Robot 6

Pirates get the jump on Justice League #1

The message posted at comiXology

Why are we not surprised? The digital edition of Justice League #1 goes live today at 2 p.m. Eastern (11 a.m. Pacific), but illegal downloads of the issue are percolating merrily away all over the Internet. The Pirate Bay shows a copy being uploaded at 4:10 a.m. GMT — that’s 11:10 p.m. ET Tuesday, 50 minutes before the print edition officially went on sale — and some other file-sharing sites have even earlier times.

As of 6:30 this morning, The Pirate Bay file had 210 seeders (people who have downloaded the file and are offering it to others to upload) and 23 leechers (people who are just downloading).

DC Comics has two things to worry about here. The first is that the first comic of the publisher’s biggest event in decades was available illegally more than 14 hours before the legitimate digital release, which raises the question of why the company is holding the digital release till so late in the day. To protect comics shops? Well, that failed. There will always be people who use illegal downloads because they’re free, but what DC needs to worry about is people who would pay for a legitimate download but grabbed the torrent first because it was up when they woke up this morning, and they could read the comic over their coffee. If you’re going to do digital, dammit, do it right.

The other problem is the response to the comic itself in the comment thread at The Pirate Bay, which was pretty negative. Although maybe that’s just a pirate-site thing, with people treating it with contempt because they got it for free, Comic Book Resources reviewer Greg McElhatton was also pretty lukewarm toward the debut issue.

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100 Comments

I love local comic shops for the most part, but I’m irritated by the notion that digital comics need these artificial limitations in order to keep from hurting the Direct Market.

Seriously, are there really a significant number of people who base their print vs. digital decision based on a difference of a few hours? And considering most people need to work at some sort of a job in order to buy comics, how many people are at the store right when it opens anyway?

The flipside to this is that people were so anxious to get it, they got it as soon as they possibly could. That has to make DC feel at least a little good.

Of course, you’re right. They should be learning from this and fixing the problem. Doubt they will, though. They’ll just do an interview about how evil the pirates are and how they’re just helpless to stop it.

On the other hand, I don’t know much about file-sharing sites. Are those numbers (210 seeders/23 leechers) low or high? That seems kinda low to me. I mean, I can’t see DC being too worried about losing 200-something sales (that’s assuming that all of these people would’ve even bought it). I’d be interested in seeing how it performs this morning before the legal digital copy becomes available.

Just looked at Demonoid and there was a total of about 3,500 downloads complete for Justice League and thats before America even wakes up.

I wonder how many of them would have bought the digital copy at a realistic price point.

Of course a lot of these people will probably buy the issue anyhow or at least the trade.

Darren,
I “could” be one of the number you mentioned. It was very disappointing to check my DC ipad app this morning to find no change in regards to the new 52. I expected the “midnight” print releases Flashpoint & JLA to be there when i woke up. No Dice. Only then did i check the comixology app to find the “wait til 2pm” annoucement.
If DC wants to go “day & date”, they need to take it seriously. I buy as much print as i possibly can. Around 60-70 bucks a month from an online mailorder place (so my prices shake out to be a bit better than cover price). I did bump up my order for the “new 52″ – of which i have ordered both of today’s releases already. I just won’t get my print copy for a few weeks. But it was very disheartening to wake up this morning and not see those issues already available for digital sale. I was seriously contemplating buying JLA#1 digitally this morning to read it even though i already have purchased the print version. But when you don’t make it easy to get your product, your customers WILL go elsewhere.

@KentL:
200 is pretty decent for just a few hours, especially for a comic book. Plus, I think it’s like how the views on Youtube update at intervals… it’s not going to be up to the minute, accurate.

Few factual corrections

04:10GMT would only equate to 11:50pm Eastrn time, if you’re talking about the winter. just like Easterntime has ‘standard time’ and ‘daylight savings time’, the UK does too, but it goes from GReenwitch Mean Time (GMT) to British Summer Time) so in reality 4:10GMT = 00:10 Eastern Time

Of course, the other side is, ‘that’s not GMT’ on the site. It’s Swedish time I believe, which is another hour offset the other way, so in actuality it would be 22:50 eastern time.

Second, on bittorrent.
Seeders have the entire torrented data. Leechers do not. However, leechers are not ‘just downloading’, as you have put it, all of them are capable of uploading. The level of completion is the only difference.

Finally, Your opinion on the motivations of the comments are WAY off. When its good ,that’s reflected in the comments. If anything, more so. There’s no negative bias ‘because it’s free’.

But PLEASE, if you don’t know what you’re talking about, ask!

“Begging the question” is used incorrectly. The. phrase does not mean “raises the question” which is how you used it. Begging the question means assuming you are correct on a point for the sake of making an argument.

1985 Im growing tired of this knee jerk reaction to downloading. I work in digitial media and have been taught to look at the potential of situations like this. Such as being realistic about why people are downloading without just throwing out the ‘thief’ term.

Many people, myself included from time to time use these downloads in a similar way to flicking through the issue in the shop. In a way it is holding the comnpanies tot ak with regards to quality.

Ficling through or downloading a copy to skim through for me helps me decide if I am going to pick up a series as a monthly (then sell on ebay when the the trade comes out thus buying the issue twice), or wether I am going to just trade wait. In some cases where I ahve been disapointed not pick up at all.

Firstly let me point out as one of these ‘thieves’ I have no interest In reading comic books on my computer. It’s uncomfortable and I really don’t have the patience for using comic book readers.

Secondly many is a time I have flicked through a downloaded comic book that I normally would have had no intention of buying and found myself loving it that I go out and buy it either as both monthly and trade or at least just as trade. Other books that I decide not to buy are ones that I would not have picked up anyhow. I do not save the files or re-read them.

So if we’re being sensible about this I am an argument for illegal downloads as they have made me buy more product and in no way made me not purchase anything I would have purchased otherwise.

As for Justice League. It was an easy decision to wait for trade. DC need to offer more vsubstance to a $2.99 or $3.99 book if they want me to pick it up.

As for DC. They need to look at these so far 4,000 downloaders and think about how best to capitialise on this. If they want print to work they need to stop tipping the scales inf avour of print as this is what’s going to happen now.

They might also want to look at a realistic price point when the option to download for free is there and more widely advertised as of today than before.

Re: Downloading before “sale time”

It only takes one jerk on the internet to make a mess for everyone.

Pretty much all my love of comic books I owe to pirated comics.

Now I own walls and walls of collections and buy like 5 titles a week. I didn’t know JL was up that early, but if I had I would’ve definitely downloaded it…. And still bought it. So many people will probably be downloading and buying it, so what’s the big deal? Or maybe many people are going to torrent the individual issues, and buy the hardcover. Either way, torrents shave off the top of the most profitable titles, but often gain exposure for lesser titles. Issues that are hard to find are great in torrents as well. I read Alan Moore’s Miracleman in torrent (loved it) because I couldn’t really get the whole run anywhere else for less than $300.

Its hard to say if a midnight digital release would have made any significant difference in the illegal downloads or not, but it is certain that waiting until 2pm EST did not help. What a lame move. Stop pandering to comic shops. The good ones will be fine.

