Robot 6

Rob Liefeld walks off three DC titles ‘to preserve my sanity’

Deathstroke #0

Rob Liefeld, who teased last month on the heels of Grant Morrison that he too would be leaving DC Comics soon, announced his abrupt departure this morning with a flurry of tweets criticizing his editors and the handling of the New 52. Although he’s listed in the solicitations for Deathstroke, Grifter and The Savage Hawkman through November, the writer/artist states that next month’s zero issues will be his last.

“Officially got off the DC52 treadmill this morning,” he wrote, adding, “I believe in what DC is doing, but had to preserve my sanity. I walked off all 3 books. Can’t wait to see any attempts to spin. I have every email.”

Liefeld was among the original creators when DC launched the New 52 a year ago, penciling and later also writing Hawk & Dove before moving in May to Deathstroke (writing and penciling), The Savage Hawkman and Grifter (plotting both).

“This is the 4th time I quit in the last 4 months. This time it will stick,” he wrote from a theater, where he was watching The Expendables 2. “Never thought the Image section of my book would be topped. This last year was a humdinger. The DC52 chapters will go top all of it. […] Reasons are the same as everyone’s that you hear. I lasted a few months longer than I thought possible. Massive indecision, last minute and I mean LAST minute changes that alter everything. Editor pissing contests… No thxnjs. Last week my editor said ‘early on we had a lot of indie talent that weren’t used to re-writes and changes … made it hard.’ Uh, no, it’s you.”

Liefeld is only the latest creator to exit DC’s New 52 titles amid complaints of a relaunch plagued behind the scenes by disorganization and indecision. Notably, George Perez expressed his frustration over the repeated rewrites and lack of creative freedom that he contends led to his run on Superman being cut short.

“Don’t look for any tell all interview with me,” Liefeld added. “Just follow this feed. … the best stuff has not been shared — not even close!”



Whether you like Liefeld or not this is just a further indication that Didio and Lee are going down.

Another reason not to like Rob Liefeld: he uses his phone during movies! HE’S ONE OF THOSE GUYS!

Seriously, though, what a disaster the New 52 is devolving into. While Marvel has their own set of problems, at least on the creator relations side, their writers and artists seem happy, and there are tons of examples of writers happily staying on the same book for years and years and years. Outside of Geoff Johns (who, as a member of corporate, doesn’t really count), DC can’t say the same.

Wow, Rob Liefeld acting like a baby and extraordinarily unprofessionally. alton’s wrong: this is just a further indication that Liefeld is an idiot.

I think this further proves that the DC reboot did not need to happen. Dc was loosing money because of the interference from editorial rather then too much history. Dc screwed over Dwayne McDuffie on his JLA run and Sean McKeever on his Teen Titans run and that was before the Reboot. DC needs new people running the show because they are running everything into the ground.

What an absolute boondoggle the Nu52 has turned out to be. Good on the creators for holding management accountable for their ineptness.

A Concerned Citizen

August 22, 2012 at 1:30 pm

Talk about mixed messages:

“I believe in what DC is doing . . .”

“Editor pissing contests… No thxnjs. Last week my editor said ‘early on we had a lot of indie talent that weren’t used to re-writes and changes … made it hard.’ Uh, no, it’s you.”

Not saying he isn’t right, but it sure doesn’t sound like he believes in what they’re doing.

They do need to step back and let these books breathe for a while instead of constantly tweaking and re-inventing broken wheels.

All you have to do is read Joshua Fialkov’s interview to see the flip side of this coin.

He was singing their praises not long ago…pretty unprofessional to send out this information, those who yell the loudest usually have something to hide…don’t like the guy and now I don’t trust him.

DC just needs to take a lesson from Marvel. Take a retreat plot out your direction for several months at a time. Then you have a clear idea what you are doing and allow the creators to do what they do.

Laughter and I told you so’s echoed thought out the Comics-verse.

What in Liefeld’s track record would make the higher ups at DC think that Rob could pull this off? He is probably the worst at starting stuff and never finishing it. For ever book run he completes, 3 are left to rot. No conviction.

I’m no Liefeld fan but what he says rings of truth.

52 is a boondoggle — what a mess!

This week’s news of the Superman/WW hook-up reeks of bad Internet fanboy fanfiction…

In addition, the fact that they jettisoned so much history for the vanity of one man (looking at you, Dan Didio),
I’ve gotta say that the current DCU lacks the gravitas and majesty of former incarnations.

No JSA… No Golden Age characters… The Wolfman/Perez Titans never happened… Batman mysteriously has several “sons” working with him over 5 years… The JLA has become generic and Jim Lee can’t save bland storylines… This makes no sense!

I think a lot of people were looking forward to some sort of restoration of what the various Crises destroyed…

Too bad we got the NuCoke Zero version of DC! Not filling, tastes like !$#!

So you notice that the worst books in Nu52 are the ones where writers are bitching. The titles I care about are not even close to being canceled and I dont hear any whining. Its DC of course editors are more involved. Writers arent doing creator owned work. Especially with Nu52 until after Trinity War nxt yr if I was an editor I would be more involved until the universe is more established.

Another “creator” who can’t meet deadlines walks, and Jack Kirby (who NEVER met a deadline he couldn’t meet or beat) turns over in his grave.

And they wonder why comics are dying…

Wonder if one of the issues is Geoff Johns…
heard his late books would cause content changes to those that had been in on time.
Also have to wonder about Johns’ lack of maturity with regards to his plots.
Its like he seeks to realize his child hood DC fantasies.

