Robot 6

Quote of the day | Tom Brevoort on the DC Entertainment announcements

Tom Brevoort

Tom Brevoort

“And hey, congrats to @GeoffJohns0 and @JimLee00 and the twitterless Dan DiDio on their new promotions and responsibilities. Although it does feel a lot like @axelalonsomarv’s and my announcement a while ago: ‘Same Guys Continue To Do Things!’ Seems more like a ratification of a system that was already in place than an actual change. But now @richjohnston can stop combing Diane Nelson’s Facebook account looking for photos of her friends.”

Tom Brevoort, recently promoted vice president-executive editor of Marvel, tweeting about DC Entertainment’s newly announced executive management team

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Good old Brevoort, always knows how to kick a man when he’s on top.

I hear you ‘bird. No class.

the more i hear from Brevoort, the more I wish he’d shut up.

What “kicking” are you two seeing? I’m pretty sure you’re crazy.

I’m pretty sure Johns, Lee, and Didio aren’t even a fraction as butthurt as some of you people are.

DC fanboy/girlism the past few months has made sports fans look uncommitted and apathetic in comparison. In a shocking twist, a leading figure in an industry gave his honest commentary on recent events in that industry. What the hell do you expect him to say? Should he just shut up about anything that doesn’t involve Marvel? Would you ever demand that of any equivalent figure in ANY other industry?

All he did was compare it to the shifting of positions that happened at Marvel. Nothing radical happened. It was the same top names getting different titles. That’s all, and that’s all Brevoort said. He was just pointing that out.

Stop getting bent out of shape, Brevoort has always been extremely candid and he’s more than welcome to his own opinion.

People expect him to say nothing or to wish his peers well. That’s generally considered the professional standard.

Its generally not considered professional to spend your time commenting negatively upon the competition in public. You do see athletes doing this. You do not see coaches or team managers doing this, especially unsolicited. And you will be hard pressed to find anyone in any other field demonstrating this behavior. Some people find it off putting as the behavior is considered “boorish”.

Brevoort can get away with this at Marvel as they’ve developed a certain culture (time will tell if Disney will put up with this once they notice one of their upper-guys bought a comic company). But, you know, if you really think “how can he NOT say something?” and genuinely don’t know: I welcome any of you to try to speak publicly for your company on your blog while taking digs at the competition and see how long you remain employed.

Well, as far as I can tell half of Apple is still employed.

And Brevoort wasn’t even insulting DC here, he was just commenting that these are the same faces in different positions, and he’s right. The only person he took a real swing at was Rich Johnston.

Brevoort has already been made to look like a jackass after Siege flopped maybe he should spend less time on twitter and more time on fixing the failure that is Bendis latest trainwreck.

Is 108,484 issues sold a flop?

Something is wrong on the internet!

It’s not even true, I used LinkedIn.

Adam, Civil War sold 400,000

hey Kevin M and others: That Guy touched on some of it already, but it’s the passive aggression of the comment that is unprofessional. It’s like when people comment with that lovely word, “meh”. And like it or not, historically speaking it’s a new type of move for the comics-related industry. Rather than simply saying ‘congrats’, he immediately makes it about him.

To David Uzumeri, Debaser, and others: Mr. Brevoort certainly has a right to say whatever he wants. As do I. I think he’s an unprofessional jerk who should be quiet. I’m curious as to why you folks are leaping to his defense. If I have a negative opinion of him, what’s it to you? Were you guys promised free Deadpool comics for defending him?

It’s snark, but also self-deprecating. No harm, no foul.

And Rich Johnston is a yentah. Film at 11.

Tom B, there’s plenty of differences between this announcement and yours; the main one being ‘talent’

Seriously, what did they ever give this tool a promotion for? Failing to spot all those continuity errors in New Avengers?

Unfortunately, it comes on the heels of some crappy comments about DC made recently. At some point, I wish he would have the sense to say congrats and leave it at that. Better yet, why not explain why Marvel books charge 3.99 for 22 pages of art? Now that, I’d like his opinion on.