This is just a bump in the road for bringing in new readers. What about the people who have never read a comic book in their life but were casually reading the paper this morning, read an article about the “midnight madness” sales everywhere, read that there was a digital release and then whipped out their IPad to download the app only to see that IT WAS NOT AVAILABLE YET. This person won’t be back because it was a casual, spur of the moment thing.

I don’t know what sort of international restrictions are put on legal digital comics, so I could certainly be wrong. But if there is any region locking, wait time, etc. Many torrent downloads can reflect an unavailability of a product somewhere. Certainly not all of those downloads are abroad, but it is a piece of the puzzle.

Some people download them for review purposes, then throw them away. Or so I hear.

Not to mention, if 10,000 people download this (and don’t buy it in any form) and over 200,000 people buy it, thats only 5%, not technically a marginal loss. But that 5% could possibly be used to explain the recent 10% drop in sales.

I think there are other questions that need to be asked about digital copies also?

Why charge the same price for digital a print? There is no value in digital like there is in print. No resale value. A digital copy will not go up in price. In fact once you have bought it, it has zero value. It’s no wonder nobody is buying digital. The price needs to reflect this. They should be nothing more than 99c if they want to get illegal downloaders to actually pay for a digital copy. The companies have alreayd made their money on the print edition so this is a bunus way to make money and to get new readers to try out books and then maybe go buy the trade or monthly issues.

Also if you own the digital copy and you send it to a friend. Is that considered stealing also. You have paid for it. Is it any different than lending them a copy of your issue? How do you lend a digital comic? Is copying your digital copy any worse than making your friends a cd or in the old days a tape.

If you download an illegal copy then go buy the actual issue is that stealing? Does the digital copy really have any value at that point. Can’t you just scan and make your own digital copy anyhow? Is that illegal, I mean it’s your comic surely you should be able to do what you want with it .

What about if you download then eventually buy the trade. At that point doesn’t it legitimise the illegal copy as you basically have paid for a version and all images within for personal use.

If you can sell comics on ebay then shouldn’t you be able to resell your digital copy too if you have paid the same price for it? What makes reselling your actual copy any more legal than selling a legitimately purchased digital copy?

So many questions need to be asked and the companies are just applying the thought process that they do to print. It’s not the same and people need to start thinking differently and outside of the box if they want to maximise on the potential of downloaders both illegal and non legal.

Darren, it’s not at all the same as flipping through an issue at the store if you (1) don’t immediately delete it from your device after deciding you don’t like and/or (2) pay for it if you decide to keep it.

By your reasoning, flipping through an issue at the store and not putting it back on the shelf but taking it home for a while without paying for it is acceptable.

If there’s a pay function for a device that you are willfully and knowingly bypassing to get a product for free it IS stealing; paying for it after the fact doesn’t erase what you did (if you did, I don’t know you, so I don’t know that you did or did not).

When you flip through something at a store to take a look at it, if you don’t like it, you put it back, but you’ve broken no laws. If you took that same something OUT of the store to take a look at it, without paying first, then you’ve stolen.

It’s not a negative stigma; it’s factual, case based LAW.

So I’ve wondered for a while:

I get my comics through mail-order, but I only have it shipped once a month so I don’t get anything until pretty much a week into the next month.

Soooooooo…. for titles I’ve PURCHASED ALREADY, money paid like nearly two months in advance, is it bad that if I’m really excited for a book or just need to know what’s going on, I download it?

Thieves are “tired” of being called thieves. Please be considerate of thieves’ feelings before calling them thieves. You really do need to coddle thieves and make them feel better about stealing, so have a heart. Okay? Thanks.

I think a lot of these people that were on the fence and didn’t want to shell out 4 bucks (honestly, something less than the cost of a hamburger from Carl’s Jr!) downloaded to see how it was. Now the majority of these people probably weren’t going to buy it even if it was good (majority of pirates are selfish entitled pricks it’s true) but even if 20% of them got on board after reading it I consider that a win for DC. I agree with other posters that it’s a good way for people to pick up new titles so pirating does have it’s pros and cons. As for digital pricing being equal with physical, it’s ridiculous. It has no resale value, it’s not physical (no labor but there are charges for website management I guess). Someone paying a dollar or three dollars for a comic is a huge difference, esp when most buy four or five.

You’re missing an important piece of data here: When are pirated comic releases usually available? Are they normally coming in later than this? If so, there’s a new problem. If they always come out a day or more in advance, this is only noteworthy because it’s the New 52 thing, and not because, suddenly, pirates have access to digital comics — apps to read pirated comics predate the Comixology apps in the iOS app store by a good margin.

I also agree with Tyler. They do bring attention to lesser known comics and hold companies to task for the bigger ones in terms of quality.

Also wat happens when books are no longer available from the publisher. Is the argument then that we are taking money from the ebayers? Who is being stolen from anyhow? The publishers? the shops? the ebayers?

If a shop has sold out of an issue and an ebayer is selling an issue at more than cover price is it wrong to then download it so that you can jump on board for the next issue?

Do you have to wait to have exhausted every avenue to pick up a new copy before resorting to downloading. How do these rules work?

What if it’s an unavailable anywhere issue and downloading it will make current series make more sense this making you more invested. Still wrong?

I can say if they went cheaper than I pay for physical copies I’d probably just switch to digital, I’m really tired of owning inferior-quality ad-ridden books anyway when two months after most every storyline I can get a nice hardcover for the same price.

If digital lets me read the books monthly at a reasonable cost and pick up the hardcover/trades afterwards, that’d be ideal for me, sorry comic shops.

And until you reported on it, I had no idea it was available on Pirate Bay. You are contributing to the cause by reporting on it. I’ll be at the store to buy my copy this afternoon on my lunch break. I’ve heard mixed reviews but controversy is good…gets people talking and raises interest.

@Joe H:

Thanks for the info. If that’s the case, then I still think DC might be excited (at least internally) by these numbers. It’s proof that the buzz is real.

So my next question is what should the normal release time be for Comixology? Is it going to always be 2pm on Wednesday? I would guess it is. If so, what *should* it be? 10am? 11am? Most stores that I know open at 10am or after. With Diamond now shipping on Tuesday for Wednesday releases, what is the policy for stores that have the books on Tuesday? Can they actually start selling at midnight Wednesday morning since it is technically Wednesday? Obviously stores aren’t going to stay open that late on a regular basis, but what is to stop them from doing that? Anything?

I think DC should be less worried that it got pirated, and more that it got pirated so soon before release which means someone(s) in the delivery chain is responsible for the pirating. That can be DC internal, at the printers, at Diamond, or at the shops…

I’m sorry but The books are coming out digitally now, like people have been asking for. yet they still feel the need to steel from DC as a company because of whatever fracked off justification they have for this week? Too expensive? Bull shit. Not available until 2:00 pm? Bullshit. Sorry. I have no sympathy for thieves.

Charles J. Baserap Im looking at this more morally then law wise although digital law is still defining itself.

If I read soemthing I download I delete it straight away.

Maybe we should make reading in the shop illegal. I mean that is kind of stealing. What about library books? How does that work. What happens when librarys go digital?

