Robot 6

Quotes of the day | Tom Brevoort vs. the Titans franchise

from Justice League: The Rise of Arsenal #3

from Justice League: The Rise of Arsenal #3

“On sale today: HAWKEYE & MOCKINGBIRD #1. Guaranteed to have 100% less heroin use and impotence than the average comic starring an archer.” —Marvel Executive Editor Tom Brevoort, implicitly comparing H&M #1 to DC’s much-maligned Justice League: The Rise of Arsenal, on his Twitter account last week.

“On sale tomorrow: YOUNG ALLIES #1 by Sean McKeever and David Baldeon. It’s like what you wanted Sean’s TEEN TITANS run to be!” —Brevoort, contrasting McKeever’s new teen-team title with his creative-differences-marred previous teen-team title, on Twitter this week.

(Lest you think he’s saving all his DC disapproval for Titans-related books, he’s also unhappy with the length of Batman #700, but I wanted to stick with the theme)

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44 Comments

See? Now he’s baiting people on purpose, although I agree 100% with his opinions this time around.

…If only Marvel wasn’t guilty of the same B.S. from time-to-time, ya know? Every major company has “creative differences” that hold-back ideas or force change, DC’s just really, really blatantly guilty of it lately. Just hope this one doesn’t come back to bite you, Mr. Brevoort, because we ALL suffer if it should.

Dick Grayson’s a Titan, so it would still kinda fit the theme… (Only not as incendiary.)

The only thing I disagree with is his comment about the Finch cover. Then again I’m not a big fan of Finch.

” Oh yeah, well…is Green Arrow still a ninja? Oh wait. ”
“Did Batman #700 charge extra for reprints of the only the first parts of arcs which have trades coming out soon?”

If you’re trying to get someone to read something, don’t bad mouth something else to do it. I wasn’t a huge fan of either of those things, but if I were, it might actually dissuade mr from picking these up. I’m pretty sure Jim McCann wouldn’t have said this about JT Krul, and Sean McKeever wouldn’t make fun of …Sean McKeever.
I guess this newfound good will of the Heroic Age only extends to the Marvel characters.

Over at the Weekly Crisis, we spotlighted that first quote…

http://www.weeklycrisis.com/2010/06/hawkeye-mockingbird-1-less-heroin-use.html

And we got a bunch of hate comments from die hard DC fans. Totally worth it!

I dunno, I’m not with Brevoort on this one. I expected more content, but I was honestly beyond pleased with what there was. Grants was a more economical anniversary issue. His story was a celebration of Batman capsulated in one main story; I appreciated this format much more than the norm of celebration by having a main story and a bunch of back-up strips of varying quality meant to celebrate different aspects of the character in question. Felt like Grant did all the usual in one real story.

Page-count wise, no, it doesn’t stack up; content-wise, however, I personally think it’s top of the heap.

This one being Batman #700. Which I would have added to my post if you could edit contents. Sometimes I hate that about blogs.

Sean T. Collins

June 10, 2010 at 12:37 pm

Matt R.: Good point!

Tommy: Jim actually retweeted it: http://twitter.com/JimMcCann/status/15379670833
…and then asked if the quote was going on the cover of the collection: http://twitter.com/JimMcCann/status/15379718041
…so i guess he WOULD have said this.

Matt D.: Agree or disagree, I find Tom’s smacktalk funny–in terms of both what he says and the fact that he says it. Worth it indeed!

I hate both McKeever’s TItan’s AND the Arsenal mini, but this is dumb. Why does all this smacktalk keep coming primarily from Marvel?

Also, I think the point of ripping off the main character’s arm is so Arsenal is no longer an archer.

But they gave him a cybernetic arm… he can still arch. Is that a verb? “Arch?” He can still use a bow and arrow.

Still, I’d be willing to bet he won’t be picking up a bow any time soon.

And why would he want to when there are plenty of dead cats around?

or powercords?

Sean T. Collins

June 10, 2010 at 1:27 pm

Akwasi: “Why does all this smacktalk keep coming primarily from Marvel?” Believe me, no one wants someone at DC to do this too more than I do.

Only the first quote is actually funny.

Gail Simone pokes fun at Marvel all the time on twitter. She actually replied to Tom’s first tweet, which lead me to his account in the first place.

