d hate to see a Captain America comic where a) war protesters were portrayed as anarchist terrorist b) homosexuals portrayed as pedophiles, c) Pro-choice/abortion rights advocates(the definition is about perception) portrayed as genocidal child murders, d) black folks portrayed as inferior to white folks.

Of course I’m the person who didn’t find WhiteWash Jones to be a racist portrayal.

“if some political view bled into the comic book, then what can we do? ” Well we can voice our opinion.

@brianobx

hey, well yeah, it is getting a tad bothering that conservatives are being portrayed as racist or whatnot. but that doesn’t really only happen in comic books, don’t they? and it’s not really just the conservatives being bashed that way? the coin flips both ways. my point is that, speaking from a point of view of a writer, you can’t always stay apolitical. you can’t always be as objective as other people want you to be.

yeah, i wouldn’t really want to see a very intolerant captain america comic book. who would? but we have to remember, that no matter how much we say it’s supposed to reflect, one way or the other, the social climate of society as a whole, it’s a work of fiction bound by the ideas and perceptions of a human writer, amongst other humans who work on the book, and at the end of the day, if the people working on the book who believe it was the best way to tell their story, then we could just go with it and not really read it in other context other than it being a way to tell their story.

and, yeah, power to right of speech and the interwebs

cabo, I want to thank you for your well worded and intelligent comments.

I have nothing to debate other then I’m down with political and social commentary in comics, I just wish characters would be written a little smarter when it comes to their motivations.(M.O.D.O.K., Superboy Prime, Bruto, etc excluded).

@brianobx

i’m down with intelligent conversations. i haven’t had any in ages.

well, yes, i have to agree with you with that point. there are better ways to write characters, but sometimes we just have to stick with what we’ve got and work with it. not that i’m saying we have bad writers in the industry, just that sometimes it gets sloppy. hopefully they tighten their act up.

Personally, I would like to enjoy mainstream entertainment without having a leftist agenda crammed down my throat at every opportunity. I’m disappointed that Marvel Comics chose to alienate half the country by denigrating their beliefs. And all of you who’ve posted hateful comments regarding conservatives — who are the “intolerant” ones NOW? Who are the bigots here?

The Tea Party represents half the country?

Actually, Kevin, they represent 100% of REAL America.

Jacovny: “Who are the ‘intolerant’ ones NOW? Who are the bigots here?”

Conservatives. Glad we’ve gotten that cleared up!

you are
no you are
you are bad I am good
I am good you are bad

Conservatives are racist stupid christians and steel money from the poor
Liberals are communist baby killers and steel money from everyone

Bush is a Nazi, Obama is not
Obama is a Nazi, Bush is not

You don’t agree with me so you a bigot
I don’t agree with you so I am superior

Pro super-hero registration supporters are nazis
anti super-hero registration supporters are traitors

Red Lantern Corp is good, Red Hulk bad
Two Captain Americas are good, 3 Flashes are bad

Glad we got that settled.
We have gridlock.

Uh, okay, let’s actually TALK ABOUT THE COMIC BOOK.

The protesters are not portrayed in a negative light. Period. They are there. The racists in the redneck par are not the protesters, they’re racists in a redneck bar, a basic conceit of the redneck bar sequence is that most rednecks are racists.

The Watchdogs have been around for two decades, they are extremist opportunists who lean to the right. They are not the protesters. They are using the sentiments of the protesters to justify their wanton violence. Just like they did with the Moral Majority types in the 80s when they were having fun blowing up adult book stores.

The Tea Partiers are no more the target of this comic than the Moral Majority was in the 80s.

This is nothing Marvel hasn’t done before, it’s just those being portrayed in the book are dumber and meaner than they used to be and take ANY depiction that isn’t from Fox News as an attack.

When Conservatives stop pretending the 50s were the Best Time Ever, then maybe they can whine about being called racists. Anyone who wishes to go back to ‘simpler times’ IMO is just couching their racism in pretty language.

The past is not what Conservatives pretend it to be, which is why they tend to infuriate me. The past sucked. Nothing in the past is worth going back to, I do not trust any human being who wants to go BACK.