There’s just so many questions that people keep avoiding. There may be a law in place but it isn’t close to being complete and certainly doesn’t fully respect all apscts of illegal downloading some of which is beneficial to companies. It also isn’t based in any realistic moral code. Like I say can you really condemn someone for downloading a book they buy 8 hrs later?

You can compare it to stealing and then going to pay for it. Really though that is the problem. Digital isn’t physical items. We need to stop applying the same rules. It’s something very very different. To do so is simplistic. Everythign you know is changing, you can;t keep applying the same old rules to it. They don’t work.

I am so tired of people throwing the term thief around. It makes you look stupid with all these points and arguments being made here. It’s mean as a slur and I don’t think that the people who are being honest on this board here have done anything morally wrong.

Im pretty sure that people throwing this term around have probably watched a song on youtube at some point. Or been given a mix tape or cd. Maybe watched a pirate copy of a film. That makes them all hypercrits.

There amy be greay legal areas for all these things but end of the day it comes down to the same thing.

Should we arrest someone for making their partner a mix tape. Do we throw angry slurs at them calling them theives. If you do you are mental.

Times are changing. People need to stop thinking like morons.

What’s the possibility the DC leaked this themselves?

A big part of the problem is that the retailers see digital comics as a threat and so they’re pressuring the publishers to put barriers up to minimize their losses to legitimate digital sales:

1) Print price for day and date. DC’s standard digital price is $1 less than print, but the retailers insisted on a month window of price parity.
2) Delaying digital release until all the stores in the country have had time to open.

My biggest problem with this is that it hurts legitimate digital comics sales far more than it hurts piracy. Pirates just scan the print books.

So once again we end up with the situation where pirates have a product (digital new releases) that’s not available legitimately. It’s hard to draw people away from piracy when there is no legitimate option. This just guarantees that every download in the period with the greatest buzz (immediate post-midnight sale) is illegitimate.

The truth of the matter is that while the retailers in the Direct Market work very hard, and love comics; they haven’t been able to generate the sales the industry needs to keep moving forward. The publishers need to go to day and date digital because the stores aren’t selling enough books to keep the industry going in the long term.

Don’t hobble your long term future to prop up the people who haven’t been able to keep you afloat.

Good retailers will find a way to survive and even prosper – others will not. I like the Direct Market, but if I had to choose between losing the Direct Market and losing comics, I’d choose losing the DM because without the comics industry there’s no point.

KentL:

Stores are not allowed to sell books until the “prevailing time” in their local communities on Wednesday AM — this is understood to be 10 AM, earliest. Selling at 12:01 AM is specifically considered breaking street date, UNLESS publishers have pre-announced that (like JL #1 today)

The 2PM EST time is 11 AM PST — which is when most west coast comics stores first open.

-B

I don’t think anyone is going to take being called “stupid” by a functionally illiterate thief seriously, Darren. E for effort, though.

And yes, taking something without permission from the owner is morally wrong, period. No amount of whining by a spoiled, self-entitled brat who thinks he should be able to take whatever he wants whenever he wants it will ever change that cold, hard fact. If you want to read comics, buy them. If you can’t afford them, go to the library (where you already paid to read the books via taxes) or find a cheaper hobby. If you don’t want to be refered to as a thief, don’t steal. Surely even you can comprehend that.

the 2pm delay is completely foolish. They missed the immediacy component of digital culture. When you hear about something, you grab your iPad, go to the app store or whatever and look for it. Its immediacy. You impulse buy it then..you don’t come back 14 hours later.

Anyone hearing buzz about the midnight release parties and lines (me) was VERY disappointed that it wasn’t for sale the same time as the print version. Second Class citizen-ing of digital is not going to help it succeed.

If their entire digital strategy is to coddle and be p-whipped by nickel and dime mom and pop stores then its already failed. Give the stuff a chance with equal footing. Let the consumers have a real choice. Let the independent shops take some accountability and be responsible for keeping themselves in business.

If a couple of digital sales will kill your shop, then you’re already screwed.

I don’t like buying digital comics because I don’t actually own them. If I stop paying for the internet, I no longer have access to my purchase. If my power goes out I can’t access the net on my laptop, nor access my comics. This idea may make it easier to pirate, but if I am buying a digital comic, shouldn’t I be able to save the images and print off a page or two if I wanted? I paid the same amount as I would for a hard copy, why not enable us to actually OWN the digital images too? Or, if I bought a digital version of a comic, how much trouble could I get in for downloading a pirated version just so I can have access to the book and it’s pages the way I want?

JL #1 was actually available via direct download sites like MediaFire at 6 p.m. Pacific time. It’s worse than you think.

Jon I’m not even going to waste my breath on you. There’s is much much more to all this than your simplistic view. But you take the moral high ground. I have no interest in your point of view as it doesn’t help anyone move forward.

Thanks for the info Brice

I wasn’t sure that if I bought a digital copy that it actually wasn’t loaded onto my computer and I was only just renting it. I’m definitely sticking with paper and ink version.

@Lemurion

I’m wondering how closely DC’s watching the sales of the print / digital bundle of JL #1 to see if that might be a way to go for all future issues… (Of course, I have no idea how much extra, if anything, an LCS makes on such deals.)

People shouldn’t make the assumption that a pirated copy equals a lost sale. DC themselves didn’t lose a dime out of this deal, they’ve sold every copy they printed. If you think of piracy as a way for consumers to test products they’re not familiar with that’s actually fair to them, then I really don’t find much to objection. Of course that goes with assuming they’re also doing their part and buying the stuff they like. I can’t give a word for word but Dan Didio seemed to have a good understanding of the effects of piracy. It probably brings more customers to the table than it takes away.

Christopher Walsh

August 31, 2011 at 7:38 am

Darren,

You ask legitimate and tough questions. But then you blow off any persons who have a view point that is fundamentally opposite but equally as valid as yours. This isn’t fair and you’re never going to find the answers to your questions unless you take these people’s views into account.

waiting for digital release is stupid. it diminishes buyers excitement to buy it day and date. add up that its available illegally for download first. bad move if you want to capitalize on day and date release. people who already read it would just wait a month or never buy it digitally then.

Good Lord. Piracy’s always going to be an issue, of course, but what — people can’t afford a $4 comic book?

I went on the DC App. last night after midnight and then again this morning and nothing. I was really disappointed. Now I get to work and read reviews online that don’t make the issue sound very good. So now there is a chance at 2pm I will not buy the issue when at 12:30am I would have bought it out of impulse and curiosity. :(

Unfortunately there are those out there that purely download freely and never pay a cent. What about those that download so they have a digital copy of the paper copy they purchase? I’ll purchase the comic, read it, and then bag\board it and store it away. But I like to have an electronic copy so I can travel with my comics on my iPad. Doesn’t seem right that I would have to pay twice for the same comic.

You can call people thieves or whatever you want, but here’s the deal: downloading is NOT going to go away. It’s the new reality…that’s the cold hard fact. So companies either try to find a way to make it work for them or they go extinct.

