Robot 6

Kickstart my art | Help Tony Harris create Roundeye: For Love

Roundeye: For Love

Heidi over at The Beat points us to a recent Kickstarter project started by Tony Harris. The artist of Starman, Ex Machina and War Heroes is asking for $60,000 to create Roundeye: For Love, a 96-page graphic novel.

Compared to most comic book projects that appear on Kickstarter, it’s a pretty hefty sum, but Harris explains where the money will go.

“So it may initially seems to be too high of a goal to reach , but consider this: Kickstarter takes a percentage of all monies recieved,” he posted on the Kickstarter page. “They also charge for all the credit card processing fees. The money goal set here reflects those things, my page rate for penciling, inking and coloring 96 pages of art, which is a Herculean task to be sure. Then there are administration fees for publishing, and promotional items to be generated and paid for. this project will likely be taken to one of the main publishers in comics such as Dark Horse, Image, IDW, etc…. so they will handle printing, and distribution, and a certain amount of advertising costs ( which can be MASSIVE). These are all big reasons why I decided to post ROUNDEYE: AFor Love here on Kickstarter. To reach as large an audience as possible. And the salary/page rate mentioned will likely be over 1-2 years, which doesn’t amount to a whole lot. But this is the ONLY way to produce an extremely high quality product that will be competitive in the Comics market. I sincerely hope this makes everything I am trying to achieve here totally transparent.”

Harris is offering several incentives for people who donate, from a mention in the book for $25 to a limited edition with a “personal drawing” for $400. You can check out some art from the project here.

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26 Comments

from copies of the book and a mention in it for $25

According to the info on the Kickstarter page, your $25 only gets a mention in the book, not the actual book itself.

You’re right, I totally misread that … thanks. It has been updated.

Huh, I guess the only way to get a copy of the book through the Kickstarter campaign is to donate $400. That’s too bad; it’s highly unlikely I’d donate that much, but I might do $25 for a copy of the book.

So this guy wants to indulge his artistic bent while still getting “my page rate,” and then expects the finished work (all 96 pages of it) to be taken up by “one of the main publishers in comics.” Righht…

Incidentally, are Dark Horse, Image and IDW vanity publishers? Sounds like it, if you’ve got to raise $60,000 to deal with them.

How much do I have to donate to get War Heroes finished?

What a greedy jerk!

So, he wants his page rate, and the get it published by a company who would then recompensate him in some expense by at least handling the biggest chunks of the pie? At least guarantee it will be printed offset in america, and then I might toss in a few bucks.

At least guarantee it will be printed offset in the USA, and then I might consider giving him a few shekles.

Sorry about repeating myself. Just a little steamed. I’m sure Dark Horse would pay him just due to his name alone. This is not what kickstarter is about.

Greedy? Really? This is to cover two years of work, and the guy’s trying to cover the loss of his time on highly compensated work.

And it’s not like he’s holding a gun to anyone’s head.

The guy wants money to work on a book so he could get DH or IDW to publish it. Then they would probably recompensate his time and effort and then use their own money to print and promote it, like they always have. If he was going the self-publishing route like most Kickstarters usually do, then I could understand the amount. To me, it seems like the guy will end up making twice his usual amount in the long run without even selling a book.

Earth-2, what he should be doing instead of trying to cover the loss of his time on compensated work is actually FINISH his work.

We’re still sitting waiting for the rest of War Heroes as Adam Kirby said, he’s got his project with B. Clay Moore for DC they’ve said they’re doing (as a series of minis), his various cover work, etc.

I mean I’d like to read this book also just from the sound of it but you know what? He needs to stop talking bout the “next project he wants to do” when he hasn’t either finished/started the LAST PROJECT he was doing!

Finish War Heroes and all other outstanding work, then when you’re done, go for this. Not ask for money for a project you’re saying will take you two years so you need to get paid now while you don’t give any idea about finishing your previous work yet you’ll blow it all off for your next pure vanity project.

If you send me $40,000, by Western Union, I will create Browneye: For the Love of Anal, at the rate of one page of week (not including 8 weeks of vacation). That’s 96 pages, in two years, for $20,000 less than Tony Harris. You like drawings over photographs? I have a copy of Photoshop. Let’s do this thing. This is a bargain I’m offering. I want to be the Hydrox to Tony Harris’s Oreo cookies.

$40,000 might sound like a lot of money, but keep in mind my page rate as an artist is usually a little north of $20,000 a page. I only draw on adorable babies.

For a donation of $200, I will come to your house and hold a boom box over my head, and we will listen to Peter Gabriel music together. For a donation of $20, I will come to your house and hold a boom box over my head, and we will listen to Peter Gabriel music together. For a donation of $2, I will come to your house, and hold a boom box over my head, and we will listen to Peter Gabriel music together. I guess what I’m trying to say is, I’m coming to your house– get ready, America!