Which is why I’m not a fan of conservatives.

brianobx couldn’t spell box if you spotted him the B and the O.

@DrunkJack

well on the page that I have read Sam does make the statement “so I guess the whole ‘hate the government vibe’ around here isn’t limited to the Watchdogs”, now I may be stretching but in a way he(Sam) is comparing the protesters to the Watchdogs.

And again there is the juxtipostion of “I don’t exactly see a black man from Harlem fitting in with a bunch of angry white folks” and the image of the protesters.

Subtext and context.

It can’t be pretended that the possibility of a connection between the Watchdogs and Tea Party isn’t presented here.
Throw in Civil War as a obvious allegory to the War on Terror,
WWHulk as a obvious allegory to Hurricane Katrina,
Todd Keller(compared to a Fire Giant in Siege Embedded #2) aka Glenn Beck supporting Osborn,
and American citizen who didn’t vote for Obama supporting a nuclear strike against Asgard, despite the obvious damage that would be inflicted on US soil(once again in Embedded #2) .
Of course this is insulting to those who don’t wear Fox news or MSNBC blinders.

Like Micheal Jordan once said “Republicans buy shoes, too.” So do people who didn’t vote for Obama or don’t agree with his polices.
This isn’t just a writer telling a story, it’s a company making a business decision to supporting a particular side in a political argument(s), showcased in high profile comic book titles.

Alan Coil
February 10, 2010 at 5:51 pm

brianobx couldn’t spell box if you spotted him the B and the O.

bocks,, boks.. botx.. boex.. bosx

dammit he’s right :(

“So do people who didn’t vote for Obama or don’t agree with his polices.”

And if they can’t bare to have their beliefs questioned, they’re not worth caring about. They’re loud boisterous cowards who can’t take criticism.

And a liberal black man from Harlem like Sam wouldn’t fit in with Teabaggers. Let’s not pretend he wouldn’t. He doesn’t agree with their sentiments, but to pretend like characters cannot have points of view is, well, retarded.

These two characters have distinct POVs, if USAgent was around he’d be more sympathetic, no one on the left would be bothered at all by that because they seem to understand the difference between acknowledging a character and inserting your POV into a comic inorganically.

If I was writing USAgent, whom I don’t agree with on much of anything besides loving this country, I’d have no problem portraying him as a decent if somewhat arrogant and blustery right leaning loudmouth. That’s his character. Sam Wilson is a black social worker from Harlem. He is not going to be a Republican. They don’t grow many black Republican social workers in Harlem (there aren’t many Republican Social workers either, probably).

And Bucky has spent a good long while working for the Soviets, and Russians, he’s hardly going to be impressed by people whining about taxes.

“Of course this is insulting to those who don’t wear Fox news or MSNBC blinders.”

Uh, Glenn Beck is a legitimate whackjob, anyone who thinks he wouldn’t fall for a guy like Norman Osborn isn’t paying attention, this is a man who has called the President a racist, isn’t able to discern the difference between Nazis, Socialists, Commies and Progressives, spends 5 hours a week spewing half truths, lies and misinformation.

Seriously, any sane person who watches Glenn Beck and isn’t infuriated is a retard.

Yeah, a retard.

@brianobx, in your multiple choice, (a) was very common in the 1970′s. Angar the Screamer was a war protester (and druggie) until Moondragon powered him up — since then a ruthless and sadistic killer. And he’s far from the only one. All comics tend to be pretty right-wing to my view — might makes right, tough on crime, etc. There have been ecoterrorist villains (Cheetah at DC for starters), all drug users are just evil in comics. And don’t get me started on the history of ethnic stereotypes and libels (from the Mandarin to Brother Blood) in comics.

I’m inclined to stay that Brubaker was writing a story about how people can be manipulated into violence, and how scapegoating is easy. And that conservatives who are offended are not offended because this isn’t true, but rather because they hate being reminded that the tools of communication they use carry with them the capacity for great harm. Liberals hate being reminded of this too, but that wasn’t what was up in this story. For the other side, please check out any issue of the Punisher, Daredevil, etc.