But hoping people are going to stop acting the way they do because you find it morally wrong, just isn’t going to happen. Something being illegal isn’t going to change it either (people do illegal things all the time). Calling people thieves, no matter how correct the assessment may or may not be, is not going to stop them (The Pirate Bay is called the PIRATE bay for a reason. They are practically calling themselves thieves already).

Nothing is going to stop it. It’s only going to happen more and more. Just ask the RIAA and MPAA. Whether people like it or not…the genie is out of the bottle and the culture is changing. The only option now is to get creative and somehow make the situation, culture and technology work for your business model instead of bashing your head against a wall. Tall order, I know. But the only choice left.

DC is trying to do this and they are smart for that. They will probably learn more about the best way to accomplish results as they go along.

I used to travel alot with my job, so I would download copies of titles I owned so I didn’t have to lug them around. I also have downloaded runs of comics no longer in print (e.g. Valiant, etc.). If I had scanned each issue myself at home for my own use, how is that different than downloading it after I paid for a physical copy?

If DC and Marvel offered reasonably priced electronic versions I would be all over that. Hell, if they charged 3.99 for a regular issue or 4.99 for an issue with a download code for EACH TITLE, I would gladly pay the extra dollar. DC and Marvel should be embracing the electronic version as a value added proposition, not a separate and competing product. The web has changed the playing field, but it should be looked at as a bonus, not an obstacle. It’s the 21st Century folks, change or die.

I read JL#1 in the store this morning – front to back (it was a surprisingly quick read). And then put it back. It was good, not great. I’m glad I didn’t spend $4 on it. So how am I different from someone who downloaded it? Because I read the story in the store instead of at my desk at home? Did I deprive the store of a sale? Would I have if I had read it on my computer at home?

Referring to piracy as thievery is grossly simplistic and kind of a lazy argument. You don’t have to like it. You can think it’s wrong. But it’s not thievery.

Darren,

You have failed in so many ways, it hurts. You’re an illiterate 9 year old. You should be ashamed of yourself for your simplistic English skills (if your not 9 years old), and your views on stealing. Save your comments for the playground. You want to move forward? Take a large leap off a cliff.

Hahahahahaha. I love how people still think that people who pirate are thieves… See if i donwload something & then purchase a physical copy of it, that not theft. DC has lost no money, as i would never purchase the same product twice & frankly most comic book pirates will tell you the same. Its a try before you buy policy. Yes i’ve pirated comics in the past & i’ll do it again in the future… Heck in the case of much of the older out of print stuff its essentially the only way (i’m in Australia & i refuse to spend $60 on a rat eared issue of miracle man. That money does not in any way benefit the producers of the product).

Heck if not for piracy, i would not have eventually picked up different series. I’m willing to spend money on something that is good, but i’m not willing to throw away money on products that are not good now, but may at some undisclosed time, get good.

The fact is, that people want phycial copies of stuff. Had DC given away this first issue digitally, not only would it have been good PR, there would have been a rush on the physcial copy. The fact that they didn’t shows that DC doesn’t have nearly as much faith in the relaunch as they are pretending.

Take a look at Eclipse Phase from Catalyst games. They produced a 393 page, beautifully illustrated RPG book, containing both the system & the meta-setting… Then against all common sense, they personally put it onto every single torrent site they could think of, with a message saying “please share this, with your friends”

Then they sold the physical copies in games stores & it sold like hot cakes… 2 years in & the company is still selling books at the same initial quality, but they are no longer giving them awauy for free. It was great PR & was totally good karma.

*(If you’re not 9 years old)*

Ok, you should consider this…
I’m from Argentina, the only way of getting the issue today is through comixology.
I was surprised when I didn’t see it there.
Didn’t download it via torrent, I can wait, but it’s possible that all those downloads might be worldwide, those people weren’t going to buy the comic through a comic shop in the US, so no drop in sales there.

@ Mike

that’s exactly how I’ve been doing it as well. I’ve always wanted a download code within the comic I buy, but the more I thought about it I know that it’s a piracy issue as well. Take it off the shelf, copy the code, go home and download.

But they really do need to do something to help those of us that stick with the hard copy, but also want an e-copy. Buying the comic for $2.99 and then having to pay $2.99 for an e-comic….well, I’m sorry $6 for a comic is a bit much. They really need to look into how to accommodate this for those that do this. There has to be a way to do it.

“those people weren’t going to buy the comic through a comic shop in the US, so no drop in sales there.”

An since most of those people will end up buying a physical copy anyone, no actual drop in sales at all.

George Bush (not that one)

August 31, 2011 at 8:41 am

Hmm, comic book readers that are still Manichaean.

Its not lost money for DC, they made their sale on the comic 2 months ago. its lost money for the Comic Shop.

While I don’t condone pirating comics books I would like to quarrel with a point being made by a handful of anti-pirates. Chastising people for not being able to afford a “$4 comic book” is out of touch with reality. I’m committed to purchasing 16 books. That’ll run me more than $50 with taxes. My typical monthly comics budget is $40, so I’m making a serious exception to give DC a chance and will essentially end up spending more than $80 this month (because I still need to pick up the indie and Marvel books on my pull list). Justice League #1 is not one of the books I’m committed to buying. If I could afford to buy all 52 comics, I would, but I can only afford to buy $50 worth.

I also respect I’m in a different position than many people. I have a steady income and have an average salary. I can afford to pay to try 16 books, but I think the average person can probably only afford three or four per month. That’s certainly the situation I was in five years ago.

And by making the “afford a $4 comic book” argument you’re completely ignoring what this really needs to be about – the kids. I read comics because when I was a kid I’d finish my chores for the week and get $10. I’d bike to the local pharmacy and leave with five or six comics and still have money left over. I was groomed to be a fan of mics by affordability. Is a kid going to spend a $10 weekly allowance on two comic books or is that kid going to save it up to buy a video game?

Frankly, people will always prefer a real physical copy of a comic book. DC was nuts to not think that the first thing that would happen is someone beating them to the punch with the digital version.

But this isn’t really about the piracy. What its about is the fact that the pirate bay peers called it what it is: Insipid. This single issue was not dreadful, but not at all interesting considering this is meant to be the flagship title of the relaunch. Going back 5 years was a poor editorial choice. You would have been better with a contemporary story, which touched on things that happened at the founding. Kind of like the JLA issue 0 for the last volume did

“Its not lost money for DC, they made their sale on the comic 2 months ago. its lost money for the Comic Shop.”

No its not. Its free advertising for those comic shops, as people prefer real comics over digital. The only people who missed out was comixology, who was already going to miss out to those same pirates.

Sorry, I meant pirated comics. Not digital.

Going day and date with digital is a good idea in theory but since the day and date aren’t the same planet wide.. people get screwed over.

“I get my comics through mail-order, but I only have it shipped once a month so I don’t get anything until pretty much a week into the next month.

Soooooooo…. for titles I’ve PURCHASED ALREADY, money paid like nearly two months in advance, is it bad that if I’m really excited for a book or just need to know what’s going on, I download it?”

If you’re that impaitent, then you should change your shipping frequency.

