Robot 6

Frank Miller’s Holy Terror to be released ‘next year, certainly’

Frank Miller on the set of "300"

Frank Miller on the set of "300"

More than three months after confirming that his long-discussed Holy Terror graphic novel no longer involves Batman fighting Al Qaeda, Frank Miller has revealed who’s taking the Dark Knight’s place.

“The character is called The Fixer and he’s very much an adventurer who’s been essentially searching for a mission,” he tells Hero Complex. “He’s been trained as special ops and when his city is attacked all of a sudden all the pieces fall into place and all this training comes into play. He’s been out there fighting crime without really having his heart in it — he does it to keep in shape. He’s very different than Batman in that he’s not a tortured soul. He’s a much more well-adjusted creature even though he happens to shoot 100 people in the course of the story.”

Miller says that Holy Terror, which was announced in 2006 (as a Batman project from DC Comics), will be released “next year, certainly,” although he hasn’t signed a publisher. He also addresses the leeriness of DC Comics executives, and his reasons for replacing the Caped Crusader with the new character.

“I pushed Batman as far as he can go and after a while he stops being Batman,” he says. “My guy carries a couple of guns and is up against an existential threat. He’s not just up against a goofy villain. Ignoring an enemy that’s committed to our annihilation is kind of silly. It just seems that chasing the Riddler around seems silly compared to what’s going on out there. I’ve taken Batman as far as he can go.”

News From Our Partners

Comments

67 Comments

Ugh.

The most shocking piece about this post to me is that Sean T. Collins didn’t write it. Guy’s slipping.

And some people honestly thought this weirdo was a better Batman writer than Denny O’Neil…? Please.

“And some people honestly thought this weirdo was a better Batman writer than Denny O’Neil…? Please.”

Dunno about “better,” but Year One is the equal of anything Denny did during his time on the character. I love them both.

Someone explain to me what is “offensive” about this comic. I am as liberal as they come, but a fictional story about a badass adventurer taking on Al Qaeda, one of the most evil organizations that has ever existed, sounds like it could be very entertaining. It ain’t reality, folks, it’s fantasy wish fulfillment. How is this any different than a story about a lone guy taking down Hitler?

And Joe Shmoe, all respect to Denny O’Neil (his and Neal Adams’s interpretation of Batman is actually my favorite), but Batman: Year One is better than anything Denny O’Neil has ever written.

I’m a little disappointed that he changed it from Batman. I was really interested to see what he did with Batman vs. Terrorists. Also I still enjoy All Star Batman and Robin. I think it’s fun and outrageous.

Batman is not built to take on this kind of murderous scum. Click my name to see who is.

i dont think this will be offensive, just not very well written. miller has been pretty god awful since all star batman and whatever other junk he’s called writing

Pardon me, but this sounds no less silly than Batman chasing the riddler around town.

If you want reality, do a book about a soldier in Afghanistan.

Oh god…this guy still thinks he can write this piece of shit?? It was a terrible idea to begin with and it’s a terrible idea now. Doesn’t matter the main character he uses. Year One was only good due to DC’s leash on him was pretty tight around that neck of his. Beyond that…this guy shouldn’t get all this praise for writing SOULLESS characters. Ronin was good because the main character’s a robot (sorry to spoil), Robocop vs. Terminator was good (aside from Walt Simonson taking art off his ugly hands) because it about fucking machines. Martha Washington was decent as was Hard Boiled. Sin City books 1 and 2 were alright and that’s the full extent of Miller’s “amazing” career.

He stopped writing Batman with ASBAR.

I agree with the wish fulfilment and all that but he needs someone to tell him when he’s being a wanker.

I think the response by Muslims & Leftists will be nearly as entertaining as the book itself.

I think someone pushed Frank Miller as far as he could go and then he stopped being Frank Miller and became the dude who is responsible for All-Star Batman and the Spirit movie, both of which are far sillier than anything involving the Riddler.