Steven R. Stahl

June 10, 2010 at 2:23 pm

Brevoort would be in a much better position to needle DC about its bad comics, if the comics Marvel were putting out weren’t just as bad.

Has Brevoort actually read HAWKEYE & MOCKINGBIRD #1? The premise doesn’t work, the plot doesn’t work, and the characters could be from a direct-to-DVD action movie, scripted by someone who wanted to do a superhero movie but didn’t have any money for special effects. McCann’s soap opera training might have led him to believe that as long as a story has good lead characters, it doesn’t need a plot.

In terms of storytelling, SIEGE was probably as bad as ARSENAL #3 — I haven’t read the latter — and more important in Marvel’s scheme. If done as coursework, both SIEGE and ARSENAL #3 would receive failing grades, but for different reasons, and if one tracks the problems with the premises for events back to SECRET INVASION and beyond — Perhaps the reason Marvel promoted “The Heroic Age” so heavily in advance of SIEGE #4 being released was that they knew just how badly it failed at resolving anything, and wanted to lower expectations to the vanishing point. They succeeded at that, but not without help.

SRS

And in YOUNG ALLIES #1 we have the new team fighting a new team of bad guys called the BASTARDS OF EVIL. Pot meet kettle.

Oh come on, what sort of prude are you – the name alone “The Bastards of Evil” is hilarious. And get this, thats what they are! Bastards! Children without Fathers!

As for Rise of Arsenal and Teen Titans, I wouldn’t read them if i worked in a comic store and could read them for free. Which I do.

And this is the face of Marvel man the people over at Disney must be proud to have such a self serving jackass representing their comic book company.

Truly I don’t know what is funnier the fact that Tom has continually been exposed after running his mouth remember his gem about Siege crushing Blackest Night or the fact that he thinks he actually believes the crap that comes out of his mouth.

For all of DC’s problems there are two things they have over Marvel, one is people who actually run their company with some class. The other is the fact that they don’t gouge their fans because someone in their company found out their Zombies will pay $4 or more for any crappy comic book they put out.

Oh come on, what sort of prude are you – the name alone “The Bastards of Evil” is hilarious. And get this, thats what they are! Bastards! Children without Fathers!

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And what kind of immature person are you to think that the name “Bastards of Evil” is “hilarious” or is perfectly suitable for characters that would have to drop the word “Bastard” from their name if those characters are ever a part of a YOUNG ALLIES toy line or a YOUNG ALLIES animated TV series (both of whivch, would most likely be aimed at kids). It’s a stupid and immature name that would most likely have to be changed in order to be marketed towards a wide all ages audience. The word “bastard”, regardless of it’s proper meaning, is still considered to be a cuss word in America, which is why you never hear the word used in any children TV series.

Calling a supervillain team the “Bastards of Evil” smacks of creative bankruptcy and desperation on the part of a fan turned pro who is hellbent on showing fans how “KEWL” and “CLEVER” he is. I bet he (or some other current or upcoming fan turned pro) next name for a super villain team will be the “Sons of Bitches”, who will either all be the sons of women who have “bitchy” attitudes or the sons of are actual evolved female humanoid dogs created by the High Evolutionary.

Young Allies was exactly what I expected (and WANTED) out of a book written by Sean McKeever featuring a bunch of teenagers kicking each other in the face.

I can’t say I read any of the Titan books, but if Sean McKeever of all people can’t make your teen super-hero book any good, then your teen super-hero book is probably broken from either a conceptualization or a editorial standpoint.

cactusjac2000

June 10, 2010 at 5:57 pm

Say bye-bye to your Green Lantern/Iron Man crossover, fanboys.

And you can thank good ol’ Uncle Tom.

@ cactusjac2000: To be honest, I’m not sure too many folks actually believed that was going to happen. Yeah, Levitz is out, but not everyone’s really okay with the kind of remarks Marvel makes at their competition. Marvel’s been taking shots at DC for years now – since Joe Q came in, it seems – and have only gotten worse. DC reacted to the first volley by not wanting to work with Marvel anymore and Marvel staff then acted similar to a high school bully who keeps tossing the insults out after he realizes his remarks bother you, if only to get a rise out of you. It comes off rather childish to me, honestly.

Like Marvel books and their talent, I just don’t care how they handle themselves when it comes to the competition; it reminds me a lot of the type of behavior during the Sega/Nintendo system wars in the 90′s, when both companies were taking cheap shots at one another in everything from press coverage to advertisements.