Darren, it’s stealing. You are obtaining something for free, illegally, that costs money. I agree with some of what you say, and obviously in the overall scheme of things downloading a comic book off of a torrent site is a minor offense at worst, but your attempts to rationalize/justify it do not change what it is. It doesn’t matter if you wouldn’t buy the issue regardless, if you delete it after you read it, or if you go buy it after you download it. Consumers do not have the right to access everything at any time for free, even if the existence of the internet makes this possible.

@1985 “That’s like asking a robbers opinions on a store they just robbed.”

“The staff was helpful and courteous, filling my needs quickly.”

@Tyler I understand your ‘tradewaiting’ issue, that’s what occured to me. I’m slowly collecting the Secret Six trades, as well as the New Mutants Classics.

@Jez I can’t say it’s a consensus, but I have talked to authors who are more sympathetic (or less hostile, if you prefer) to people who have a ‘dead tree format’ book and pirate an electronic version. I know it’s an issue in the RPG industry how to get Brick and Mortar retailers a safe way to get a PDF of a book they buy.

@Brice I agree with you. I don’t want to pay to ‘access’ a comic. I want an actual file, sitting comfortably on my hard drive, my backup drive and burned to a DVD for security.

“Darren, it’s stealing. You are obtaining something for free, illegally, that costs money”

Actually no its not. Theft is depriving someone of a good, or its value, with no intention of giving it back. If i download a copy of JLA & then purchase a real physical copy, i’ve not actually deprived DC of any monetary value, nor have i deprived Comixology of a product as the data once created is infinite in its ability to be replicated. An as i never intended to purchase a copy from comixology & did not take a copy from comixology i’ve neither deprived them of potential money, nor have i taken a copy of the comic from them, removing any financial value from it.

Piracy is actually breach of copyright, not theft.

Come on CBR. You’re going to run this article and not credit Bleeding Cool for the idea?

I hate owning comic books. Also: entertainment media artifacts in general (Books, CDs, DVDs)

I want to read Justice League, but I don’t believe that digital comics have the inherent value of paper comics (ebooks are cheaper than paper books, iTunes are cheaper than CDs, Netflix is a LOT cheaper than DVDs)

Soooo. I’ll see about that Justice League issue one about a month from today, alright?

Very disappointing issue. So little story for money spent. I picked this up along with a digital of Crisis on Infinite Earths #1 — and was astounded — you could’ve fit the entire JL issue within 4 pages of CoIE.

Ripoff. :-(

Drop us into the middle of an established team, take on the big bad. Make it a READ, not something you GLANCE at for 4 minutes. ot this.

I’m with Tedly. This issue was completely lame. This was not an issue 1 this was a free issue zero, with those two pages missing from the end, where we get the twist that makes us want to purchase the next issue.

I think in this case, early word of mouth will draw away more sales than piracy.

I find it funny that no one is criticizing Comixology who “accidently” made the book available on Monday for purchase then again on Tuesday. Those people who bought it Monday got a letter from the head of Comixology and a $25 coupon for “exposing the bug in their web-store”.

There will always be unscrupulous people who will download and release the book. If the publishers want to really curtail piracy, lower the prices of the digital comics. Paying the same price as paper for something that you don’t get to own is a bad idea, counter-productive and just plain greedy.

Andrew: You’re completely wrong. Pirate Bay specifically notes GMT in their date stamps, it’s not Swedish time.

I think there are two ways to go:

1) As Mike stated above, with each physical copy purchased, provide a code for a download. Don’t put that on DC to provide a coupon or whatever with a code. Something can surely be worked out between the retail store and Comixology or whomever, where a code is generated on the receipt so that if someone wants to do it this way they can take their physical copy home, and with the receipt, download a digital copy. If anyone is familiar with the publications from TwoMorrows, i.e. Back Issue, Draw, Alter Ego… they do this… you can purchase a physical copy and if you do, you get a free digital copy OR you can just buy a digital copy for a significantly reduced price. This leads me to the second way to go

2) TwoMorrows physical copies are around $7.95 per issue. Their digial copies are $2.95 per issue. What is that? Like 60% less? As someone above said, there is no physicality to a digital copy, obviously… it’s not exactly the same thing so why charge the same price? Hasn’t Apple proven how much money can be made by reduced pricing of songs? Granted, more people purchase MP3′s than comics, but if you can get those who are downloading illegally to buy a digital copy for say, .99 cents or $1.29 or whatever, isn’t that better than getting nothing from them? I’m sure some will continue to get stuff the wrong way, but many might pay a reduced price. I know I’ve had to SEVERELY limit my buying because it’s just too expensive. When I first starting buying comics, they were at .75 cents. I could afford a good amount at that price. But now, at $2.99 to 3.99? That’s an increase of at least 400%. If I spent $100 per month when comics were .75 cents, I could have had around 120 titles per month. For that same $100 dollars now, at $2.99, I can only get around 33 or 34 titles, nearly 3/4 less the amount from before.

To some degree, Marvel and DC should shoulder some blame in their pricing structures. They can piss and moan as much as they want about pirates, but they contributed to it because they’ve been gouging comic readers for years. Comics stopped being for kids many years ago, in terms of content, but even if the content was the same as it was in the old days, the pricing pushed the kids out and now it’s pushing the adults out.

Day and date is fine, trying new strategies ala this DCNu is fine, but if they don’t figure a way to make their comics cheaper, physical and ESPECIALLY digital, then comics will cease to exist at some point. And it will not be the fault of the pirates, but the fault of the companies who didn’t see the writing on the wall.

@ Clint

well put. that’s all I can really comment to that.

I do like the idea of Comixology trying to integrate with the computer programs that many LCS use to produce a code. Or perhaps find some way to integrate your username into your account so that those are available for download automatically. Either way… liking that idea.

If you want a digital copy, why pay $3?

Sorry, this doesn’t work. I have nothing against piracy and I buy my books, but if you want to curtail digital piracy, make the digital copy much cheaper. Why something that’s worth absolutely nothing isn’t $1 boggles my mind. To me, downloading is the same as reading the entire book in the store. You still get the enjoyment of the story but don’t own it, just like digital downloads.

Blame Comixology for this. The rip that was floating around Tuesday morning was the actual digital copy that isn’t going to be officially on sale for another hour. As stated above comixology accidently leaked it.

As for piracy in general, I will say that my local comic book stores and as an extension Marvel, DC and Image have made way more money off of me because of piracy then they would have. If not for piracy I wouldn’t have tried out books I normally wouldn’t have and ended up buying them monthly. A few years ago I couldn’t buy comics at all and piracy kept be interested In the characters and stories. Instead of losing interest and never coming back, I stayed a fan and now give a good amount of business each month.

I realize piracy as a whole isn’t a good thing but there is a certain segment of the population that when they do download a book it ends up being beneficial to the industry

Who could have guessed that digital pirates are such an inconsiderate bunch?

Sadly, there’s no way to see how many pirates buy the books they download, but frankly, I don’t think piracy affects sales much. I know it’s helped some books.

Whether it was available at midnight or 2PM, the majority of those downloading the torrents are still going to do it because they can get it “free”. They weren’t going to purchase if it was available. If they wanted to buy it, they would wait or head to the shops.