I guess the only problem I have is that Osama bin Laden is a real-life monster and killer – turning him into a bad guy for a comic book character to beat up might have worked in the 40s, but seems a little…odd, now.

I mean, are we going to get an issue of Wolverine where he goes after a Jeffrey Dahmer pastiche? Or Superman taking on Pakistan? Maybe Captain America roughing up the President of Iran.

“Take THAT, you Kenny Loggins-lookalike/Holocaust denying jerkwagon!” *PUNCH*

Under a decent writer, it could have weight. Under Miller, who hit rock bottom about 10 years ago? Meh.

Yeesh, Frank Miller’s sure losing it. His ideas used to be somewhat innovative (albeit inspired by Japanese manga and American crime novels etc.). His early work on Daredevil and Dark Knight remain quite good and interesting, but I had no idea his almost fanatical Captain America from Daredevil was almost an avatar of Miller’s own persona. Sin City, interesting and sometimes really good. His 300 is way overrated imo and both the comic and the movie are at best tedious. Martha Washington, again back to interesting and it’s surprising that it hasn’t gotten film treatment. As for Batman taking on Al Qaeda, interesting MAYBE (huge maybe), but in Miller’s hands likely to devolve into more or less a mindless violent story (his All-Star Batman was gawd awful and one can almost anticipate more of the same). This isn’t a great idea to start with as AQ aren’t quite as interesting as the mafia (which they are akin to as they are not an ‘existential’ threat to us like the Soviets) and could likely come off like a bad Dr. Doom story. I could almost imagine AQ as the Hand from DD moreso than the Xerxes, but again almost cartoony villains are simply not that interesting. This is not only not a good a very good idea, but hard to pull off and by Miller I’m thinkin’ I’ll pass.

Everyone commenting in this thread, including me, is a complete idiot.

Especially the guys listing virtually everything that Miller has written as being ‘OK’ but all the other stuff (I guess DKR2 and ASBatman) is complete garbage.

Granted, the Spirit was a complete and utter waste of time.

If it’s offensive at all, it’s offensive to the soldiers there whose efforts are arguably trivialized by this kind of work. If they knew about it at all, which probably not. I’m more going with “stupid” than “offensive,” pretty much for the same reason.

cactusjac2000

July 29, 2010 at 4:51 pm

Yes, let us all take stock in the wise words of “Face Farts”.

Frank Miller lost it somewhere around the “Yellow Bastard” Sin City arc. It was the same characters run through the same paces with little or no distinction between their characters. And when you watch Sin City as a film, it becomes entirely apparent that Frank Miller is riffing off the same material.

Worse yet, there’s no editor that will tell him his shit stinks. And there’s no editor that’s telling him he’s overwritten a scene or dialogue or silent exposition. Seriously All-Star Batman is a horrible mess because he doesn’t have a good editor.

Read Daredevil: Fall From Grace and you’ll see the difference between them.

It’s sad, but now he’s in the John Byrne category of believing everything he does is awesome. Funny how they don’t talk Sin City 2 like they did a year ago (post-The Spirit debacle).

I doubt it has anything to do with Frank thinking he’s “taken Batman as far as he can go”. It’s probably more or less DC seeing the scripts for the book and yanking their character away from it (the potential to be scrutinized is too great). As if fighting a terrorist is so far out of Batman’s range that it couldn’t be done. Has he NOT heard of Ra’s al Ghul? Then replacing Batman with another comic book character named the Fixer? Good writers possess the ability to craft a story that allows your audience to believe that Batman (or any character you choose) can in fact thwart an adversary that’s “out there”. So his reasoning sounds like ‘I’m cool’ cop-out.

What a self important jackass. Besides, the Fixer is a Marvel character. Disney/marvel will jump on him with both feet.

“I think someone pushed Frank Miller as far as he could go and then he stopped being Frank Miller and became the dude who is responsible for All-Star Batman and the Spirit movie, both of which are far sillier than anything involving the Riddler.”

This post is full of win!