Ummmm—let’s not forget that Liefeld cannot even maintain consistency on his own titles. I called this month’s ago that he wouldn’t last six months on these books. I think it is time for the industry to admit this guy is a no talent hack that is just trying desperately to hope that a half-baked set of ideas he created years ago (Youngblood / Bloodstrike) can actually become movies so that he can make a living off merchandising. This guy is a buffoon.

I’ll be the one to make the predictable response to the very mention of Mr. Liefeld’s name.

I don’t know what was done that ran him off. I don’t know which side is right or wrong. I do know that it was painful to look at and read every DC property that I read, which he had a hand in.

I was kind of excited about his Hawk & Dove, as I’m one the duo’s enduring fans. I LOVED his illustrations on it, back in the day, but it was a big disappointment. The kinds of things I disliked seemed unlikely to be about anyone’s decisions but his own. I could be wrong. In the case of the art, I don’t think so.

Oogly illustrations on top of very weak dialogue and plot development.

So, again, even from a distance, I’m not sorry to see him go.

never badmouth the corporate overlords, eh? when you do, you’re “unprofessional.” how in the world anyone ever thought the new 52 was something other than corporate mandate shitting on creative is beyond me.

Wade Winston Wilson

August 22, 2012 at 1:48 pm

Well, it’s pretty funny that the solid writers have delivered like hell on New 52 books, i.e. Snyder, Azzarello, Johns, Lemire, Tomasi, Morrison. DC probably told him he had to make the books at least bearable, and he cried about restrictions of creative freedom. Good riddance to him; now maybe I’ll pick Deathstroke back up.

Interesting, as much as I dislike Liefeld’s craft (if you want to call it that), I’ll support him regarding the “massive indecision, last minute and I mean LAST minute changes that alter everything. Editor pissing contests…”

Talk to any creator at a convention that worked on the reshit that is no longer working at DC and they will tell you the same thing or current writers/artist will state the same thing.

When you hire Rob, you kind of know what you’re getting. The guys style, approach, and skill set hasn’t changed since he helped start Image. That being said, you kinda know what you’re getting when you hire him. Guess Lee and Didio thought Liefeld’s name would draw a crowd. I blame DC for everything that’s going wrong with the 52. Should have been decisive about this whole reboot thing. Smelled of gimmick soon as I found out Batman and Green Lantern continuity were being kept. I wish Rob all the success in the world, however I won’t contribute to it unless a miracle happens and he vastly improves as an artist/writer/creator.

sorry for the double thought above

In fairness..I tried Liefeld’s run on Deathstroke after enjoying the previous issues of the New52 title and Liefeld didn’t deliver (yes I on earth can you NOT deliver with a Lobo storyline?). Additionally..where I loved Liefeld’s art on XForce I’ve come to dislike it’s the usual criticism…all the characters look physically alike.

Having said that though…one can see that the New52 is causing problems for the creators. DC right now seems to be more about policy than about creativity. Even the amazing Scott Snyder had a dull issue of Batman in issue 12 after the thoroughly enjoyable Night of the Owls storyline. Instead of dealing with the political and societal repurcussions in Gotham after the assasinations…Snyder went with a thoroughly trite Tim Drake wannabe story that reeked of political correctness…which brings me back to my suspicion that DC is all of a sudden about policy rather than creativity.

I we really need zero issues? Seriously? More gimimicks? Wasn’t throwing away all that wonderful continuity enough? What happened to “Pandora” the left over figure from Flashpoint? We got a free comic book day issue with her hinting at a big event..then…nothing..we get zero issues instead. Clearly something’s amiss at DC.

I’m saying this with a heavy heart because I tend to favor DC over Marvel. I truly believe DC has had the better stories and characters..yeah I’m a huge Batman fan…but lately Marvel has been luring me back with Rucka’s excellent Punisher run and Brubaker on Winter Soldier. Truthfully? The best comic on the shelves today is Planet of the Apes over at Boom..but that’s another debate for another day.

Bottom line..Didio may have lured the talent over to DC (and we’re seeing those contracts expiring now) but he’s also been making some terrible decisions for the brand. The New52 stands as one of those terrible decisions..I mean seriously…Snyder’s James Gordon Jr storyline was amazing..and DC dumped it. Zero issues every sense of the term.

And here’s to the new Judge Dredd movie which looks bloody amazing.

Apparently, acccording to sources, the editors were brazen enough to ask for realistic anatomy and hands and feet. That was the last straw!!!

Liefeld is a diva pure and simple. He hasn’t been relevant since the 90’s. When things don’t go his way he quits and talk smack. His art hasn’t evolved since then. Overly muscled bodies with small heads and no feet. DC lucked out. Don’t worry Liefeld fans I am sure you can catch him again when he relaunchs Yougblood for the 50th time.

he’s actually doing them a big favour by leaving. the sales on those books have bottomed out since he took them over (just like the cancelled Hawk & Dove). The ugly covers alone that he’s been doing would be enough to stop me from buying them. I’m a wait for trader and other than Tony Daniel’s run on Hawkman, would never have bought them even though I’m a huge DC fan. his art style is just so dated now and he just doesn’t seem to have evolved in his style or talent whatsoever! this is coming from someone who bought many of his books in the ’90’s and very much enjoyed them at the time but now… no thanks! DC is better off and I’m sure some of what he’s saying is true especially for the super talented George Perez to say similar things but Liefeld is not even in the same category as a legend like George.