Evan, I bought War Heroes as it came out, and I want to see it finish, too, but c’mon. Mark Millar got really sick while they were working on the project, which threw everything out of whack, and according to a recent interview on Word Balloon, they plan on returning to it. I can barely keep up with my reading pile as it is, so I don’t think waiting a while longer for War Heroes’ conclusion will kill me. It’s not like it’s tied into some line-wide event or something. The B. Clay Moore project has been announced, but it’s not solicited yet, so relax.

And Tony Harris gets no credit for finishing up Ex Machina? Other than War Heroes, can you name a single project he started and didn’t finish?

Again, no one’s requiring you to donate to Roundeye, and while $60,000 might seem like a ton of money, if it’s two years of work, that’s $30,000 a year — hardly an extravagant payout. Harris wants to do this project, he looked at his bills and figured out how much he would need to get it done while still paying his expenses, and he came up with this amount. I have no idea if he’ll get $60,000 in pledges, but I don’t fault the guy for trying to make his dream project happen. Either you think it’s worth donating or it’s not, but can we stop pretending like Tony Harris is the second coming of Dr. Doom?

Its not that he doesn’t have other commitments (he does). Its just that so many other creators made something in their spare time while doing their day jobs or they even pitched it so they could get paid so their vanity project can be their day job. Plus its much harder for them because they’re not Tony Harris. He comes off incredibly smug and with a sense of entitlement to do whatever he wants because he’s so popular.

If this was David Lapham trying to make more Stray Bullets, I’d donate a hundred bucks.

Me too! Even $200!

I guess it’s all in the eye of the beholder. I thought Harris came off as a relatively nice guy trying to make his dream project happen.

Will he get to $60,000? I’m guessing that will be tough in this economy, but I don’t fault him for trying.

Well hold on. If he wants a guaranteed full page rate of $500-600 for 96 pages paid up front in full then why is he charging $20 for a 96 page book? If I’m not mistaken, publishing advances ultimately are against royalties on the back end. He seems to want both the upfront and back end profits all paid for by fans while the actual cost of publishing is handled by the publisher all for a supposed labor of love. This isn’t transparent at all. He isn’t actually naming his page rate, number of labor hours, or breaking down the expense projections or even naming the publisher. Why should fans have to pay his salary and still pay full retail on the final product? He’s not asking for expenses being covered. He’s asking for pure profit up front and then on the back. How is that not greedy? I don’t mean that as a rhetorical question. This seems like a rather dubious proposal. Am I missing something?

“Why should fans have to pay his salary and still pay full retail on the final product?”

They don’t HAVE to do anything. It’s up to the fans whether or not they want to support Harris’ project. If you’re a big enough fan, maybe it’d be worth it for you to donate some cash to see your favorite cartoonist go to town on his dream project. If you’re not, don’t.

I honestly don’t get why folks are so offended by this — it’s not like he’s forcing you to donate. This isn’t a tax.

There were a few pages of this years ago in the Desperado Primer that came out in 2004. I remember Desperado saying that they were going to publish it in two hardcover albums, it got delayed and all the time and Tony Harris was working away on it in between jobs. Desperado have merged with IDW since, so why won’t they publish it?

Of course we have no obligation to donate a thing. Its just that the guy is naming what he has to do besides making it (i.e. production, promotion, etc.), and then he says that it will get picked up by a publisher, two of which are known to pay their creators and promote their titles well, even on creator owned stuff. Tony Harris is marketable. He did covers for IDW’s Angel, as well as covers for DH’s Conan. Its obvious they have an interest and keenly know his value, so of course they will publish this. He just wants cake for dinner and an even bigger slice for dessert.

hey guys. Lemme clarify a few things i have tried to, more than once on Kickstarter. I guess i have failed.

To call me smug, or greedy is just, I dunno kinda mean.
You DO NOT have to donate a single dime. BUT, I am asking you to, if you are a fan of mine, and you want this book, which has been hard to get placed, see the light of day.

WAR HEROES?? Kirkman and I are talking, It will finish. follow me on Twitter @TONYFINGHARRIS and you will get weekly updates on that.

Whistling Skull??? Painted all 6 covers. Just got first script approved, start drawing next week.

ROUNDEYE????

Heres the skinny? you asked for it? You got it. I was trying to be a gentleman and not spell everything out about my personal life, but if I am going to be blasted publicly for being selfish, to try and commiserate with like minded people, and as a public figure reach out to THOSE people, and ask them to help me make it happen and entertain them in the process, then i am gonna tell you, what is what.

I get paid $275 to pencil a page, I get paid $150 t ink a page, i get paid $125 to color a page. Thats $550 a page. Thats $52,800. I am foregoing the writing $$ altogether. I am paying out for lettering, which is usually $10 a page. Thats almost a Grand. So I take it to a publisher, finished. DONE. they DO NOT HAVE TO PAY OUT A SINGLE FUCKING DIME TO PRODUCE THE ART BECAUSE I ALREADY TOOK CARE OF THAT THROUGH FUNDRAISING ON KICKSTARTER( PLEASE GOD!!!) Hell yeah, they are gonna guy it. And publish it, with a big fucking smile on their face. NO I WILL NOT be paid all over again by said publisher. I will share in profits after the publisher makes back all their printing , and advertising, and administrative costs. Which by the way includes anywhere from a 40, to 60 % discount off cover price from Diamond Comic Distributors. Not to mention Tons of Advertising costs and unseen bullshit.