I was about to post about how thoroughly unappealing it is for people who don’t really understand politics to insist on doing political work but then a thought occurred to me: If this story is about a big bruiser who has no real purpose and is sitting around bored, just waiting on an ass to kick, any ass’ll do, and then rejoices when his city is attacked just so he’ll have a real opponent to face, then maybe Miller’s saying more about American interventionist policies than he realizes. Good point, dude.

DetectiveDupin

July 29, 2010 at 7:29 pm

@ Bosch Fawstin- Reality check- Not ALL Muslims are evil or terrorists. Most are decent human beings. Judging an entire group of people based on the actions of a radical few is stupid. It’s akin to me judging Republicans, Catholics, and whites solely on the actions of Timothy McVeigh.

DetectiveDupin

July 29, 2010 at 7:31 pm

Btw, this whole story sounds like something Miller should have kept to himself. I think at this point, when it comes to Batman creators, he ranks below Morrison when it comes to what they’ve done for the character.

Miller’s best days are long behind him, he should go away before he embarasses himself any further. If he had retired after “300″ his reputation would be gold and we would remember the triumphs of “Batman: Year One” , “Daredevil”, “Sin City” etc. Instead of shit like “All Star Batman”, “The Spirit movie” , “Dark Knight Strikes Again” etc. He used to be the life of the party, now he’s just a guy throwing up all over the washroom floor.

Book begins with a lot of internal monologue.
The Fixer gets help from a stripper/call girl from the rainy, mean streets – I mean caves.
Then he ambushes the all his guards and before plunging the knife in Osama he says – “I’m the GODDAMN FIXER”
End.

DetectiveDupin, you think ALL Muslims are evil terrorists?

I don’t get the special hatred for Miller’s comic in these comments. Way too many double standards here.

Why can’t Miller do this when all of you don’t have a problem with other works from the past 10 years featuring people fighting Islamic terrorists? 24, Call of Duty, the Hurt Locker, etc? I bet none of you complained when Family Guy and South Park did basically the same thing and had their characters carve Bin Laden up.

“And Joe Shmoe, all respect to Denny O’Neil (his and Neal Adams’s interpretation of Batman is actually my favorite), but Batman: Year One is better than anything Denny O’Neil has ever written.”

Gotta disagree. Man Who Falls is superior IMO.

My favorite part in this masterpiece is when “The Fixer” stumbles upon the revelation that Al Qaeda was created, funded, and trained by the CIA and Mossad under the auspices of the Trilateral Commission, the Carter Administration, and Brzezinski in the late 70′s in an attempt to bankrupt the Soviet Union during the Cold War.

Oh wait — Miller left that part out?

Well I’ll be darned…

“DetectiveDupin, you think ALL Muslims are evil terrorists?”

That’s… the exact opposite of what he said.

If you notice that, Apodaca, then I assume you can also notice the point I was making.

What a fun article that immediately causes a bunch of people’s brains to explode. I think Frank Miller continues to be a great creator just as he always has been. While I still haven’t watched the Spirit movie (as I’ve really just never got around to it, I’m pretty sure I even own it) I have found his comic work continually entertaining, including his much maligned neo-Silver Age take on Batman in ASBAR (or Dark Knight Boy Wonder now).

Here’s a few points:
redvector – you show me the Marvel book that stars the Fixer in a title role and I will show you Marvel’s chance in hell of putting up a fight to stop this story. Even if they’ve got the name as a registered trademark (which I highly doubt), Frank could get away using it in this book as long as it wasn’t on the cover. Especially since the character sounds like he may very well be a professional “Fixer”.

True Liberty – yes, the Carter administration F’d up as did Charlie Wilson in the eighties. The short term gains of the time period over the last hundred years of history often led to more problems in the long run. But I think that forty year old training has very little to do with why Al Qaeda are a bunch of psychopaths out to blow up western civilization.

Apodaca – you missed Mr. Fawstin’s point completely. Dupin clearly wanted to claim that Fawstin is ignorant of the fact that not all Muslims are terrorists and Fawstin turned the silly attack right back on him.