Maybe after 15 or so years in the business he realizes he sucks? Maybe he also realized he is too big an a-hole to get along with other people?

I am not a Liefield fan at all–but I am noticing a pattern among DC’s books—the one’s I have been dropping, due to uneven creators, all seem to have the same editors. I am now avoiding books by two editors at DC–more or less. I liken this to those of us who seem to end up with the same kind of partner again, and again, and again. At some point you have to ask yourself if maybe the problem is with you (editor) and not the other person (writer/artist). Anyway…all this confirms to me is my long held suspicion that many Editors wish they could write, have the creative ideas and implement them, and so work this frustration out on their talent.

I believe all that needs to be said has been. So here’s my two cents.

Liefeld isn’t the most talented of people at DC, but he’s not the only with editor issues. If it continues to happen, and it does, then it’s a real problem.

DC you are getting it wrong. I have been a DC reader since 1977 and have the experience to say you can’t continue down this path. Your creative talent is what makes these characters who they truly are. The Supermans and Batmans of the DC Universe are icons, but even icons can be ruined (ask Marvel).

DC needs to give their talent more creative expression. Stop ruining what can be an extremely successful 52.
If you are using indie talent it must be because they are talented storytellers. You’re not hiring them because you believe they will make great yes men and women. Let them do what you hired them to do. For example, Superman is a joke right now. He’s your company’s most iconic hero and yet his book is junk. Find a writer who can craft great stories and let them rebuild the Man of Steel into something other than a cancelled book.

DC, don’t be afraid to step back and say we’re doing it wrong and we need to fix it. You’ll be respected and creatives will want to work for you.

Whatever they did to run him off and to whoever was chiefly responsible (in his mind)…thank you!

I’m no fan of Liefeld (look at his ridiculous Deadpool rant from a couple weeks back) but I’m inclined to believe him here. Whether you buy into the DCnU or not, it does seem to be riddled with last-minute changes, fly-by-night decision-making, and creative choices that really do make it play out like somebody who sure loves him some DC fanfic and took a Screenwriting 101 course has been put in charge of steering the boat.

I find myself dropping more and more DC every month, whereas it used to eclipse Marvel, Image, etc. in terms of what I was buying. And as the shine continues to come off, I think ultimately we’re going to regard the New 52 as colossal a blunder as the Heroes Reborn idea was back in the 90s…only this time it infects the entire line.

Please… not again!

25 years after, I still don’t believe you can use space and time for talking about him… Rob Liefeld is just the worst comic book artist ever. Even Pat Broderick, Bret Blevins or, I don’t know, Tom Lyle are much better!!! The guy can’t draw bagrounds and all his characters are angry bodybuilders. He’s a shame for all the industry, and by the way not a very bright person to say the less. He was born to draw Masters of the Universe or maybe Batman Adventures, not Hawk & Dove or New Mutants!!!

When I read they want to make movies about his creations, I just can’t understand why.

What we need is real creators like Joe Kubert (yeah, I know he’s dead, so sad…) Steve Ditko (he must come back one last time like Neal Adams!) or Walt Simonson (the man who can deliver every time), not an old fanboy only interested in hyper violence and telling ad vitam eternum the same stupid story.

In my country (France, yes you can shoot me too), artist of his level are not allowed to work.

I love comic books for almost 30 years but I can’t stand the mediocrity of Rob Liefeld.

I root for the underdog, but crap in a sandwich, Rob is awful. How can anyone think his art is good?

The best news of the week. His books had low sales anyway.

Liefeld, DC? They still do stuff?

Rob’s not mediocre. At worst you get a C- for mediocrity. No, he’s F+ at best, I (incomplete) at worst.

Uh, sadfran, Bret Blevins is one of the strongest comic artists of the last 30 years. What have you been smoking?

Whoa whoa whoa.

1. Love or hate Liefeld, the fact is that he has left dozens of projects hanging. It makes sense he would do it again. He also has a track record of calling out colleagues, both on the creative and on the management side.

2. When a product isn’t selling well you can expect to have management step in to make changes. That’s the way the world works. Working with them in order to right the ship is also necessary.

3. You don’t hear complaints from the vast majority of the New 52 creative teams. Just from the ones that have had their books “ruined” by editorial conflict. That tells me that management is doing a good job of telling the creative team that they need to improve. Why is that a problem? It’s called real life.

4. The only problem I see with this whole issues is that DC tried to use Liefeld’s name recognition to sell books and ignored the fact that his last book was a disaster (H&D) and he is horribly unreliable. They should have given those books over to new, fresh creative teams to see what they could do.

5. An example of how DC can handle a comic correctly is Blue Beetle. The title has disappointing sales but it is a great read; the art and story are both well above average with no “superstar” writers or artists. DC is showing the kind of patience with the title that is completely opposite of Liefeld’s description of their management. I, Vampire and Demon Knights are other examples of these low-selling but high-quality books that DC is nurturing.

Thank god he’s leaving DC

As a comic book fan/avid reader – and not someone who gives a rip about the office politics involved – Liefeld’s art blows. Not even close to up to par with modern comic book artists. The Savage Hawkman stuff was visually scintillating, until he starting pencilling. There was nothing he brought to the table for any of the three books he was put on after causing the abortion known as Hawk and Dove. It was a terrible, awful book. I say, “Good riddance!”