Exactly. I just don’t understand the mentality they’re farming over at Marvel with that and all the Action Comics #900 jabs and Deadpool variant crap.

It’s not healthy because it polarises the fan community even further which can hurts sales – on both sides – and be bad news for comics in general.

But even when Marvel were asking retailers to rip up DC comics, Geoff Johns only twitter comment on the matter was to commend the maker of that Downfall/Fruit Basket mash-up on YouTube. No reaction is the best reaction when things get THAT childish.

But what got my goat the most though was that mock-up cover of a Spiderman & Batman team-up in ASM 600 with a ‘cease and desist’ and ‘dont even think abiut it’ note slapped on from Tom B and co. The irony of course being that this team up already happened in the 90’s – I own a copy!

WTF is wrong with everyone getting along?

Brevoort’s thinking the same thing i was — it’s not a change, but rather a short series of promotions (at least on the creative side of things). the DC press releases are just making it sounds like a huge regime change. and the other two new executives are entertainment industry vets. that’s not to say it’s not a great thing for everyone involved — it’s just to say that this isn’t some sort of huge radical new thing.

I understand if you don’t like his comments, but this whole idea that Brevoort is lashing out now that DC is top dog is just plain incorrect and not true. A cursory look at a market share comparison should make that OVERWHELMINGLY clear.

And Rich, comparing Siege’s sales numbers to Civil War is complete bullshit and you know it. It’s a far worse economy than it was in 2006, and people don’t have as much disposable income. The ceiling’s moved down from 300k to about 100k, and Siege is still at the ceiling, selling about as much as Green Lantern and Blackest Night.

And before some asshat accuses me of some sort of Marvel bias, or having my asshole wrapped around Brevoort’s dick, or whatever childish insult: yes, Marvel is producing far more comic books I enjoy lately, but I’ve got a lot of love for Johns, Morrison, Rucka, even the reviled Robinson, and a lot of the other talented people at DC. I’m enjoying Blackest Night; it knows what it is and goes for it, balls-out. Both it and Siege deserve to be successes. But DC is thick-skinned enough to take a joke about their crackerjack prizes, and MORE than thick-skinned enough to take some not-even-deprecatory industry commentary.

Where was everyone shitting on Erik Larsen every time he favorably compared Image’s books to Marvel and DC’s event churn?

The whole Marvel vs. DC makes no sense. If you don’t read DC because you don’t like Superman it doesn’t mean that Marvel is better. Its the same if you hate the X-Men, that doesn’t automatically make DC a better company. I think that the blogosphere and the companies have done a good job creating this “Brand Loyalty” type of thing.

Everyone can appreciate friendly rivalry, but in vague chronological order we have;

*ASM#600 with that Spider-man & Batman mock-up; “NEVER GONNA HAPPEN GUYS!”…Really? Why the hell not?

*Soliciting Marvel titles (Deadpool, Deadpool Team-Up, Wolverine) with made-up #900 numberings to beat DC’s Action Comics to it’s well earned anniversary issue…Three times over.

*There was that whole “Marvel aren’t we great” interview on the ‘Rama not so long ago with Bendis and co where they spent the whole time comparing the Avengers to the Justice League, saying DC characters all have the same voice. Unlike, say, the like wow, Um, What-eh-ver, yada-yada New Avengers…?!?

*(Granted, this is speculation) Quesada pushing Cap’s rebirth ahead of Bru’s original plans, yanking Hitch off F4 and turning the title into a £3.99 event – just so they could have something to compete with Blackest Night.

*Having Marvel Zombies variant covers satirise recent Blackest Night covers.

*Quesada, in response to DCU’s Earth 1 news, repeatedly proclaiming OGN’s as a waste of time even though they’re not. At all.

*Asking retailers to rip up saleable DC comics in exchange for a Deadpool variant.

*Mark Millar thinking he was very funny slapping ‘What If Batman was a c**t?’ on a house ad for his new *cough* ‘creation’.

*Tom B letting out a trollsome ‘meh’ about the Geoff Johns/Jim Lee/Dan Didio news…

*Oh, and have you noticed the sudden onslaught of David Finch variants in the solits?