I hope DC just responds to this by making the Titans and Green Arrow books much better than the past year. I think that’s the most positive reaction a company like DC Comics can do against these cheap shots. I still think that JT Krul is a promising writer and this should only make him strive to do better.

Sean T. Collins

June 10, 2010 at 9:04 pm

So far, the most hilarious thing in this thread is the notion that the use of the word “bastards” is comparable to showing a superhero failing to perform sexually. But it’s early yet!

So far, the most hilarious thing in this thread is the notion that the use of the word “bastards” is comparable to showing a superhero failing to perform sexually. But it’s early yet!

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You’re right that is silly. After all, the word “bastard”, just like a superhero failing to perform sexually, is shown all of the time in TV shows and movies aimed squarely at kids/all ages. Oh wait, it’s not.

Steven R. Stahl

June 10, 2010 at 10:36 pm

So far, the most hilarious thing in this thread is the notion that the use of the word “bastards” is comparable to showing a superhero failing to perform sexually.

That depends on your sense of humor and on your sense of what Brevoort’s responsibilities at Marvel are. Needling DC on Twitter? An intern would do that for nothing.

Read Brevoort’s interview re AVENGERS in AVENGERS: SPOTLIGHT. In the space of several pages, he manages to avoid saying practically anything about the quality of the writing. He justified including Spider-Man and Wolverine in stories because they are “icons,” in spite of Bendis not having them do anything ,significant.

If your attitude toward superhero comics is that they’re produced for the esthetically retarded, who read them because they love the characters and prose stories are too complex for them to understand, then it hardly matters what Brevoort does. He might as well be editing submissions to Penthouse Letters. If his job involves quality control, he’s been failing at that for the last several years.

SRS

More like JUSTICE LEAGUE: THE LACK-OF-RISE OF ARSENAL…

“You’re right that is silly. After all, the word “bastard”, just like a superhero failing to perform sexually, is shown all of the time in TV shows and movies aimed squarely at kids/all ages. Oh wait, it’s not.”

What is with your insistence on this book being for kids? http://marvel.com/catalog/?id=15556

THE HEROIC AGE IS HERE! The patriotic girl without a world in need of a home. The insecure newbie striving to be a better super hero. The illegal immigrant with a tortured past and a dream. The disillusioned Midwesterner desperate for direction. The veteran team player given a second lease on life. Five heroes against tyranny in all its forms. Five students pushing to make the grade. Five friends together on the road to adulthood. They are NOMAD, ARAÑA, TORO, GRAVITY and FIRESTAR–the YOUNG ALLIES! But even their combined might may not be enough to take on the team of teen terrors known as the BASTARDS OF EVIL! Rated T …$3.99

Says it right there: Rated T. Look at the cover. This is not a Marvel Adventures title.

What is with your insistence on this book being for kids? http://marvel.com/catalog/?id=15556

THE HEROIC AGE IS HERE! The patriotic girl without a world in need of a home. The insecure newbie striving to be a better super hero. The illegal immigrant with a tortured past and a dream. The disillusioned Midwesterner desperate for direction. The veteran team player given a second lease on life. Five heroes against tyranny in all its forms. Five students pushing to make the grade. Five friends together on the road to adulthood. They are NOMAD, ARAÑA, TORO, GRAVITY and FIRESTAR–the YOUNG ALLIES! But even their combined might may not be enough to take on the team of teen terrors known as the BASTARDS OF EVIL! Rated T …$3.99

Says it right there: Rated T. Look at the cover. This is not a Marvel Adventures title.

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1. I’m quite aware that YOUNG ALLIES is a T+ rated book. Just like I’m quite aware that JUSTICE LEAGUE: THE RISE OF ARSENAL is a non CCA approved book. It still doesn’t dismiss the fact that both books contain material that would be considered offensive to some people and inappropriate for young kids. Which was my whole point of saying that Brevoort was a hypocrite to call DC out for putting out crap like JL:TROA, while citing YA as being more tasteful (which except for the Bastards of Evil, it is).

2. I don’t want YA (or any other MU or DCU superhero book) to be only for kids or only for teens or only for adults. I want YA (and the other MU and DCU superhero books) to be written and drawn in a layered manner that handles mature subject matter in a tasteful and subtle manner without talking down to the readers, but is still able to appeals to readers of ALL AGES. Just like the type of books Marvel used to put out before Quesada became EIC.