So all of you that are criticizing Liefeld’s art hate exaggerated anatomy, crazy poses, and ridiculous stories?


“I believe all that needs to be said has been. So here’s my two cents.”

That is just about the greatest thing I have ever read on the internet.


I like Bret Blevin, but you have to admit he work too fast, his Batman and Ghost Rider are a painfull read when you know his older works.

The same with Pat Broderick, the best penciller of Captain Marvel after Jim Starlin, but Alpha Flight… no thanks!

And Tom Lyle… yeah, Tom Lyle… LOL

(sorry for my english, remember, french!)

When you have high-caliber professionals like George Perez talking about dealing with the same exact stuff Liefeld is describing here it makes me inclined to believe he is telling the truth.

So like…we all understand that the quality of Lifeld’s art has nothing to do with whether or not he was treated well by his editors, right? Or is this just another excuse to shit on the guy and miss the forests for the trees?

I find Liefeld’s art horrific, but that has literally, absolutely 100% NOTHING TO DO with the story.

I’m sorry, whether you liked how things were going or not, this is highly unprofessional and something you’d expect a freshman artist to do not a “seasoned pro”.

Frankly, he should be privileged that any company allows him to continue to illustrate “professionally” with the quality of work he puts out. Being able to turn a book in a limited amount of time does not equate what you are doing is actually good.

Undeniably, this is good news. I hold no animosity towards Rob, but his contributions have been bloody awful.

The fault for this lies with DC Editorial. Why on earth did they commission him in the first place?

Yes, there are many successes in the new 52, in my opinion, due to key talent & in spite of the editorial teams.

The commissioning of certain marvel editorial senior staff, followed by an influx of ex-marvel, 90’s focussed talent are developments that need undoing. An editorial reboot, if you will.

I wish DC would stop with what’s becoming obssesive group-think, take a step back, a few deep breaths & focus on hiring better talent to address poorly executed properties. Then, once they’re on board, leave them to do their thing with minimal interference.


Alex Ross, Brent Anderson, Gil Kane, Guillem March, J H Williams III, Ivan Reis, Guiseppe Camuncoli, Dave Gibbons, Frank Quitely, Simone Bianchi, Norm Breyfogle, Jim Lee and undred of other artists are the proof comics are more, much more real than the idea you have of it.

Agreed MattComix…if it was just Liefeld with these complaints you can write it off as another sour grapes Liefled rant. But other artists and writers who are greatly respected , are hinting at things that are amiss at DC so you have to take notice at that point.
Sure…I’m ok to see Liefeld leave DC but I’ll be happier to see DC leave the New52… or even happier to see Didio leave DC. I truly dislike the way that man has run the brand. I applauded him for bringing in so much good talent when he took the reins at DC but he’s squandered it by put shackling that talent to stupid company policy decisions. Heck even the new logo sucks….and they’re a business that deals in the grahic arts medium…sheesh.

Enough gimmick over creativity already.

I’ve dumped so many DC titles since the New52. Robinson is a joke on Earth 2. Liefeld was a laughable on Deathstroke. I’m enjoying Gi Combat but it’s already dragging a little and only 3 issues in. I dumped Action and Superman after the first issues..huge let downs..yes and I’m a Morrison fan. Suicide Squad has veered into mediocrity after a solid start. I’m only sticking with the Bat-titles out of loyalty to my favourite comic book character and until issue 12 Snyder and Capulo were hitting homeruns on the main title.

Don’t even get me started on the awful Justice League New52. When did Hal Jordan become Deadpool without the bad skin condition?

Not to stir the pot anymore, but anyone notice the drawing at the top!!!!! His right hand only has 4 fingers, the gun looks like a typical Liefeld weapon fake and cheesy, his right eye is missing and the weapon in his left hand looks like a kids version of a pirate sword. Finally, where are the FEET!!! If I was his editor I would be ordering changes too. “Change the way you illustrate!”

OH GOD!!!!! Reading other websites about this!!! Go to bleedingcool and see his Grifter #0 Cover. Wow, I want to fire him again. 4 fingers, weird guns awkward poses.

Matthew Solomon

August 22, 2012 at 2:50 pm

The qualityof Deathstroke really nosedived when Rob Liefeld took over as writer and artist. The plot was formulaic and boring and he took a dumpon Lobo, oneof my favorite DC characters. The book was much better when Kyle Higgins was writing.

At first, I thought we might be witnessing the beginning of the end of NuDC, but it’s unlikely. They’re selling books, albeit not to their original fanbase, or the people who supported them for years.

This is no longer “my DC”. This is a DC for the next generation. It’s how they’ll do it, until sales drop and management realizes it’s not worth the investment, and they’ll force out the current regime in place of someone who’ll bring their corporate overlords the big bucks.

As I said, DC for the next generation.

I’ve no love for Mr. Liefeld, for his style of art (I’m being generous and diplomatic), but I’ll respect his decision at attempting to keep his principles. That being said, I don’t see this as being the last departure. I have a feeling, as contracts run out and people get frustrated, more will leave.

This just in…Liefeld leaves DC…feet reappear throughout the DC Universe.