Classy…

I mean, my ‘rama user avatar is a mash-up of Blue Beetle and Spider-man because I love both characters. All they’re really doing is alienating fans like me who enjoy both companies, when in fact if they really gave a damn about “getting comics back out there” (Which is Joe’s own manifesto) they’d be trying to club together where possible and work on ways to help the industry as a whole, not just themselves.

And I have to stress that if DC consistently had the larger share of the market and were constantly ripping on Marvel, I’d be just as pissed at DC. If you kick the underdog then you’re an asrehole by default.

I guess the part where he said “congrats” was classless too.

I have always been a DC guy–probably because it was DC’s mythology I was first exposed to. Having said that–I still prefer DC, still connected to the characters, but dabble into Marvel from time to time. Aaron’s Punisher being the most recent example, as well as the OZ adaptations for my nieces. What I don’t like about Breevort’s comments, because he isn’t Marvel, is that it smacks of old timey snake oil sales pitches. Sure DC offered a “crackerjack” promotion, but who cares? Why not focus on your own business model with an eye to the industry and the market. I don’t wade into Marvel books because I am already quite invested in DC and Marvel’s higher price point will keep me from buying their books. I must admit, I also prefer DC to Marvel for the simple fact that as long as I have been on this earth Marvel has dominated the market share and I have always cheered for the underdog–though I am not sure who that would be between WB or Disney? What Marvel has done really well is to flood the market with cheap trade paper backs–just go into any used book store/inventory clearance books and you will find tonnes of Marvel TPBs. They are like the Gideons of the comic industry, trying to convert others one sleazy motel at a time.

*ASM#600 with that Spider-man & Batman mock-up; “NEVER GONNA HAPPEN GUYS!”…Really? Why the hell not?
– Because they pitched it and the DC higher-ups wouldn’t let it happen, because Paul Levitz was upset at Joe Quesada for some of his comments, which at the time WERE admittedly immature, and things he wouldn’t say today as a more experienced professional businessman.

*Soliciting Marvel titles (Deadpool, Deadpool Team-Up, Wolverine) with made-up #900 numberings to beat DC’s Action Comics to it’s well earned anniversary issue…Three times over.
– Two times over. Deadpool Team-Up is the same title as Deadpool #900. I can’t explain the Wolverine thing, but why not just slam DC for making fun of Civil War during Final Crisis: Superman Beyond? Or Paul Levitz’s “Our competition might be building a house, but we build a universe” crack in the letter in Prelude to Infinite Crisis?

*There was that whole “Marvel aren’t we great” interview on the ‘Rama not so long ago with Bendis and co where they spent the whole time comparing the Avengers to the Justice League, saying DC characters all have the same voice. Unlike, say, the like wow, Um, What-eh-ver, yada-yada New Avengers…?!?
– Totally subjective, and just the opinions of the creators, many of whom have already worked on DC characters.

*(Granted, this is speculation) Quesada pushing Cap’s rebirth ahead of Bru’s original plans, yanking Hitch off F4 and turning the title into a £3.99 event – just so they could have something to compete with Blackest Night.
– This is fucking ridiculous.

*Having Marvel Zombies variant covers satirise recent Blackest Night covers.
– Marvel Zombies covers do nothing but satirize everything. It’s a joke comic. They’re all satirizations of famous zombie/monster/horror flicks, etc. Doing Blackest Night covers isn’t making fun of it, it’s practically a canonization.

*Quesada, in response to DCU’s Earth 1 news, repeatedly proclaiming OGN’s as a waste of time even though they’re not. At all.
– He was doing this for YEARS before DCU’s Earth One news. It’s an opinion I wholly disagree with him on, but it’s in no way a response to Earth One. He was pulling out that line of reason years ago.

*Asking retailers to rip up saleable DC comics in exchange for a Deadpool variant.
– This is the standard procedure for all returns across the entire periodical industry, and the whole ripping up = defacing thing is basically a bad meme that keeps being spread. It’s not true. ALL RETURNED COMICS ARE SEND AS STRIPPED COVERS TO SAVE RETAILERS SHIPPING COSTS.