Thanks for bringing it, NJA.

Well, NJA, lack of schools, hospitals, and basic social infrastructure, (which we were supposed to provide in exchange for fighting the russians), will create ‘a bunch of psychopaths’. Just look at the south. So it is related.

Bosch CLEARLY implied that Muslims would be mad about an anti-terrorism book, because they’re all terrorists.

You and Bosch are just a couple of monkeys throwing feces and calling it candy. At least you have each other.

There’s always going to be ‘some dude’ who thinks ALL Muslims are terrorists, no matter the reality of the matter.

I don’t care if it’s not Batman who will chase the bad ass in the city. Really. I am enough of these so supes without guts to go after real life problems.

If Miller wants to write and draw a search&kill comic book, it’s is right. Starting with a character wihout any bad history and, one day, he must face the horrible, that’s reality.

In reading the posts on this articles, it seems that the US readers have not grown up. They are still at the age of 10. Hey guys!!! The world is real. The dangers are reals. The supes are kiddy comic books. The supes won’t came and help the gentilly american people to combat the evily scum.

And let the Muslim where they are. This book is not against them. It’s againt one extremist branch: the islamics who claims to be the real Muslims. We have Muslims, Jews and Christians in our countries. They live happily without fighting each over. And they also are affraid as we are of the silly mind of the islamics.

What is our main and only target now is: the extremism of these men and women that do horrible acts in the name of their God.

They forgot one thing: the Sacred Book of Muslim, the Coran, is a book of love, of peace, of opening mind, of respect. Not at all a book of violence, of oppression, of muder…

So, let Miller write his book with his hero-of-a-day, a person like you and me, and we will see what this book will be when published.

To some who have not really understand what I have written on the Muslims, I am a Christian with a very lot of Muslims anf Jews friends.

I fear DC got cold feet to use the franchise for what could be alienating Muslims.
This is the same as if Kirby would have been told not to draw Hitler’s face punched as it could alienate Christians in the 40s.

This would be cowardice.

It is ridiculous to smear Miller who is one of the greatest comic artist of all time (Ronin, Daredevil, TDKR, ….) as a weirdo just because he is one of the few of the artist community who takes a stand and speaks the unspeakable obvious.

I thought that we Europeans had a problem with sickening self-abuse and political correctness, but obviously the US is not far behind us. Sad.

Kind “Kummi”,
what you just wrote is so wrong on so many levels.

“I fear DC got cold feet to use the franchise for what could be alienating Muslims”.

If by alienating Muslims you mean discriminating them, by portraying their population as a mindless crazy bunch — with the kind of black and white characterization Miller uses, one could hardly expect any better (see the Persians in 300) — those are truly not “cold feet”. It’s just a rational — and very wise — choice.

“This is the same as if Kirby would have been told not to draw Hitler’s face punched as it could alienate Christians in the 40s”.
WHAT? You’re saying Hitler was a poster boy for Christians? Wow, that’s miller-esque.

“This would be cowardice”.
Or just being not-crazy?

“It is ridiculous to smear Miller who is one of the greatest comic artist of all time (Ronin, Daredevil, TDKR, ….) as a weirdo just because he is one of the few of the artist community who takes a stand and speaks the unspeakable obvious.”

The only unspeakable obvious (although MANY pointed that out), here, is that Mr Miller’s better off at being “silly” than tackling serious subjects. I like his DK and Y1, and found them MUCH MORE serious than this preposterous anti-islamic propaganda. His “art”, nowadays, simply won’t “survive” debating politics in the real world. Except in those far right corners whose readership he likes to court.

“I thought that we Europeans had a problem with sickening self-abuse and political correctness, but obviously the US is not far behind us. Sad”.
WE Europeans, I’m sorry to say, don’t feel like you do.

Regards.