Comics are primarily a visual medium. With that said, VISUALLY, Liefeld’s work (to me) is less than appealing compared to the host of artistic talent that’s out there regardless of the publisher. I have always been baffled as to why DC threw any eggs into this particular basket in the first place. I don’t know what the politics are at DC nor do I truly care to know (there are many other things that rate higher on my list of concerns) as long as good titles continue to get published. Is that happening? YES! If titles like Aquaman, Batman, Wonder Woman, and Justice League (to name a few) don’t satisfy you, you are empowered as a consumer to not support these titles or this publisher! Unless you work at this company and have witnessed firsthand events that allow you to confirm what you’re hearing as fact, we must always remember there are two sides to every story and somewhere in the middle is the truth. Not saying creators who bash DC are lying, but I don’t know all the facts and I’m not too sure there are too many of us posting who actually do so let’s not rush to judgement on either side of the equation! As far as Mr. Liefeld is concerned, I’m simply not a fan of his work and in my own personal experience, I have been hard pressed to find anyone at this point in time who truly is.

Take it for what it’s worth!

Is it just me or does Liefield do nothing but complain!


I shouldn’t be surprised to read so many comments from people talking (err… typing) out of their @ss but c’mon guys, do your homework.

Liefeld has been on time with his DC work from the beginning. He’s been professional. He took 3 books which were honestly VERY boring and made them a lot more entertaining in a very short time. I’ve read all 3 since the 52 relaunch and can honestly say they’ve been a lot more fun since Liefeld came onboard…

From everything I’ve read , He’s spoken highly of DC and believes in what they are doing. Even so , everyone has their breaking points. (ask George Perez). At some point you have to draw a line and walk away. If his editor (or whoever) continually crossed the line he has every right to walk away. If he wants to vent , I don’t blame him. At least he can give his side of the story. If he said NOTHING there would no doubt be the same idiots flaming him without reason online….

Any way you slice it….. Rob Liefeld was an asset to all 3 books he was working on. It’s a loss for DC.

Oh, I thought The Rob was doing this to preserve OUR sanity…

I’ve said it once, and I’ll say it again. Stop with the stupid “events” crap! Just make comics! It’s overkill! This is why I’ve dropped so many titles in the last few years, and can never stick with any one title for a long period of time. They get going and then, blammo, a “Secret 52 Infinity Challenge Crisis War” starts.

Stop making comics for stock holders and make them for comic fans! The ones who went to San Diego con to meet comic creators and not movie stars!

*Note: It’s sad when I agree with Rob Liefeld. This tells me things have gotten serious!*

Flowers, well it’s always a matter of taste, but you’re the only poster I’ve seen across bleedingcool, newsarama, ifanboy & here to speak up for his recent work & to make the daring claim that it was good.

Good for you but I have to agree with Jose & suggest this is a boon for the mental health of the DC readership.

Bring us the head of Bob Harras!
He’s the real source of the many problems of which Rob Liefeld was one symptom.


Rob is that you?

Let’s face it… New52 sucks. All Liefeld was doing was making it suck slightly harder. Besides Animal Man, Swamp Thing and whatever that wackadoo thing China Mieville is doing on Dial H, all the New52 titles are just painful. I blame corporate… as usual. Hell, they’ve managed to make it impossible for even Grant Morrison to write a decent Superman story. Time to de-boot, and to send DiDio and his team of lackeys packing.

victor gonzalez

August 22, 2012 at 4:13 pm

best news Ive heard…Rob’s art is awful. No backgrounds, everyone looks like Cable or dead pool…ugh horrible. His art doesn’t evolve either…still looks 90’s. Maybe he was told to learn how to draw better.

I drop Dc when they did the stupid reboot, erased the Marv Wolfman, George Perez’s Teen Titans era, erased Tim Drake, Cass & Stepahie Brown from Batman’s history and Wally West as The Flash (of my generation, so Allen’s fan dont get mad). Till they (DC’s ”higher brains”,excecs or whoever is in charge) start listenings to the ones who pays their salary (US FANS), I think theres no change for the better. In other words were scrwed!!!
P.D.- All this time I thought Liefeld was retired since Heroes Reborn. Glad to se nothing had changed ;)

The funny thing is… he’s acting as though anyone will give a damn.

Let’s face it – Grifter was dead in the water anyway, and the other two aren’t far behind. Rob, buddy, no one cares about you. Get over it.

American Hawkman

August 22, 2012 at 4:36 pm

Well, the apocalypse is upon us: I’m actually SAD that Rob Liefeld’s leaving a title. If you’d told me six months ago that him being on Hawkman would be the best thing that’s happened to the character since Geoff Johns left the book, I’d have thrown holy water on you and demanded that you return to the pit that spawned you, yet here we are. The stupid title’s actually got spectacular (Non-Liefeld, naturally.) art, and Rob was plotting it out very competently in such a fashion that it read like a good action film… yet his name being what it is caused the very sorts of folks that would have enjoyed it to flee in terror. (I’m not immune to this. I IMMEDIATELY dropped Deathstroke and Grifter upon the announcement of his coming onboard.) Unfortunate all around.

Dan Didiio and Jeff Gohns and cohorts all seem like nice guys. Nice dudes who have no business being in charge. Stan Lee they are not.

I dropped DC after they dropped the ball post Final Crisis.
The lead up to Final Crisis was poorly handled.
Despite the success of the original 52.
Its sad. That original weekly series was excellent.
And yet DC ignored how 52 was put together and gave us Countdown to Final Crisis, which was the polar opposite to 52. In fact the Countdown itself was ignorant of the plot for Final Crisis. IE Didio’s right hand didn’t let the left in on what Grant Morrision was cooking up.
Of course then we had Superman Grounded.
Great Idea.
Before that Geoff Johny Johns and Donner team up with Kubert’s son to give us a great looking piece of crap tat did not ship on time….