To be honest the digital delay has probably lost me as a purchase, all the hype made me grab my iPad this morning to get a copy to read on the commute, only to find out it wasn’t there yet. Since then I’ve read several lukewarm reviews online that have put me off. I won’t be pirating it but I doubt I’ll pick it up physically this sat, maybe in a month when the price drops but that’ll be based reader feedback.

Here’s the deal. $3.99 for digital day to date is too expensive and too slow.

I’m sorry, but it’s true. You need to understand the reasons why people pirate. Yes, some people want it for free but ultimately the pirates are offering a better service than DC.

Lets take a look at what you get for a pirated comic:
-You get .jpg scans of all of the pages that you can save to your harddrive and modify in programs like photoshop freely
-You get this on the same day the comic hits the stores
-You don’t have to take up shelf space
- It’s free.

Comparatively, buying it online from DC charges you full price for a book you do not own a copy of and cannot modify.

It’s about the service. If DC released books at $.99 and gave you files you could keep with digital pages in a usable format… I would never buy a paper issue again.

Hell, if DC released issues digital day to date at $.99 instead of $3.99 I’d probably do the same even without the ability to have pages in a non DRM format.

DC you can’t win this way. You just can’t. You’re coming at this late to the game with a 20th century mentality into a 21st century fight. Get with the program or you’re going to get run over.

“If digital lets me read the books monthly at a reasonable cost and pick up the hardcover/trades afterwards, that’d be ideal for me, sorry comic shops.”

This is how i’ve been reading my comics, but I’ve been reading scanned books and making a point to buy my trades and hardcovers at my LCS. Yeah, Amazon is cheaper. Often much cheaper. But I owe it to my LCS and I still enjoy going down there on a Wednesday. Just not for floppies.

I think DC and the Shops assume that it’s either / or with many customers, but with me it’s digital or collections. They’re not losing money on me downloading a book that I had no intention of buying as a floppy. And I’ve bought MANY collections based on how much I liked the series reading it digitally, since there is still a part of me that wants a physical copy.

To the people trying to justify thier use of a BitTotrrent site as some sort of preview etc or who “delete it after I’ve read it” and are taking issue with the term “Thief” you ar categorically in the wrong!

Laws are not “Being developed” they are developed!

If you download a copyrighted material without paying for it (licensing fee) you are STEALING. it doesn’t matter if you purchase it later it deosn’t matter. By that logic if you shoplift a book out of a store but don’t read it and throw it away that’s OK. or if you go back the next week and pay for it, that’s OK.

I have worked with Intellectual Propery rights and the law is extremely clear…this is not going to change. Bit Torrent sites are being monitored and ISP’s are routinely being suppoened for thier records..everything you DO is tracked.
You are stealing, tying to justify it for any other reason is not going to change that. If you are taking issue with the term “Thief” perhaps it’s because you ARE one!

Ok, so if it is illegal, then why not take the high road and offer the online versions at a discount or with the purchase of an actual issue for an additional fee? Make it easy for anyone to read them affordably online and the pirating becomes a moot point. If online distribution ends up killing some retailer, well, that’s how the marketplace is evolving. Like I said before, change or die.

For 40 years or more DC and their co-publishers have been telling us that the reason prices were going up on their books was because of the increase in paper and ink cost. So if it was true, then we should be able to see .25 cent digital books. Yeah I know, not going to happen. But it does underscore the enormous production cost differences in print vs digital.

I loved every comic store I have done business with over the years, but I think they are heading the way of many other brick and mortar shops in the digital age, obsolete. Within a few years (if the industry is to survive) you will see that most comics are sold in digital form and hardcore collectors will order print on demand versions direct from the publisher. Trades may be sold on places like Amazon. The cool toys and stuff you now get at the comic store will have to be sold online. It will be a sad loss, but something new will rise to take its rightful place as gathering location for we geeks.

It seems to be the case that DC are worried that buy offering a cheap day and digital copy the comic shops will close and they lose that revenue.

Thats not the case. If people want a paper copy they will go get one. If they dont they will currently download it illegally.

Right now DC neeed to be offering 99c digital copies before anyone gets the chance to pirate them.

I know its a small window of opportunity but it is better than nothing.

The only downside to the downloaders that will eventually buy is that some of them are wating for trade thus the monthly sales suffer.

One thats what happens when you drag your stories out for trades. Two it’s going to happen anyway so you might as well get that dollar per issue.

Go ahead and have the physical copies on your computer or your hard drive if you want. Just remember that when all of the creators (and don’t forget that this is who you’re stealing from, not the publisher) get together and bring a lawsuit, that your computer(s) and hard drive(s) will be subject to seizure. This means EVERYTHING on your computer, not just the comic books. You will be looking at federal time and massive fines. Don’t believe me, ask those people who have had to pay fines for pirating DVDs.

As I said above, you’re really stealing from the creators. From what I understand, they get their page rates, but they also usually get royalties for each copy SOLD, whether digital or physical. If you don’t buy it, you’re taking money out of their mouths and their families.

Go to Colleen Doran’s website and blog(for instance) to get her take on this whole piracy thing. Better yet, go up to her at a convention, and use these same lame excuses for why you download pirated copies. See how far that gets you.

Im getting bored of the people who cant think outside of of the stealing thing.

This isnt cut and dry. The comic industry currenly indirectly gets sales from illegal downloading. People prefer paper so at some point most people will buy a monthly or trade copy of a book they enjoy.

When everyone owns an ipdad it may be a different story. But they dont. Id rather buy 40 trades than an ipad right now.

The best thing the industry can do is make their books addictive again so that people want to do more than download and browse.

The hardcore peeps who are downloading and keeping is a different issue. You think saying thief will make them stop doing it. Hows that working out for the dvd and music industry. Best you can do is offer a cheap risk free alternative.

It;s not complicated. The pirces are killing the comic book industry. I know appologists don;t like to admit it but thats what its about.

How about we go back to newsprint, make the books all ages (no all ages aimes at kids) again and stop paying ridiculous page rates to diva writers when there are people around who would staff write for a normal wage.

Marvel and DC are more about their own personal tastes than what sells. Do we need glossy, splash page ridden, violent, sexual comics written by self fullfilling prophecies that one company at least calls ‘architects’.

I guarantee given a week with a shit load of writer submissions I bet I could find 100s of writers who can write better than Bendis for a regular wage. It’s 20 pages for god sake, a lot of which are splash or double page spreads. I don’t care what they want us to believe. How long can that seriously take. Plus they are only reaching 100,000 people max for the most part. That is seriously nothing. The creators runnign these companies are putting creators first. That won’t help when there is no companies left to create for.

@Darren

You are a thief if you are ILLEGALLY downloading anything. Go ahead and create anything you want, spend as much money and time as you like to create it. Let me know when you’ve put it online and I’ll download it without paying you anything for your time and money.

It is very cut and dried. Taking anything without paying for it is STEALING. Go into an electronics store like Best Buy and take a video camera of whatever is playing on the television screen in the store. Do it openly and see how much time it takes before the police cart you off to jail. This is the same principle, not that you could possibly understand this.