*Mark Millar thinking he was very funny slapping ‘What If Batman was a c**t?’ on a house ad for his new *cough* ‘creation’.
– Mark Millar is not Marvel Comics. That’s a creator-owned title, AND Marvel and Millar backed off on the entire angle once he was called on it. And that line was never in a house ad.

*Tom B letting out a trollsome ‘meh’ about the Geoff Johns/Jim Lee/Dan Didio news…
– What the hell is trollsome about it? It’s his opinion, and it’s one a lot of people share. Why is he legally obligated to cheer on everything? He’s an industry member, he’s commenting on the industry. This happens in almost every industry.

*Oh, and have you noticed the sudden onslaught of David Finch variants in the solits?
– What sudden onslaught? He’s doing the covers to the Second Coming books because he’s doing the prelude issue and did all the covers for the story’s bookend, Messiah CompleX. That’s it.

I read comics from both as well as Image and Dark Horse. My issue is the putting down of one company over another. Marvel owns most of the market but that doesn’t mean that DC produces an inferior product. Both companies make questionable moves. Tom B making some of the Twitter comments that he does reeks of juvenile behavior sometimes and some of Joe Q’s reactions to things I tend to question. BUT Didio has made alot of decisions that I scratch my head at. One is not necessarily worse than the other. I know Joe Q wants there to be that kind of “sports team mentality” to the competition but some fans take it to extremes and rob themselves of some very good reading opportunities.

And DC isn’t a fucking underdog, they’re a corporation wholly owned by TIME WARNER. They are SWIMMING IN FUNDING AND MONEY.

Damn David, I wanted to go down that hilariously stupid list. You beat me to it.

@David Uzumeri – Well, I’ll admit you’ve got me on nearly all of those points, so well researched (and thanks for clarifying) – but my general observation is that Marvel ‘as a whole’ have had the DC digs coming thick and fast lately (ever since DC’s sales figures started picking up) so this is just how it looks to me…Which is why Tom B’s comments come across as something more than they might actually be.

But one thing – Marvel can’t hide behind the ol’ procedure of ripping covers off unsold comics, because A: Blackest Night is still going on so those are still saleable, and B: At the end of the day Marvel gained NOTHING from that promotion other than the controversy of having their distinguished competition’s comics destroyed.

Oh, and @Byan can fuck off

The thing was, Marvel straight-up said retailers didn’t HAVE to rip the covers off. And on top of that, they also encouraged retailers to sell the stripped copies in bargain bins anyway, or – and this was Brevoort’s suggestion – donate them to the troops. There WERE a lot of unsold copies that people didn’t want because they only wanted the rings, and Marvel gave those retailers what looks like it’s gonna be a really rare variant as a trade-off for them. Blackest Night’s totally still going on, but that doesn’t mean that people are jumping on to back issues of REBELS, which is a book I’m fond of but doesn’t seem to be doing very well. It’s a total fratboy tactic, exemplified by the Ali G knockoff Deadpool variant they’re offering in trade, but I think it’s honestly sort of a funny one and, while definitely a shot across the bow, largely harmless. I think a lot of people complaining about the move would be lauding it if DC was offering an Ambush Bug variant cover of Blackest Night in exchange for over-ordered, undersold Dark Reign tie-ins. It’s a sports-team mentality that the companies certainly foster, but I wish more people would see it for the game it is and stop taking away personal insult from it.

Well, yeah. You have a resonable mentality and probably sleep better at night. But comic fans DO take personal insult from things like this; there’s surely a bit of that semi-autistic, sheldon-meets-comic-book-guy, SB-Prime ‘fanboy’ in all of us. If DC pulled the same stunt, offering an Ambush Bug variant of Blackest Night#7 for unsold copies of Captain Britain and MI13 or Mighty Avengers, which were my fav books during Dark Reign…I’d be fricking furious. I’m sorry but I can’t apologise for loving my comics that way.