I’m not afraid of critism Jack, I’m stating my opinoin.
I have read and understood many stories in my life where different points of view r expressed. My beliefs are questioned everyday and that’s ok. I’m simply saying marvel has been pushing one side of the argument and it can hit them in thier pockets at some point.
Of corse Sam and bucky have different view points(maybe) then conservatives but where r the characters that do? Well, they seem to always be portrayed negatively. Let’s see a positive conservative that isn’t a sterotype.
Does a conservative have to be a brash loudmouth? If green arrow was the only liberal in comics that would
seem silly to me.
Come on Jack, you make it too easy when u imply that to not get enraged at Beck makes one insane. Come on, I know u know better. Not everyone is going to see the world like u do but that dosn’t make it wrong, it just dosn’t.
Your arguments loose alot of steam when u throw around words like retarded. I know u can voice a strong statement without name calling.
Reread all my comments, u should see that while u don’t agree with me I have not tried to be insulting and am simply passionitly(yes can’t spell) about what I think. Take lessons from cabo. My girlfriends son had cerable p. so I’ve become a little sensitive of that word when used to b hurtful.

@ Krisk
thank u for your examples and post
u make good points
as to your statements as to why conservatives don’t like this comic, well I’ve listed my reasons, so I hope I am judged on what I have written and not on what is assumed I think

peace, back to sleep, my 6 week vacation is over tomorrow, and I leave this comment section to others now

like dr green said on his last episode of E… Be kind

@DrunkJack: “The past is not what Conservatives pretend it to be, which is why they tend to infuriate me. The past sucked. Nothing in the past is worth going back to, I do not trust any human being who wants to go BACK.”

Conservatives are not what liberals pretend them to be, which is why they tend to get annoyed at such portrayals. Are there loons on the fringes of any gathering or organization? Of course there are. There are just as many offensive idiots in a gay pride parade as there are in a Tea Party rally. Does that negate the message of the gay pride parade?

When Conservatives speak of the 50′s (which, I must confess, I haven’t personally heard any Conservative voice do in years), they are not pining for the ‘Good Ol’ Days’ when minorities and women ‘knew their place’ and the rich white guys could rule from on high with their cigars and top hats. They are pining for the days before massive entitlement programs, before unlimited and unrestrained federal government and bureaucracies, before social engineering disasters like the New Deal, before people started looking to Washington D.C. for everything.

True, genuine, honest conservatism believes in the ability of the individual to improve his/her own life, and that the best and most responsive government starts at the local level. Yes, this might mean some people will have harder lives than others. Yes, this means life will not be ‘fair’. Yes, this means the utopian ideal of pristine equality is abhorrent and repulsive. Race, ethnicity, gender, or any other form of identity politics is, believe it or don’t, completely foreign and irrelevant to a truly conservative worldview.

I’d much rather live in a nation where I have the ability and the freedom to make my own choices and my own decisions, within a framework of law and justice, than in one where Someone Else makes them for me.

Conservatives by definition don’t want anything to change, thus they are constantly fixated on the past.

The world moves forward, and they are left behind.

“Race, ethnicity, gender, or any other form of identity politics is, believe it or don’t, completely foreign and irrelevant to a truly conservative worldview.”

So, what you’re saying is, the conservative worldview is “colorblind”, like Stephen Colbert, right?

Then how come so many racists call themselves conservatives and come down on the conservative side of most issues? Because they know conservatism’s dirty little non-secret.

Because what you’re saying is what my racist conservative granddad would call “horse hockey”.

You can’t remove pining for a world without ‘entitlement’ programs without realizing that that world ALSO kept a LOT of people out of the system you so love, it forcibly kept them out at times. It worked because it EXCLUDED. It didn’t work because it worked, it worked because it was exclusionary and insular, not because it was truly good for everyone, every straight white male maybe (I say this as a straight white male, no guilt, just facts) but the rest of the populace was held down by those people, kept ‘in their place’.

Simply put, the 50s sucked for anyone who wans’t a straight white male, and history shows that, so why on earth would anyone but straight white males want to go back tot that?