I notice you keep saying the publisher is the creator. You have yet to address the very obvious fact that the publisher would not have any comic (digital or print) without the CREATORS. This is who you are stealing from. Justify this however you wish.

If you truly believe that what you are doing is not stealing, then please let us know your real name. Stand behind your statements if you have the courage.

Here’s something I don’t get: why didn’t they consider that the first issue would be pirated? If they did, they could have worked something out where the digital version would be booby-trapped to anyone trying to download it illegally. Why haven’t they thought of THAT?

@Acer: I would guess you’re not familiar with downloaded comics. They usually come in .cbz or .cbr forms, and most of the time are not pirated copies of the digital comic. They are most often scans of the print comics. So there’s no way to stop that, short of banning scanners.

@Kevin: Ever read at least one page of a comic in a store and then put it back, deciding the comic wasn’t for you? The you stole that creator’s work of one page, and he will never get paid by you for it. Ever download a song off the internet? Most likely, and in that case, you stole it without paying. Ever record a movie back in the day on the old VCR to watch it later? If so, you stole it, because it means you didn’t pay for the actual official vhs of the movie later. Ever use a DVR and skip through the commercials (because they suck) of a tv show you recorded? Then you stole money from both the people who pay to have their commercials on during that show, AND the people who put out the dvd’s of that show, because now you won’t spend money on it. If you can tell me how any of those things are different from downloading Justice League #1, then I will agree with you and trash on Darren for giving his opinion (however valid the opinion might be. And he did give us his real name… it’s Darren. Wow. :P

Listen people, it’s not cut and dry. If you think it is, then nothing I say will matter to you, but consider this:

Thousands of musical-artists are getting 1000% more exposure today because of the ability to digitally share their music for free over the internet. This is their work going out to the masses, and litterally millions of people getting to hear it for the first time. Some will decide to buy all their stuff because of this, some will decide it’s not for them, but in the end the fact is this: PEOPLE WHO NEVER OTHERWISE WOULD HAVE HEARD THEIR MUSIC, NOW HAVE HEARD IT. Do the people that are in it to have their craft heard think this is a bad thing?? No, they think this is an amazing opportunity for them, and they make it work.

Apply that to comics. If I wanted to read the entire run of let’s say, Superboy and the Ravers, how would i do that? Most comic stores just aren’t going to have all the issues of this. If they do, it’ll cost me upwards of a hundred bucks to do it. Forget the cover price, some stores will jack it up based on “value”. It’s a comic. It isn’t made of gold, it’s not going to feed a country, and it’s not going to serve me breakfast every morning. It’s a comic with words that I want to read for the enjoyment of it. To me, whatever price a comic has right on the front cover, is exactly what it’s worth, as that’s how much it was decided this item should sell for. If anything, after 15 years, the price should go down, as the book is now in less than immaculate shape, or etc. But no, for some reason, this book is now $8 or $9 per issue. So who’s stealing now? The guy who goes and downloads the comic for free off the internet? Or the guys that paid a dollar or less for the book and now are trying to sell it for 10 times what it’s actually worth?

Call it stealing all you want, but stuff like this has been going on for almost a decade now, and it’s not going to stop because you’re calling it stealing. How long has DC and Marvel and all their writers known that people have been doing this? Well, about as long people have bought comics, and then photocopied them for their friends to read, circa 1990 or so. But what have they done about it? Have they tried to put fail safes in their ink and images so they couldn’t be scanned or photocopied? No. Have they lobbied along side the music industry to try and shut down certain sites or downloads? No. Have they done any work to find out how a book that HAS NOT BEEN RELEASED ended up being available for download for free multiple hours before comic stores sold the print copy, AND they released their digital copy? No.

Why do you think this is? To me, this is an indication that the creators and publishers are well aware of the downloading issue, and are comfortable with it existing as it does for now, because it has not taken a significant number of sales out of their pockets, and in many cases, has brought new readers and new buyers into their fold. That being said, it certainly should be an issue for them that JL #1 was available even before the release. That’s wrong. Somebody dropped the ball there for sure.

If the cost were $.99 instead or $3.99, I wonder if we’d see the same amount of piracy.

And, yes, I think comics are too expensive.

“While I don’t condone pirating comics books I would like to quarrel with a point being made by a handful of anti-pirates. Chastising people for not being able to afford a “$4 comic book” is out of touch with reality. ”

If you can’t afford it, you don’t buy it.
Where’s the disconnect in logic?
I’m tired of people thinking they’re entitled to something, anything, just because they want it. That’s not the way it works in life. If i’m hungry and i don’t have the money and no one will feed me out of the generosity of their hearts, I don’t eat. Simple. However, if i’m hungry and i steal a sandwich from a deli, no matter how I try to justify it, I still stole something that i didn’t pay for.

Theft.

Comics aren’t a necessity item.

J-mart:
You’re little analogy doesn’t equate. Never has. Musicians complain about piracy a s well, the “It gives you more exposure” argument is bullshit. it’s taking money out of the mouths of hands of people who worked very hard and sacrificed a lot to produce it.
“So who’s stealing now? The guy who goes and downloads the comic for free off the internet? Or the guys that paid a dollar or less for the book and now are trying to sell it for 10 times what it’s actually worth?”

The guy who downloads it for free. it’s not your property.

What amuses me about the responses in this thread is that it’s the same “You’re a thief!” “I’m not a thief!” argument that has been going on in one form or another since Napster hit the tipping point and was suddenly everywhere.

After more than a decade of this kind of thing going on isn’t it time to change the discussion? The reality of piracy- no matter your take on it- is here to stay. The music industry made a number of interesting approaches to the issue and ended up losing the opportunity to take advantage of the digital world to iTunes and Amazon and the like. Sure, they still make money off their product, but not as much as they would have if they’d spend less time suing people who were downloading and more time making a cheap alternative available digitally for the people who actually don’t mind paying.

There will always be people who download things without paying for them. There will always be people who pay for cheap downloads. There will always be people who download without paying and who go out and buy the physical object. It’s far more important- in my opinion- to make sure the stuff gets to the second and third group of people rather than trying to hamstring the first group.

I am not unsympathetic to the plight of the comic book shop, but for the comic industry to survive and thrive it needs to reach the people who will never set foot in a comic book shop. Which means looking at things like newsstand distribution, digital sales and libraries to expand the audience.

It also wouldn’t hurt if what you were paying for was more satisfying and self-contained. But that’s another discussion.

Marvel and DC sell the lion’s share of comics. As the industry leaders they should be examining ways to capitalize on the digital world and use its strengths instead of trying to make the equivalent of online comics book stores.

@Guy Fumetti

You’ve made a huge leap there. Where are people taking money out of the artist’s pocket? I never had any intention of listening to Joe Blow and The Music Bandits, so he’ll never see my money. But then I see this free download of his, I check it out, and Bam.. what do you know. He’s good. Now I might pay to go to his show, or buy an album, or etc. But before that where is the money?? No where.

If I have no intention of ever reading a DC comic, then they are never going to see my money. Is me making the decision to not buy their product taking money out of their pocket? That is your current argument right? Basically, anyone that decides NOT to buy something is therefor stealing by your definition.