Oh, and there was nothing too ridiculous about my Cap specualtion either. Hitch left F4 something like 2 issues before his run with Millar was done with. Couldn’t it have waited? And nearly a year later Cap 602 carries on exactly where the Pre-Reborn issues left off, with no Steve. You can see where I got that idea from.

I will take Tom B being a little bitch as a compliment to DC. Marvel is upset at being dominated lately and not the super kings of the comics universe,so they are worried and come out with all this sour grapes stuff.I like it that Marvel is worried and upset and act like dicks,maybe they will start to care about the fans…oh wait Marvel zombies will buy anything they put out my bad,they don’t have to put out desent stuff….sorry about that i forgot.So just keep on kicking that Marvel ass DC your doing great!

David’s right about not taking personal insult from it. If you’ve enjoyed Blackest Night and wanted the rings, it doesn’t matter that Tom B called them “crackerjack” items. Enjoy what you read and don’t get caught up in this competition by the companies.

BlueSpider, the reason that happened was because Brubaker had already pushed it off for, like, eighteen issues longer than he planned. At some point, Steve had to come back. I do totally agree that Two Americas could have been published before or after, it doesn’t matter, but Brubaker basically waited an extra year and a half to pull the trigger on that gun. And they needed Steve back not for Cap, but for Siege and the Heroic Age, which have been HUGELY affected by Cap’s return, especially since all signs point to Steve taking Norman’s job.

Epic thread. Well done, David.

David Uzumeri: You are the only one speaking wisdom in this thread. Good on ya.

Civil War might have pushed 400,000 copies, but X-Force sold 5 million. I suppose that makes every comic published in the last 10-15 years a flop.

Also there sure are a lot of people getting pretty butthurt over an offhand Twitter comment.

The condescension and derision that some of you level on people who aren’t really married to either side, because you assume they are close-minded sycophants is hilarious.

So, for those thinking Brevoort is the worst person in the world for this observation, is there any way to disagree with you, without you acting like marvel put us up to it? I’m just wondering if it’s allowable in your world view to like both companies, but also like the competition between the two? Is there any way to not kiss the ass of DC / make up magical causation without research / completely ignore sales figures and come out of this without being labeled as a “Marvel Zombie”?

thanks in advance.

god damn, that dave guy sure loves his run-on sentences.

It has nothing to do with underdog/ top dog status.

Generally a better level of decorum is expected of executives than bloggers, and certainly people living in the comment sections.

Marvel is upset at being dominated lately

There is no empirical support for this statement.

http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales.html

No other comics imprint dominates either Marvel or DC. Marvel has the larger share of the direct market, and Bookscan data shared by Brian Hibbs indicates that DC does much better than Marvel in bookstores.

Rich,
People seem to think that not having the #1 top selling comic for a few months in a row is “being dominated.”
It must be, like, soooo totally embarrassing not having the #1 spot for a few months. How can Marvel show its face at the high school prom NOW!

“Congrats to Dan, Jim, and Geoff, but their promotions are pretty much meaningless.”

That’s how it reads to me. I don’t think anyone from DC got all pissy when Brevoort got his promotion.

So comparing the promotion to his own was calling it meaningless? How far up your own ass does your head need to be to see that?

DAVID UZUMERI: DEFENDER OF THE MARVEL UNIVERSE!

It’s illegal to sell comics that have had the covers stripped off. Suggesting that someone should commit a crime is also a crime.

Joe H — are you actually Joe Q? If so, not a very good disguise.

;)

The dude should spend less time on Twitter and more time actually editing the books he is supposed to be editing: like say Captain America #602. As monthly editor on that book, that one was all his fault. Way to go, guy.

Alan, you are completely, 100% full of shit regarding the legality.

Retailers aren’t “returning” the books to DC – they are following standard return procedure, but they are sending them directly to Marvel, not Diamond. If they send them back to Diamond, THE ENTIRE COST IS REIMBURSED, BARRING SHIPPING. It is therefore illegal, contractually, for retailers to “double-dip” since part of the DIAMOND RETURN AGREEMENT is to destroy copies once yous trip the covers.