There isn’t really a whole lot of profit to be made. Serious, ask ANY comic book guy, or girl, and they will tell you they don’t do this for the money.
And, any other book you can think of, from X-Men, to Ex Machina to Y- the last man, to Superman, to Batman, and to whatever, they all cost the same to produce. And in most cases more. Because they have bigger names than me writing and drawing them, and their rates are a lot higher than mine. So I could go on, and I will if need be, but i hope that clears up a few things. you are not a fan. Dont donate, if you are? i will NEVER forget what you did. And I will shake your hand and sign your book an draw in it, and make you know that you made it happen. YOU.

TONY

The offensive thing is Mr Harris’ assumption that his payment for services is some kind of absolute. A page rate is what somebody is willing to pay you to do a page of work they they’ve commissioned. Since nobody has commissioned this graphic novel, the page rate for doing it is nil.

This year I completed a prose novel after two and a half years’ solid effort. I didn’t get journalistic rates per 1000 words.

Are you F*ing kidding me???

First, IMHO, this is a total abuse of Kickstarter. I mean, isn’t Kickstarter for startup projects for people who don’t already have a major career in comics? Maybe not. But, asking for 60,000 when you’ve already “made it” seems a bit stuck up. Can this guy with all his success not find him a publisher to pay him a page rate for a book? Maybe if no one wants to publish it no one wants to read it. Whoknows. But oh, it’s “Been hard to get placed” so “If” you’re a fan, you should pay for this unmarketable book.

Second, you all are totally right about waiting on finished work, Adam. Does anyone remember Angel or Spider-Man? Granted, those were FINISHED, but not thanks to the original artist. Also, I thought I remembered Mark Millar saying that the scripts to WAR HEROES were “long finished” or something like that so, sounds like it’s not the writer’s fault. Plus, Mark has had all kinds of other things coming out. Not like his illness has kept him from working.

Oh, and what is he bragging about his page rate? Telling us how much he makes is supposed to encourage us to give him more money?

Starman and some of the JSA stuff rocked. But I haven’t been in to the draw-over-google-images-approach for some time.

Finally, does this guy think SHOUTING out us will convince us to change our minds? Give me a break. How about learning a bit of humility and not shouting.

also, does anyone understand this paragraph? “Heres the skinny? you asked for it? You got it. I was trying to be a gentleman and not spell everything out about my personal life, but if I am going to be blasted publicly for being selfish, to try and commiserate with like minded people, and as a public figure reach out to THOSE people, and ask them to help me make it happen and entertain them in the process, then i am gonna tell you, what is what.”

Pt. II

By the way, what has Tony ever written that qualifies him as a good writer? I mean, I know he’s “co created” stuff, but in my book that doesn’t make an artist a writer. If a writer wanted to do this, wouldn’t we want to know something about how well he could tell a 96-page story?

Still doesn’t change the fact, Mr. Harris, that you’re asking to be paid now, upfront by fans, not all of which would receive a copy. You’ll still be making money once you sell it to a publisher, and they will sell it again back to the people that already paid for it. You also agree that they’ll buy it with a smile because, hey, you’re TONYFINGHARRIS. You don’t need to do this at all because they know what you are worth, and, apparently, so do you. That’s the reason this whole thing comes off smug, self-serving, and greedy.

There’s also the question of what happens if the book isn’t finished within the next two years. Back to Kickstarter to ask for more dough?

My god.

Really?

Jeezus, do you people read anything you type before you punch publish?
Seriously, re-read everything, and I mean EVERY word on the Kickstarter page. You gloss over almost ALL of it. Educate yerself before you blast people from the safety of your bedroom. I explain ALL of it. I wasnt being smug, or greedy, or forcing anyone to donate a dime. People accused me of being greedy, and asking where the money was going. So you were told. Not bragging, just being transparent. Half the shit you are bitching about was addressed on the page , either in the description of the project or in the updates. If you had read all of it, you would know that.

But hey! Guess what? Call me what you want. Look at the people who have pledged. Look at WHAT they have pledged. Speaks volumes. They know what I am about, and its not getting rich, or being greedy, or any of that horseshit.

Please do me a favor, and come see me at the next show I do and spew this crap to my face, like a REAL grownup. What? No? You cant do that? You are busy just then? You cant afford the trip? etc…………….

Right. Ask yourself one single question:

If I were face to face with Tony Harris, or anyone else I were calling names, or smearing publicly, would I have the balls to say the same things I spew on the Internet?

Also ask yourself this: HAve I read, and familiarized myself with all the info on the subject I am currently railing about in public forums? Do I know this guys motives inside and out? Do I truly understand the workings of the market? Do I have any fucking clue whatsoever?

TONYFUCKINGHARRIS


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