And secretly, that’s what most conservatives want, look at the faces of the biggest conservative commentators, writers, and politicians. Most of them pasty white males. 95% For every Thomas Sowell, there’s a dozen Rush Limbaughs, Jonah Goldbergs, Sean Hannitys and Bill O’Reillys. It doesn’t fool most everyone else. Might fool you, but I know people who are more interested in a time when they could do whatever they wanted and the ‘rabble’ was kept in line.

In the end, this is why the conservative movement will always fail, it’s inherently racist, inherently retrograde and the majority would suffer in the perfect ‘conservative’ world.

Don’t let’s pretend anymore that conservatism isn’t a white man’s movement. It just is, and that is why it will fail.

And I say this as someone who might could have a better life in a ‘conservative’ world. I could play their game, I’m not particularly fond of humanity, I could easily fall into the rut of hating people because of their skin color and gender easily, I was raised in a suburb around people who fall into that way of thinking easily.

But I think for myself, I didn’t choose an easy way out. I thought for myself. I’m not liberal by any stretch, I’m a pragmatist, if a ‘conservative’ notion worked, I’d be for it, most of them don’t.

I find the defense of conservatism to be generally lacking, there’s no real defense of it, the facts speak against it. It’s a dead scene, man. Find a way out of it before the world leaves you in the dust.

“I’d much rather live in a nation where I have the ability and the freedom to make my own choices and my own decisions, within a framework of law and justice, than in one where Someone Else makes them for me.”

According to general conservative consensus this does not apply to women who don’t want to have a baby, or anyone who wants to partake in drugs not approved by the federal government, or gays who want to be treated like human beings. The conservative idea of freedom is very limited and hypocritical.

It is reassuring to learn that everything I believe is fundamentally wrong, close-minded, and based on racist lies, while everything you believe about what I believe is grounded in evidence, fact, and unassailable truth.

Thank you for opening my eyes.

Such ‘thoughtful’ ‘open minded’ folk commenting here.

“(converstive views are) inherently racist”

“comic’s depiction of the protesters was incredibly mild compared to the real thing”

“Can’t they spend their money doing something then running everyone else’s lives?” (didnt dems just take over a bunch of banks and 2 car companies? i forget)

“Tea Party will fail because at it’s core it’s rotten, full of racists, religious zealots and people just too plain stupid to make a lasting impression without violence” “violence? when? when they beat an old man in a wheel chair, oh wait that was a SEIU thug, when they rioted in seattle and pittsburgh? oh that was liberal G20 ‘protestors’, when they left the national mall looking like a trash heap? oh that was obamas inauguration….)

“You ever notice how everyone who is a “fiscal conservative” (IE- a tea party-er) only wants to cut spending OUTSIDE their home ” (proof please?)

“There can’t be that many far-righties into comics, can there? Their custom can’t be worth that much? Just let them all f**k right off for all I care”

“really heinous material of the “Obama-is-a-Nazi” kind.” (do you care to acknowledge al the liberal bush = hilter signs? from the past years)

“Tell me something nice about a “tea bagger” then. Enlighten me.”

“Tea bagger’s are a bunch of unhinged hateful, racists.”

Stay Classy Liberals!

@Jack

You assume alot about people you have never met.
And you could not be more wrong.

The fifties fucking sucked.

Also, this whole issue is completely moronic and anyone who complained about a non-offensive representation of an extremely offensive political movement is a fucking baby. I don’t remember liberals threatening to quit reading DC Comics when The Dark Knight Strikes Again came out.

Take a jab, you Goddamn weenies.

I remember the bush administration being made fun of in DKSA.

I don’t know what’s more laughable and revolting here, the Tea Bagger’s ridiculously thin-skinned indignation or Marvel’s spineless caving. Comic book characters like Frank Miller’s Batman regularly trash liberals and scoff at the very notion of individual rights and liberties, and we don’t hear a whimper of protest. Any intelligent reader understands that it’s literature and that in literature authors often express a certain point of view. But someone takes even an oblique shot at the heroic Tea Baggers, and they immediately erupt into knee-jerk, hysterical outrage.