When returning them to Marvel, it’s a different story, since THEY AREN’T GETTING THEIR MONEY BACK. It’s completely legal for a store to deface their own product and then sell off the remains, because these books were NEVER REPORTED AS DESTROYED TO DIAMOND. Marvel never asked for them to be destroyed, so the stores are FULLY within their contractual rights.

But please, keep going on about shit you know nothing about.

Also, nobody called Brevoort’s promotion meaningless over at DC because Brevoort CALLED HIS OWN PROMOTION EFFECTIVELY MEANINGLESS.

I agree with everything everyone says.

Except this part: “But comic fans DO take personal insult from things like this; there’s surely a bit of that semi-autistic, sheldon-meets-comic-book-guy, SB-Prime ‘fanboy’ in all of us.” That part is sad and pathetic, I’m afraid.

“And Rich, comparing Siege’s sales numbers to Civil War is complete bullshit and you know it. It’s a far worse economy than it was in 2006, and people don’t have as much disposable income. The ceiling’s moved down from 300k to about 100k, and Siege is still at the ceiling, selling about as much as Green Lantern and Blackest Night.”

Really let’s take a look at the sales numbers of other #1 issues with lots of hype and buzz shall we…

Secret Invasion #1-254,449
Blackest Night #1-205,500
Captain America Reborn #1-199,900
Batman & Robin #1-190,300
Final Crisis #1-166,641
Dark Avengers #1-136,500

Siege #1-108,484

Looks like the numbers don’t lie anyway that you spin it Siege is a freaking FLOP, what makes it worse aside from the pitifull first month numbers is that Marvel has more fans than DC and their big events usually sell about 30% more copies. This is a debacle Siege #1 should have sold more than 200k copies considering all the hype and push it’s gotten from Marvel even if they get a huge order or re-order say 40k it will still under perform as compared to the other events Marvel has put out that’s the definition of a FLOP imo.

EJ, God bless you for disagreeing with me and actually bringing facts in. That’s a convincing argument.

I’d argue that Siege is an ending rather than a beginning, and that the REAL test will come when the Heroic Age hits, and we see Avengers #1, Secret Avengers #1, etc. hit. But when you place it up against those figures, some of which are very recent, it DOES seem to be underperforming.

I would have more respect for Marvel if they used the unsold copies of Dark Reign one-shots instead of their competitors books. It’s just disrespectful to the creators on those books, some of whom have also worked at Marvel. I can tell you one thing; if Joe Q. wants me to pick a side, then I’ll pick DC.

Joe Q. doesn’t want you to pick a side, because he doesn’t have the mentality of a five year old. It’s a business decision that does not affect you at all. Are you a retailer? No? Then WHY DO YOU CARE?

David Uzumeri, are you a retailer?

And thanks ever so much for being polite. Your mama taught you well.

alan: u mad?

Dave Thompson —

Angry-mad…nope.

Crazy-mad…maybe a bit.

Don’t sell yourself short, Alan!

Man, Marvel is REALLY defensive these days. It’s starting to get rather tiring, this constant focus on DC and the eternal “you’re not as successful as we are” garbage. Do they really think that the fans care about this idiocy? I used to respect Brevoort, but of late, he’s come off like a whiny little brat. Keep this crap up, along with Quesada’s eternal B.S. and Bendis’ over-written dialogue, and I may drop more Marvel titles.

Cut it out. Focus on developing good comics, not ripping DC.

The sackings haven’t started at Marvel. They will. Oh, the current clowns in charge of the circus will shuffle around first, etc. but at the end of the decline and fall of the Lee-Kirby Empire, which is pretty freaking soon, the Six Foot Rat will eliminate the non-corporates , strip the character franchise money making stuff out and leave the comics to fold and fade. They are useless, run at a loss, and are an inefficient way to market test or research and develop. And market testing and R&D is all Warner and Disney see their comics as. The hardcore comics buyers are the real patsies, for caring what these morbidly obese nitwits think about ANYTHING, let alone the franchise shells they shill for.

Indies forever.

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