I’ve never been one to accuse Rob Liefield of being an artist, but I support him on this one.

I am embarassed by some of the personal unpleasant remarks being made towards Rob Liefeld. They’re just out of order.

By all means, get the boot into a piece of work. You have it in front of you. But, the creators? They deserve respect for their enthusiasm & hard work, whether it suits our individual tastes or not. They do not deserve lily-livered & vindictive abuse.

I am no fan of Rob’s work but American Hawkman has made an excellent point & reminded me not to be fixed with my opinions.

When it comes to this guy’s tribulations in dealing with DC Editorial, he certainly does have my sympathy & also my respect for fighting his corner.

3. You don’t hear complaints from the vast majority of the New 52 creative teams. Just from the ones that have had their books “ruined” by editorial conflict. That tells me that management is doing a good job of telling the creative team that they need to improve.

How many of those top selling books have strong writers that can stand up to an editor and get away with it?
How many books featured characters that were not overly affected by the reboot?
How many are books that really don’t need editorial help?

Look at Static-if that is the best an editor can help create I hate see what is their worst. Same with Voodoo, Firestorm, Blue Beetle & most of the Young Justice Line.

I stopped buying after Flashpoint. I’m also very sad that the Wolfman era Titans and Justice Society golden age characters have been wiped out. I’m also sad about what they’ve done to Captain Marvel.

Seriously people if you wanna hate on anybody, Bob Harras would be the guy. As for Liefield, who cares? If you don’t like his art, don’t buy his books. I’m a Marvelite myself, but I’ve dropped books I stopped enjoying too, although not usually due to art, but actually editorial choices (you KNOW those awful clichéd endings that force a dovetail for some event). It’s why I prefer the books closer to the edges like Remender’s UXF, Venom, or Winter Soldier. Also, I’ve noticed the same thing with DC’s books, the “less” important books, like Justice League: Dark and (the amazingly illustrated courtesy of Nicola Scott) Earth 2, seem to be able to take bigger risks without the editorial yoke bearing down. Truth be told, Batman and JL were both BIG letdowns (Earth 2 is what JL should’ve been). At least Brevoort and Co. are predictable. Make Mine Marvel! None of this matters anyway cause DC is a bunch of punks for the most part.

To put it simply: Rob Liefeld has as much talent as Rob Granito–which is to say, none. The only difference between the two is that Liefeld can’t draw feet and Granito can’t draw. Neither one of them belongs anywhere near the comics industry.

I think the important point here is that we have another creator complaining about interference from editorial and execs with reagrds to their stories. I do not understand why DC would hire creative folk like Perez and Liefeld (regardless of whether youl ike his work or not, the bloke has created a heap of characters, stories and worlds) only to shackle their creativity to a “committee”.
I have tried the Nu 52 and ditched all but Batwoman, Animal Man, Swamp Thing and Batman as most of the stories were bland. Perhaps this is the reason why

Leifield’s art is horrible, just look at his Deathstroke #0 cover. Ok, I know I’m in the minority here but I belive the new 52 was a good idea. The problem is that DC.placed the same ppl who ran the company into the ground over the last decade in charge of the reboot. Static Shock was a disaster and was a huge miss for DC. JLI was a disaster as well as Teen Titans.and all the Superman books. However, DC has done an excellent job with lesser known Dark character’s like Swampthing, Animal Man, I, Vampire, Frankenstien titles. Great job on WW and Batman. But it seems the higher up in Time Warner are dictating to Dan, Jim and Geoff what they can and cant do so they can try and make movies etc. Marvel is no better at the moment bc Axcel has run Marvel off a cliff with these same tried stories. Sure Waid and Rucka are there but big deal! Marvel sucks right now too. And Lefield was just prasing DC last week, I can see now why ppl online hate him so much.

James Crankypants

August 22, 2012 at 6:02 pm

I have gotten the sense since the announcement of the New 52 and the books that were being dropped and characters retconned out of continuity and that Johns and Lee were going to be heading up their flagship title that DC was under a very dollar-focused regime (which is strange, since they don’t have nearly the amount of “superstar” writers and artists that Marvel has) and the more fringe books were going to be under significant scrutiny. Surprisingly, some of the riskiest books have been the most successful in their storytelling, such as I, VAMPIRE and FRANKENSTEIN AGENT OF SHADE. So I don’t quite know if it’s really just the editorial staff or if it’s actually the lack of talent that seems to be the clarion call regarding Liefeld that’s causing some friction, but I’m not fans of the way that DiDio, Johns and Lee have taken it upon themselves to essentially run the show, particularly since JL is everything that fans of the TRANSFORMERS-style of films want in a comic, and GL has been just awful. The only book Johns is doing good work on is AQUAMAN. I still get a few DC books a week and there’s come incredible stuff going on there with work from people like Snyder, Lemire, and Fialkov. I could piss all over DC for the things that upset me (like the distinct lack of SECRET SIX in favor of the dreck that is SUICIDE SQUAD), but I will just wrap it up by saying that if Liefeld never did another day’s work in comics, either writing or drawing.