It’s so hilarious when the DC Didiots get their panties in a bunch over what Tom B says! I love it! More crying and whining please!

“In terms of storytelling, SIEGE was probably as bad as ARSENAL #3 — I haven’t read the latter — and more important in Marvel’s scheme”

DC Comics: so bad, even its defenders don’t read ‘em.

Are people really OFFENDED by calling a team of bad guys “the Bastards of Evil”? Break out the fainting couch–I’ve got the vapors!

Hey, Blade X -

Not everything must be tasteful and subtle, or appeal to all ages. Long before Quesada and Didio’s time, DC had their major teenager superhero team with a member that was secretly the underage lover of a middle-aged villain.

And to follow up on what Rene is saying, the are writing for targeted demographics. Not all comics in the 70s, 80s, and 90s were not meant for kids.

Brevoort does this to get more of a kick out of the marvel haters then DC comics itself, Its just friendly competition. And lets face it…the guy has a point, the whole Titians franchise is horrible since Johns left (and that wasn’t even great when he was writing it) and what they have done to Red Arrow/Arsenal was not needed at all.

Hey, Blade X -

Not everything must be tasteful and subtle, or appeal to all ages. Long before Quesada and Didio’s time, DC had their major teenager superhero team with a member that was secretly the underage lover of a middle-aged villain.

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Hey Rene

I’m quite aware of the Terra/Deathstroke relationship. I should point out to you that the sex between Terra and Deathstroke was only SUBTLY IMPLIED and NOT shown in those CCA approved issues of TEEN TITANS. Those TEEN TITANS issues were written in aq LAYERED manner so that they could appeal to a wide ALL AGES audience. It wasn’t until the non Code approved and more “mature” Baxter paper format that the TEEN TITANS stopped being aimed at an all ages audience and started being aimed at a narrower older teen and adult audience, which eventually led to a drop in sales and the books eventual cancellation.

And to follow up on what Rene is saying, the are writing for targeted demographics. Not all comics in the 70s, 80s, and 90s were not meant for kids.

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And how’s that been working out for them?

I thought it was funny that the other day, Tom mentioned DC’s “obsession with mutilation as entertainment” when we saw The Sentry rip Ares in half (complete with spine and guys on display) in Siege.

The House of Ideas must not be a glass house.

You do have a point there, Blade.

Though I’d say the relationship was not that subtle. For instance, Beast Boy directly asked Slade later if Terra had been his lover. I know that is a long way from actually showing them in bed together, but you do have a piece of dialogue that kids can get curious about.

I agree that comics sometimes go unnecessarily overboard, but using a mild swear word for a supervillain team’s name don’t strike me as the sort of thing that would shock a kid nowadays (but I can see how parents may object to it).

Bastards of Evil shouldn’t have been used as a name because what if an action figure line or animated series got made out of them?

Do you know who tends to buy super-hero action figures these days? Do you know what age group many of them are marketed to?

And do you know what kind of language flies on TV these days, including animated programs aimed at a teen audience?

Ridiculous. I might just have to go out and buy Young Allies to see if it, indeed, is the kind of story I expected to get from McKeever on Teen Titans but just wasted my money on because of idiotic editorial interference.

Bastards of Evil shouldn’t have been used as a name because what if an action figure line or animated series got made out of them?

Do you know who tends to buy super-hero action figures these days? Do you know what age group many of them are marketed to?

And do you know what kind of language flies on TV these days, including animated programs aimed at a teen audience?

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1. In the DM, superhero action figures are marketed to the same narrow and rapidly shrinking current older teen and adult readers. Outside of the DM, superhero action figures (and other toys) are marketed at kids.

2. And do you know what kind of language that is NOT ALLOWED in animated programs aimed at kids? Again, when was the last time you heard the word “bastard” used in a animated series aimed at kids?

Hey, Blade X – I work in a comic shop, and trust me, Kids don’t buy comics. they prefer idiot violent videogames which are five billion times more offensive than the word “Bastard” in a comic book. And our store does pretty well without them, to be honest.

And if Sean McKeever, or anyone else is interested, Young Allies sold out in our store, so fair play, you’re doing something right for us!

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