Zodiac Firebroom

July 30, 2010 at 4:53 am

It’s a shame (if unsurprising) the original Batman story didn’t get off the ground. It would have been fun reading Miller’s over-sincere take on that classic CIA fantasy “Al Qaeda”.

The superhero comic book world is about the only place where nonsense concepts like Al Qaeda make sense, and imagine Miller doing Osama Bin Laden as a Ra As Ghul type villian!

I guess we’ll have to make do with this more pedestrian sounding drama from our favorite right wing paranoid nut.

Sad….I was so looking forward to this….but with no Batman it just doesn’t hold up to me. Having him take on a real life criminal group like this would have been really cool. I don’t know…did any of you read Batman: the Ultimate Evil by Andrew Vachss. Really good book having Batman go up against the world of Child Trafficking. There was some pretty intense stuff in that book. Was hoping this would have been up there on something close to that level.

Sorry, but the old imitation tactic isn’t really “turning the attack back on him”. It’s a juvenile attempt at argument.

And it’s not the exact opposite of what you said at all. So, you didn’t make any point. You just did the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and saying “Nyeah nyeah nyeah!”

Maybe you should explain what you actually meant, so you won’t have to worry about people misunderstanding it. That would be easier, wouldn’t it?

If this get’s published it will be largely ignored. And sounds like Miller is ripping off the news story a couple months ago of the nut job who took it on himself to go after Osama Bin Laden with a 45 and a Samurai sword. If that’s the case it shows that the man is creatively bankrupt.

It’s funny how snake-god-worshippers and chaos magicians go down a little easier then stiff-necked right wingers (at the very worst, a faux-facists) in our western, “politically correct” cultures.

I personally love Frank Miller’s work. Not many people can do overwrought and make it work like he does, and I’ve been looking forward to Holy Terror since I first heard about the project. Sounds like a hoot and a half, and a lot of fun to boot.

Richard C. Meyer

July 30, 2010 at 7:34 am


some dude
July 30, 2010 at 1:03 am

Well, NJA, lack of schools, hospitals, and basic social infrastructure, (which we were supposed to provide in exchange for fighting the russians), will create ‘a bunch of psychopaths’. Just look at the south. So it is related. ”

I patrolled southern Afghanistan and every little village had one abandoned building- it was usually the school or hospital that the coalition built for them after 9/11. The Taliban made people afraid to go to these places and most villages these schools and clinics were simply used as toilets by the children of the village.

Richard C. Meyer

July 30, 2010 at 7:37 am

Grendel said

“If by alienating Muslims you mean discriminating them, by portraying their population as a mindless crazy bunch — with the kind of black and white characterization Miller uses, one could hardly expect any better (see the Persians in 300) — those are truly not “cold feet”. It’s just a rational — and very wise — choice.”

The movie and book are set almost a thousand years before Islam was created.

Richard C. Meyer

July 30, 2010 at 7:38 am

I find it telling and rather sad how many dhimmis exist in the comics world. Basically they are bothered that ANY superhero would go after`Al Qaeda?!?!?

Kind Grendel,

are you saying Al Qaeda is the poster boy for Muslims then?

My point was that I dont see why we should not openly (and I include the means of “Millerist propaganda”) denounce Islamic terrorists? What do they have to do with normal Muslims? If nothing> Muslims cannot be offended. If yes> Whats the problem?

You argue like a European dhimmi who lives in a 10% Muslim populated European city, hoping that your plea for “understanding” will one day be taken as a plea for merci.

You are wrong and one day you will see how much.

Best joke from the original draft of Batman v. The Terrorists-

Batman (holding a terrorist over the ledge of a building): “Talk.”

Terrorist (fire in his eyes, pulls a knife from under his shirt, brandishes it at Batman): “Jihad!”

Batman (dropping the terrorist to his death, smirks): “Gesundheit.”

Wow. This has devolved into namecalling and ridiculous assumptions.