The New 52 is great.. All you bitching about it saying that they have no creative talent and the books arent good, look at scott snyder on batman, kyle higgins on nightwing, geoff johns on GL and Aquaman, and Azzarello on WW. I could go on. I was reintroduced to comics through the new 52 hadn’t read many in a long time because how do you start a comic with 650 some odd issues?? This was a brilliant move from DC and has done what they wanted it to do INTRODUCE NEW READERS and keep it creative. You people who hate have probably read all 650 issues and are in the minority. Not everyone has been reading comics since the dawn of time. Thanks to DC I’m now going every Wednesday and picking up many titles. And lets not forget the sales numbers 6 of the top 10 books ans 15 of the top 20 in the diamond sales chart and a bigger market share than Marvel in comics. So keep bitching and ignore the facts. Good riddance to Liefeld, now that was a bad DC decision to hire that hack i can agree on that…

Although this will harldly put an end to DC’s self-inflicted problems, this is pretty good news.

I thank the person(s) responsible for making Liefeld quit.

Although I will miss playing “how many fist and gritted teeth” can i find on a single page before putting his comic back on the shelf.

I believe rob because this isn’t nothing new. Hear the stories about what went on with 52 and countdown. I believe because this follows on George Prez said and I have lot of respect for that man for what he has done. I believe both of them more then anyone dc now a days. They have lied to us over and over again. Because of that I believe George, Rob, anyone else who come out with these kinda stories in recent years over anything DC spins on this.

“I’m no Liefeld fan but what he says rings of truth.

52 is a boondoggle — what a mess!

This week’s news of the Superman/WW hook-up reeks of bad Internet fanboy fanfiction…

In addition, the fact that they jettisoned so much history for the vanity of one man (looking at you, Dan Didio),
I’ve gotta say that the current DCU lacks the gravitas and majesty of former incarnations.

No JSA… No Golden Age characters… The Wolfman/Perez Titans never happened… Batman mysteriously has several “sons” working with him over 5 years… The JLA has become generic and Jim Lee can’t save bland storylines… This makes no sense!

I think a lot of people were looking forward to some sort of restoration of what the various Crises destroyed…

Too bad we got the NuCoke Zero version of DC! Not filling, tastes like !$#!”

Exactly. Depending on which month it is Tim Drake was never robin. Their is no history or majesty to the universe. At least Crisis On Infinite Earth was able to keep that. They have radically changed characters and wrongly introduced Wildstorm characters into DCU. I won’t even go into Allen Scott but seriously what they did to some characters it’s really crazy. I look black canary in Team 7 in bury my head in the sand.

“Any way you slice it….. Rob Liefeld was an asset to all 3 books he was working on. It’s a loss for DC”

Except for sales, art quality, coherent plotting, horrible English, and characters who have 5 digits on each hand.

If you don’t count all those, Rob was totally kicking ass there.

Now Superman is going to date Wonder Woman. I doubt that stupid idea came from Rob. DC is turning itself into the kind of bad joke company they always tried to argue they were not. Garbage, complete garbage.

Dang it, Waid, you beat me to that comment.

It DOES rather sum up the internet nicely though, don’t it?

Bye Liefeld – Good riddance… and don’t send us letters. :p

Good news… but if anything, Liefeld is part of a “What’s wrong with this picture?” scenario that is DC’s current state.

I’m enjoying the books I am reading. That is all that matters in the long run.

Editorial messes and creator tantrums have little bearing on what I chose to spend my money on. Interesting stories with appealing art trump all of this back room foolishness, and so far that is what I am getting in enough instances to justify repeat business.

I’m not saying that Liefeld isn’t being a diva. He probably is. It’s easy to write him off as being disgruntled or delusional. HOWEVER, he’s not the first person complaining about the behind the scenes antics at DC. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it’s a duck. Diva or not, Liefeld is yet another creator confirming what we’ve already suspected. DC has got some major problems to sort out. Otherwise, there will be more creators going. This is NOT an isolated incident. For once, and I’m shocked to be saying this, maybe Liefeld isn’t just being Liefeld.

I’m surprised Liefield lasted this long. He has a habit of taking his pencils and going home when editors challenge his story or art. He is a terrible writer, an okay artist and all his “original” creations are ripoffs of characters and concepts he has worked on in the past. As for Perez on Superman, he expected hands-off? C’mon get real.

Admittedly the New 52 has not always delivered. The most compelling of the new books is World Finest and Earth 2. I came back to comics via digital delivery after some 10 years and find very little from Marvel or DC that are even readable.

I’ve never really cared for Liefeld. I wasn’t aware of all the backstage drama at D.C., but kinda figured his runs wouldn’t last long. Maybe his replacement(s) will make those books worth picking up.

I’m genuinely conflicted about this whole situation. On the one hand, we’ve got Rob doing what he does best when he’s not blatantly ripping off other people’s ideas or producing horribly contrived dialogue or atrocious artwork: complaining about his situation while taking his ball and going home. I can’t believe this would actually surprise anyone. On the other hand, we’ve got New 52 which, creatively and editorially, seems to be what many have suspected for months: an absolute FUBAR. So, while I’m happy to see that hack gone, I’m sad to see that DC editorial is so screwed up that he’s not the first to bail, nor, I’m afraid, will he be the last. DC needs to get its act together quickly.

I have no opinion about Rob Liefeld, or what is or isn’t happening to Tim Drake, because my DC reading has stabilised at 6 titles.

From this I can tell you that, whatever is happening with Superman and Batman, the New 52 is done very well indeed round the edges.