We’re talking about an intangible object, that was reproduced at no cost to the original producer of the product, and was then given to other people. If my buddy bought JL#1, and he didn’t like it, so he gives it to me for free, is that stealing? Now, two people have read the comic, but only one paid for it. What if my buddy buys comics, then gives them to me, then I give them to someone else after I read them, then again and again and again. Only one person paid for it, only one person ever contributed to DC Comics for that issue, but by the end of the chain, hundreds of people have read it and either enjoyed it or hated it. Is that stealing? Is using comic books for their intended purpose, to read, and then share with others stealing?

So where do you draw the line? Please tell me, as I am sure you are just bubbling up with an argument…

@Chad – that’s a great point. If the publishers/creators/LCS were not going to make any money off of that first group of people anyway (those who’d download it for free, and not any other way), then it makes no sense to waste time and resources focusing on them. They’re not your target audience.

Your market are the people that WILL pay money for the books, in one form or another. But why focus on those who are able to and want to buy them from a shop? You already have them. You want to focus on those who don’t have comic shops or means to buy physical copies.

My home town has no shop, nor is there a shop that sells comics within 300 km of me. That isn’t an example, that’s the reality in my hometown. Someone like me wants to buy comics, but can’t, because there’s no one around to sell it to me. So this digital medium is great. But then DC drops the ball and the digital copy isn’t available for 8 or 9 hours AFTER the print one is. Suddenly half the world is reviewing it online. Now I’m left with a choice, wait another day to download something that I’ve heard is crap, or download it now for free and see for myself if it’s worth spending money on. The people like me in the world are potential money to DC that they are currently losing because they’re not focusing on a way to get a book in my hands or a digital comic in my ipad before I hear the product is crap.

“Ever record a movie back in the day on the old VCR to watch it later? If so, you stole it, because it means you didn’t pay for the actual official vhs of the movie later. Ever use a DVR and skip through the commercials (because they suck) of a tv show you recorded? Then you stole money from both the people who pay to have their commercials on during that show, AND the people who put out the dvd’s of that show, because now you won’t spend money on it.”

Wow. You clearly have NO concept of copyright law or the legal precedent applied to it over the years. Maybe this is just me, but I don’t usually go around shooting off at the mouth (or fingers, as the case may be) when I’m utterly clueless on the topic of discussion. I wouldn’t, for example, attempt to argue rocket science with a rocket scientist. I’d just end up embarrassing myself, which is exactly what you’re doing here.

And you have to wait a whole eight or nine hours to get a book? The horror! You poor, deprived thing. No wonder you have to steal it instead.

The sense of entitlement is so thick you could cut it with a knife.

“I don’t like the cost of comics, but I DESERVE to read them!” “Pay the creators less money so I can be entertained for pennies!” And that guy has the audacity to keep mentioning “morality.” What a sad lot who participates here in feeble attempts to justify theft. If people don’t pay for their entertainment, I don’t get get a check. I have sympathy for my friends and (now former) colleagues who’ve lost their livelihoods in the last couple of years, but all I see from people who think it’s okay to take their hard work without paying for it is the petulant whining of children who were apparently never taught some pretty important life lessons. It doesn’t matter if the people who work to provide the entertainment they *claim* to enjoy can pay rent or put food on the table. No, all that matters is that they get their funny books right now and free of charge. Or they might pay a dollar for it if you ask really nicely and they’re feeling especially generous. “Give me your work for a buck, or don’t get mad when I steal it!” You don’t deserve to be taken seriously, so you’re wasting your time when you complain that others refuse to do so.

I realize it’s asking far too much, but you should be ashamed of yourselves.

Typical. Another self-righteous opinionated mouth piece that thinks no one but him deserves a say in the matter.

How does it feel to be up on that heavenly pedestal? Lonely up there by yourself? Don’t forget to chastise Jesus on the way down because he broke the law of the time by preaching another way of life…

You seem to be pretty focused on the legal problem of pirating but not on the benefits and opportunity it provides. And please share with us your years of expertise in copyright law and enforcement. You accuse me of not knowing or being familiar with the law. I haven’t cited any law. I’m merely saying what other activities could be considered morally wrong and prevents someone from receiving potential payment for their work. If I tape a movie off the tv rather than buying the vhs or dvd, then am I not taking money from that director/producer/actors/etc?? If i record a song off the radio rather than buying their cd or mp3, am I not taking potential money away from that band/musician?? You can’t choose to act one way for one artist but another way for another artist just because the law says one thing is wrong but does not mention the other.

The law is flawed and rarely takes into account the things that the internet allows us to do. It’s illegal to go over a posted speed limit, but I don’t know a single driver that doesn’t go 5 to 10 km over the speed limit at all times. It’s illegal, but no cop in the world will stop you from going 5 km over the speed limit. It’s illegal to jaywalk, but how many people get away with it everyday., even when a cop is around to see it? Most mp3′s are results of copyright infringement/music pirating via the internet, which is illegal, but how many companies make millions of dollars every year off of mp3 players? It’s illegal to possess or use marijuana, but you can legally own or sell paraphernalia like bonks or pipes, even though their primary use is for using marijuana. Laws are broken everyday, and some people are punished for some of them, and others are not punished at all. Is that alright? Should the law be a buffet style line where we can choose to follow some laws and the police and law system can choose some they will enforce but not others?

@J-Mart
Okay…then why not put some sort of microchip that causes the print comic to be un-scanable?

Thinking Fan's Boy

September 1, 2011 at 8:59 pm

The Seeders/Leechers numbers on Pirate Bay are not the total numbers, they are the numbers for the time stamped on the the site when you view it. In other words, at 6:30 am, 210 people were actually, at that moment, downloading the file and also “seeding” it for others to download, while 23 were just “leeching. As of 4:10 GMT today, 306 people were seeding, 10 leeching. Those numbers really add up. There is no way to know, but the total number of downloads since late Tuesday night is probably in the tens of thousands from Pirate Bay alone – and that is just for one specific scan on PB. There are others which have their own numbers. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to speculate that JL#1 has been illegally downloaded well over 100,000 times all told. Maybe more

Being a fan of comics has become incredibly expensive. It’s actually very sad. I wasn’t able to buy comics through junior high & high school because my family didn’t have the kind of cash flow to afford it, y’know? What could I do? Am I thief? I guess I am, as much as that label hurts me. Should I expect Superman’s next walkabout to include a scathing criticism of the terrible deeds of those who pirate comics?

I work a minimum wage job. It’s not a lot of money, and I am doing my best to move ahead and life. What little money I have left over at the end of the month goes to the local comic shop. But, let’s put it this way. I make $800 a month. I pay $400 in rent. I put $100 in the gas tank every month. I spend $150 on groceries. $50 goes to Comcast, and $100 or less goes to my local comic shop. I know there are fans of comics in worse situations than my own, and what do they get when they simply cannot live without comics? They’re declared THIEVES? The thieves are the assholes who raise the price on our favorite books to 3.99 for some bullshit reason. Don’t even get me started on Marvel Comics, goddamn.

*sighs*

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