I don’t give a crap about Miller’s politics. I just think he has an extremely childish and simplistic worldview. It’s like he read Mickey Spillane and nothing else, and that informs his work. I enjoy a Dirty Harry movie as much as the next male, but I know it’s not reality. I have enough common sense to understand that the world is far too complex to be solved with a .357 and a tough guy tagline.

No one is “bothered” by a supehero going after terrorists. They just wish a better writer was doing the story. Put say, a Greg Rucka or Grant Morrison on it, and it’d be pretty awesome. This, not so much.

It’ll probably sell well with his loyal fans, who didn’t abandon him after the train wreck of DK2, so that’s all that matters, right?

That said, I enjoyed the HELL out of his Martha Washington series. I wish he’d do more stuff like that. It has the same sort of cartoonish nature, but there’s something about it that works much better as satire.

I’m not against people criticizing Muslims (or any other authoritarian religious groups – there is plenty of them in this sad world). I just wish it wasn’t a weirdo nutso like Frank Miller doing the criticizing.

I would prefer if a liberal humanist wrote a criticism of Muslim extremists, and not someone who seems to have tendencies that are as authoritarian and fascist as any Sharia supporter.

Wow, every time Miller is mentioned on this site, here come the crybabies. DKSA and ASBARTBW are kick ass. if you don’t like those kinds of adventures, go read your stale ass Denny Oneil back issues and STFU about the great Frank Miller “losing” it. care for some Lemonade?

just because somebody criticizes totalitarism , authoritarian theocracies and appeasement to someone who has announced that they hate individualism and wish to destroy the West (i.e. Israel, USA and Europe) doesnt make somebody “right” or “right-wing” or …”scum”. I think it is a completely liberal concept to oppose totalitarism and fundamentalism.

(Even) Ann Coulter has a point when she says that once in history there is a chance for the common sense to oppose fundamentalism and suddenly the Left pulls out for all the wrong reasons.

I partially agree with you, Kummi.

There is a portion of the Left that would throw Iranian women under the bus, because they’re too afraid to appear racist or imperialist if they criticize any Muslim culture in any way. If the Iranians were blonde, blue-eyed Christians, I doubt the Left would show any qualms in attacking them for stoning women to death for adultery.

On the other hand, the social conservatives in the Right, Ann Coulter very much included, show a lot of hypocrisy. Somehow I doubt these guys are too worried about women rights or gay rights or religious freedom, when they’re the same people that attack those fundamental freedoms in the West. The dudes most eager to attack Muslin theocracies are the ones that dream of hardcore Christian communities wherein women only have sex after marriage and are subservient to their husbands.

i can assure you i am not part of that hypocrisy. I just want that the achievements of the “West”, enlightment, a moral compass, women rights, rights for minorities including sexual minorities, are not sacrificed on the altar of political correctness and/or fear.

I agree completely.

The problem with the Liberals (speaking as one of them) is that many of them seem to have sacrificed their pride of Western culture in the altar of multiculturalism and Political Correctness. Conveniently ignoring that the freedoms of Western culture are precisely what allow for multiculturalism to thrive in the first place.

Certain basic rights are non-negotiable. Any state or society or religious group that don’t recognize or protect them should be made to change and should never be above criticism.

TO: Richard C. Meyer
“The movie and book are set almost a thousand years before Islam was created”.
Thanks for the history lesson. Not needed, but I appreciate that anyway. So you mean to say that the proudly fascist and riefenstahl-lian nazi looking Spartans in the comic aren’t meant to symbolyze the Americans fighting against the bad bad oh-so-bad (albeit pre-Muslim!) people of the East? And EVEN if it’s got nothing to do with Islam, I’d like to point out that ANYONE who portrays a WHOLE population as evil and corrupt (not even a shade of gray accounted for) is a “bit” too narrowminded for me to be considered anything else than extremist … not to mention plain naive (aye, the Ancient Greeks depicted their enemies as beastly looking centaurs, but Miller cannot be excused as a B.C. writer… or is he?). Try and read “Arrowsmith”, since we’re talking comics. Busiek is THAT much better at understanding kulturkampf.