It’s also ironic that a company that has made it’s living chronicling the adventures of fearless, larger-than-life heroes is apparently run by a bunch Barney-Fife-like jellyfish. Maybe Marvel should drop its entire roster of super-heroes and come up with a new batch of characters that more closely reflect the character of the company’s management.

Anyone up for the adventures of Captain Craven?

The harder people try to defend this comic, the more I’m positive it was intended as liberal propaganda. It is what it is.
Perception is reality.

“Republicans buy shoes too” – Michael Jordan

@drfell -Comic book characters like Frank Miller’s Batman regularly trash liberals and scoff at the very notion of individual rights and liberties, and we don’t hear a whimper of protest.

Ha. Where have you been? Frank Miller gets blasted all the time for his writing. Miller also hits conservatives. He writes political satire most of the time.

“Any intelligent reader understands that it’s literature and that in literature authors often express a certain point of view. But someone takes even an oblique shot at the heroic Tea Baggers, and they immediately erupt into knee-jerk, hysterical outrage.”

If you read the comments in these post you’d see most of the arguments criticizing Marvel/this comic have been more then just about a “oblique shot” members of the tea party.

I haven’t heard anyone here asking to censor Marvel comics are free speech. We are just offering our opinions. Don’t conservative and conservative minded people have a right to voice their thoughts?

I’m glad Marvel has the right to publish this comic. Production wise, it’s a great comic book. I just don’t have to buy it.

People protest Bush policies – “Dissent is patriotic” -Nancy Pelosi (D)

People protest Obama/liberal policies – “unamerican” -Nancy Pelosi (D) “political terrorist” -Baron Hill (D) “Extermist Mobs” – DNC

Can you spot the hipocrisy? probaly not……

I agree that writers can write whatever they want. That’s fine. I actually want to encourage Ed Brubaker and others like him to continue writing. Go ahead. Say whatever you want. Just be prepared for your works to be identified as liberal propaganda and questioned. Why hide it? Why deny it? Why can’t I disagree with the liberal point of view? Why are conservatives stereotyped as rascist? Who told you that all/only/alot of conservatives are rascists? Are only conservatives rascist? Why do liberals get so angry and offensive when questioned? Why is it ok to try to scare me into silence with labels and name calling?

@brianobx – Where I’ve been is largely away from the comics scene for a long while. But this controversy caught my attention.

I have no doubt that Miller has received criticism for his work. Nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with critcizing Brubaker’s work. But some Tea Baggers were demanding a retraction and/or apology. That’s a whole different thing.

I wasn’t accusing anyone here of advocating censorship. To be honest, I hadn’t even read any of the previous posts before I submitted mine. My criticisms were aimed squarely at the Tea Baggers who were bringing pressure to bear on Marvel to censor their product.

I’m actually less disgusted by the Tea Baggers’ actions in this than I am by Marvel’s folding up like wet cardboard. I don’t expect much from folks like the Tea Baggers. But I think anyone who publishes anything has a moral responsibility to at least make a feeble effort at taking a stand for freedom of expression. Apparently, that’s too much to ask of the moral cowards in charge at Marvel.

@Rick C: “The harder people try to defend this comic, the more I’m positive it was intended as liberal propaganda. It is what it is.”

Color me old-fashioned, but I merely read the issue and formulated my opinion on it based solely on the material at hand, independent of any views others might have on it. It’s crazy, I know. But I promise it worked out fine for me and didn’t hurt a bit.

When Conservatives speak of the 50′s (which, I must confess, I haven’t personally heard any Conservative voice do in years), they are not pining for the ‘Good Ol’ Days’ when minorities and women ‘knew their place’ and the rich white guys could rule from on high with their cigars and top hats. They are pining for the days before massive entitlement programs, before unlimited and unrestrained federal government and bureaucracies, before social engineering disasters like the New Deal, before people started looking to Washington D.C. for everything.

Uh, mister, do you know diddly-squat about history? You seem to have your chronology more messed up than a football bat.

Back on topic, the Teabagger outrage ensures that any extant copies of this comic are sure to increase in value.