TO: kummi
“are you saying Al Qaeda is the poster boy for Muslims then?”
I’m sorry, but I think that’s a bizzarre(o) interpretation of my post.

“My point was that I dont see why we should not openly (and I include the means of “Millerist propaganda”) denounce Islamic terrorists?”
Denouncing terrorism is one thing. Carpet-bombing indiscriminately a WHOLE culture (which is much more complex than people ever seem to keep in mind) is something else.

“What do they have to do with normal Muslims? If nothing> Muslims cannot be offended. If yes> Whats the problem?”
And between those “if nothing” and “if yes”, I see, nothing exists. Miller’s black-and-white morals seem to actually seep in the real world.

“You argue like a European dhimmi (…)”
Nope, got that wrong. I act like a European citizen who lives in the oldest democracy in the world and has thousands of history of violence behind him. But not JUST that. You being European yourself, you SHOULD know that your kind of crusade leads but to the grave.

“(…) who lives in a 10% Muslim populated European city, hoping that your plea for “understanding” will one day be taken as a plea for merci”.
Sorry again, but mine is not a plea. No need for it, since we do not live in the Middle Ages. And I might add that fundamentalists can most assuredly be found on BOTH sides of that conflict (you’ve already bought the tickets for).

“You are wrong and one day you will see how much”.
You know, prophets like you are a thing of the past in my culture. But that’s ok. I respect yours.

Before anyone points that out: when I wrote: “I act like a European citizen who lives in the oldest democracy” I meant the “oldest land”, as in “Old World”, but I was thinking of ancient Greece and so I slipped (by all means, call it freudian) and used the word democracy instead. God forbid I should unwillingly fire up a debate on who’s got the oldest democracy… Far be it from me.

Has this turned really into adiscussion whethjer it might be politically incorrect to have a comicbook about somebody fighting Al Quaeda?

That would be ridiculous.

@ Grendel: By bringing up the he c-word which is an evil-meaning distorting Jihadist propagandist expression that is supposed to imply that the West wants to christenize the Muslim world by force, you bought a ticket that says that you would rather defend the rights of someone like Hamas bombing Israel than defend the rights of someone like Israel not to be bombed by Hamas.

i really cant stop wondering what you mean there is a grey between the black and the white?

People who train their kids to be suicide bombers or send there family and friends to kill innocent people using public transport, are just black in my book. There is no grey. Not even a shade of lightness. This is pure evil.

I dont even want to go into the question whether this might be connected to a religion that as opposed to any other monotheistic religion is unable and unwilling to grow and adapt to the social progress of history.

As long as there is no common consensus that blowing up innocents in the middle of their cities or in their homes for no other reason than hatred I am seriously in fear where dhimmis like you will bring Western society.

sorry..I know I become pain:

“…and has thousands of history of violence behind him.”

Many Europeans have learned nothing. Many still live under the conviction that Neville Chamberlain’s Appeasment policy would have scared off the Nazis. In the end it was up ton brave people like de Gaulle, Churchill and of course the Americans who fought the Nazis and liberated Europe.

American blood is always spilt. And Europeans never seem to learn.

TO: Kummi

“i really cant stop wondering what you mean there is a grey between the black and the white? People who train their kids to be suicide bombers or send there family and friends to kill innocent people using public transport, are just black in my book. There is no grey. Not even a shade of lightness. This is pure evil”.

What I mean is that wherever and whenever there’s despair, injustice, discrimination and poverty, whatever the continent, whatever the age, whatever the religion, there is always gonna be a group of people who prey upon the poor, who exploit their desperation for their own damned agenda. Like Hamas, since you mentioned it. The horror Hamas, Hezbollah or any other such organisation perpetrates is one thing. Blaming the whole terrain that gave them birth is another thing entirely. Now I don’t blame the American citizens inhabiting those states that gave birth to the KKK. Do you? I don’t blame the Germans for the Nazi. Do you? I don’t blame the Irish for the terrorist history of the IRA, do you? True, they’ve received help from a part of their society, while another part turned a blind eye. But other guys resisted, and fought against them. Like Goethe said, tho’, woe to the land that needs heroes (or something like that).

“I dont even want to go into the question whether this might be connected to a religion that as opposed to any other monotheistic religion is unable and unwilling to grow and adapt to the social progress of history”.
And what I say is that Islam is too vast and multi-faceted a reality for you (and me) to summarize in a few words. Simple, black and white categories may help you wrap your mind around vast problems, but do not necessarily help solving them.

“As long as there is no common consensus that blowing up innocents in the middle of their cities or in their homes for no other reason than hatred I am seriously in fear where dhimmis like you will bring Western society”
You keep implying that I think blowing up innocents is acceptable. But that’s a prejudice you’re holding against me. You keep repeating that I’m a dhimmi. As if it should offend or provoke or diminish me. It’s simply untrue. Just like as if you were saying that I’m a gagé. Or a gaijin. Or whatever else. We’re NOT under siege, you know? And… Listen, mate: the sooner you drop your “clash of the culture” vocabulary, the better you’ll feel. And the better we’ll talk. And I’m not even a “goddamn” pacifist, y’know?

“sorry..I know I become pain”
No pain at all. I actually like being able to rationally confront someone with ideas like yours, so different from mine.

“Many Europeans have learned nothing. Many still live under the conviction that Neville Chamberlain’s Appeasment policy would have scared off the Nazis. In the end it was up ton brave people like de Gaulle, Churchill and of course the Americans who fought the Nazis and liberated Europe”.
You see, that’s why I’m not a pacifist: I agree with what you said. Although you’re forgetting the few good Germans who were on the right side of the war (white rose anyone?). The few good Italians who fought back against the nazi-fascist. But also the few Americans who did not want to lift a finger before it became impossible not to do so. And the few Americans who gave a great many nazi war criminals a “second chance”. The few brits who sympathized with Hitler. The few French who “dated” the nazi. &c&c And the various other exceptions that make history so much more complicated to summarize than what you just did.

“American blood is always spilt. And Europeans never seem to learn”.
You know, I loathe the spilling of blood. Of any colour and nationality. And you’re European, but I’m not quite sure of the lesson YOU learned. Spilling blood only leads to more blood being spilled.

Back in the 70s they claimed Kirby had lost it when he went to DC. The books didn’t sell well. He was disrespected when it came to the redrawing of his Superman heads. In light of the Neal Adams trend of realism Kirby’s art was old fashioned and getting worse everyday. Fast forward to the present and people go gaga over the fourth world stuff and it receives no end of praise.

Today’s criticism of Miller strikes me a deja vu all over gain. Someday we will look back on Miller’s completed career and we will reevaluate the works that people are now so dismissive of and realize that they were actually pretty good.

The reason why Miller seems to have become a controversial character is that he is a part of the creative community which per self-definition leans to political (and economic) principles to only speak its mind if it complies with the left leaning mainstream. Miller is a mind and political person of his own, a through and through concept of individualism and freedom.

I picked up the dark knight returns in 1986. back then it struck me as a very political comic book, a piece of comic literature I only knew from European comic books. Miller struck me as very Un-American in the way he introduced artistic and strory telling concepts in a main stream Batman comic (How wrong I was). Back then I only had a very rough idea of politics, but thought that Miller was a liberal left leaning author, telling a story about a deeply anti-authoritarian hero with strong elements of Anti-Reaganism. The way he deconstructed the Superman character as the all american fool who would follow any command dor the sake of the US’ geopolitical interest (Corto Maltese anyone?).

Miller is a great artist and a great story teller. Nobody (Bill Willingham and the utter humanism of the good sides of Garth Ennis maybe; maybe Bendis) weighs in so much personal moral conviction into mainstream comics work (and sometimes fails so much to do so).

Leave a Comment

 


Browse the Robot 6 Archives