I think this is Ridiculous this controversy as they like to say is not much to get over. I mean I consider myself to be a Republican yet I don’t think this thing is offensive. So they deal with the Watchdogs a Marvel version of KKK. The Tea Bag comment is these days common. This is probable one of the biggest reasons why Brubaker decided to kill Cap in the first place mainly he didn’t want him to be sucked into this Partisan snipe. I say it has no agenda or partisan view it is just a story which so happens to have an edgy and yet touching the times we are living. I didn’t hear roars of protest in the Death of Captain America story in which protesters blamed the government when Red Skull orchestrated a massacre of civilians during what appears as their slant on the Credit Crisis. I mean come on people this is a Comic book story there is nothing to get worked up about. I mean I may disagree with some economic policies of the government but this comic book story is not bashing people who disagreed with the government.

Bottom line this is a story in the usual great Marvel tradition I read since I was a kid. Can be for those older as well but it is not a partisan debate session. All in all if this ever comes in Graphic format which I buy now a days I am game.

I’m tired of hearing conservatives complain about unfair treatment. The conservative movement in this country is using the ugliest of language to create strife and conflict between as many of us as possible. They are obstructionists, racists, homophobes and fundamentalists no better than the Islamic variety they rail against.

The tea-baggers represent the worst of Democracy and free speech. The only thing they lack at their rallies are burning crosses and hooded robes. Somehow they feel free to say or do anything while the rest of us are to treat them with civility and respect. If they want to act like fools, they should be treated like fools.

Why are people up in arms about conservatives being offended?

I’m a little miffed about the way Idahoans are once again erroneously typecast as racist hicks.

I’ve lived in Idaho for over 20 years. The Falcon wouldn’t be any less comfortable here than anywhere else.

I am surprised at how much attention this is getting, and how many arguments it has started. I am of the opinion that you should always be able to criticize the government as well as criticize those who try to influence the government. But the real reason I felt the need to point out something that no one else seems to notice. It is a funny sign. Maybe it is a regional term that isn’t used across America but to Teabag someone is both funny and gross. If I were writing a comic and wanted protest signs I would do the same thing search the internet and print the ones I thought were the best. And that is a pretty good sign regardless of your opinion of the message.

It’s funny, last week I was called a racist conservative nazi for my postings on the Captain America Tea Party controversy and now I’m called a left wing communist because I don’t like the N-word.

http://www.youtube.com/user/iyannaw08

Not surprising at all; the entire movement is generally made up of bratty, self-centered children who are quick to scream and holler at any offense, perceived or otherwise. That’s why their NATIONAL CONFERENCE had wack job ‘birthers’ receiving standing ovations. I can’t imagine the outrage if Marvel actually printed a sign presenting the actual views that some of the Tea Party’s most prized figures hold.

I don’t know why “The Tea Party” is so upset because freerepublic.com posted the “you teabag the liberal dems before they teabag you!” slogan on their website and a reteaparty.com blog post ran under the headline “Teabag the fools in D.C. on tax day!”

Here is a photograph of one”Tea Party” member proudly displaying the supposedly “offensive” sign at an actual demonstration.

http://washingtonindependent.com/31868/scenes-from-the-new-american-tea-party

So, I don’t think who ever did thought it was funny so much as historically accurate and Marvel as well as Brubaker have no reason to be so apologetic.

I’ve read through a lot of these comments and I find it amusing. Actually it is funny that “brianobx” is attacked for making rational arguments and rightly calling people ignorant when they make mean-spirited comments with no substance to back them up.

Bottom line is freedom of speech but let the politics fly both ways in the comics or keep it vanilla…which would be boring! Kids don’t need a political agenda shoved down their throats. They are already getting that from Hollywood in general and large newspapers. How about a crazy left-wing Peta group that kills all meat-eaters and Cap and Falcon have to stop them at all costs!!!

Question- would everyone of you folks be singing Marvel’s praise and right to freedom of speech if Captain America made some comment about Obama being racist for having attended Reverend Wright’s church for 20 years. You same people would be whining like crazy. And rightly so, there would be no place for that garbage either. I do commend Quesada for apologizing…even though I don’t necessarily believe the “accident”. Bad business as someone else mentioned…maybe not half of the comics’ market is Republican but a lot more than you think.

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