All Star Western is amazing and amazingly consistent. It is how genre-mashing should be done: a western that mixes detective and social fiction. It also gives a very neat extra dimension to the new universe with its look at the beginnings of Gotham.

Animal Man and Swamp Thing are together telling a story that is keeping me hooked every month, and also both doing very interesting long-term world-building.

Dial H started out excellent and is getting better and better. I know that it is currently semi-detached from the DC universe but the story it is telling seems to be getting bigger and bigger, and I am hopeful that it will eventually have wider repercussions.

Flash is near the centre of the DC universe and I see no signs of editorial interference there. Visually it is stunning and over the last few issues the story has picked up pace. The story of the much altered Rogues seems to me to be going somewhere, and it looks as though it might turn out to be a positive change. (I say this as someone who really liked their previous reimagining as “working class” criminals.) If it has a weakness it is that there are possibly too many ideas for its own good: I am still waiting to find out what has happened to Patty and all the others trapped inside the Speed Force. Hopefully I will one day!

The sixth comic I am reading regularly is New Deadwardians, which, in its own way, is as good a genre mashup as Jonah Hex.

My point is that the DC Universe is many layers and the layer that skirts the fringes is IMHO benefitting greatly from the soft reboot.

Let’s not forget that Bob Harras was the one who almost drove Marvel into the ground back in the 90’s.

Inmy opinion … and remeber folks I’ve been reading comics for about 40 years….
When they rehashed DC.. they should have went back to old school with just 2 Batman titles.. 2 Superman titles.. one Justice league..well, you get the idea. These companies are getting more and more money hungry and just throwing crap out there to see if it works ( and making people pay ouit the butt !! ) and thier blaming the artists if they don’t !!! So pressure is put on everyone except the big wigs who are staring at thier bank accounts and crying because they lost a few pennies !!! THEY’RE GETTING TOO BIG FOR THIER SHORTS !!!
CONCENTRATE on the base titles and not spread everyone so thin with all the rediculous spin offs and I beleive everything will come together !!! Some of this crap is just silly !!
PS: I don’t buy comics from stores..TOO DAMN EXPENSIVE !! I now get them second hand or graphic novel format. Lord knows they aren’t worth collecting anymore !!! :0

Love, love love that he was watching, of all things, Expendables 2, and tweeting at the same time. It’s like a Rob Liefeld joke.

It’s important to remember that content aside (And I have not connected with a lot of the new titles myself…feel very “Elseworlds”) financially it has been a HUGE success and revitalized not only DC’s sales but the industry as a whole.
Read Brian Hibb’s article on the subject.
Bottom line, as much as long time readers would LIKE to go back, this is here to stay and DC is determined to get things out on time and synched up and it may be that didn’t work well with Robb’s workflow.

I never really like his work anyway. He never learned how to draw feet. He does his best to make sure his characters feet are not seen. (See above artwork) When he does find the drawing of feet unavoidable, they are oddly shaped and undersized. And I have never been a fan of his story telling either. He never seems to go deep into a story but seems to keep everything more superficial.

I can only see this as a good sign. Liefeld hasn’t drawn anything work looking at since his original Hawk and Dove with the Kessel’s. Maybe I’ll pick up Hawkman and Deathstroke again.

I am surprised he can talk and chew gum at the same time. Good Riddance, Rob go away (pectoral muscles and wrists are not that hard to draw).

I understand that he didn’t like the way he was being treated and left DC. I have no problem with that. The issue I have is instead of walking away gracefully, he is throwing mud at DC, his former editor, Marvel circa 1996, and anyone else. It looks like to me he is enjoying the spotlight and doing anything and everything he can to keep it focused on himself. For a “professional” he sure isn’t acting like it.

I really hope that DC keeps Joe Bennett and Art Thibert on The Savage Hawkman. Those two are knocking it out of the park.

On a more positive note? I enjoyed the heck out of how guys like Chuck Dixon and Ed Brubaker and even Joe Casey were writing Grifter in previous books. Hopefully someone else will come in and have a good story to tell with that character again…

Last week my editor said ‘early on we had a lot of indie talent that weren’t used to re-writes and changes … made it hard.’ Uh, no, it’s you.
My favorite half–ayed quote. Uh, no, the indie talent was Rob. Try putting out a title for more than 4 months. Maybe we all will cut him some slack. Naaaah, you gotta let your broken thumbs heal. They’ve been broken since the 90’s. This sounds like a great contrived reason to quit so he can collect his “Bloodstrike” advance and go play Xbox without a ‘boss’ telling him what to do. Never buy Liefield garbage–never, never, never! I hear a Taylor Swift song coming on–DC can’t help but improve now!!

Mark Waid, you are a funny, funny guy.

Go finish Infinite!

I’ve always maintained that Liefeld hate originated and is fueled by two sources:

1. People that liked his work back in the day and are now mad at themselves for it.
2. People that are pissed that Liefeld’s designs and style were so heavily and undeniably influential to comics while whatever small name creator they love has languished or continues to languish in obscurity.

No. No, Red Comet. You don’t nearly see that same sort of heat when it comes to the likes of Larson, McFarlane, or Lee. No. Rob Liefeld is a unique exception. The Rob Liefeld hate originated and persists simply because he could not and STILL cannot draw well. Yet, somehow, he remains in such high demand. That’s the reason for all of the venom.

Perhaps of all the working pros out there, Liefeld has the weakest grasp of anatomy. He’s just terrible. He breaks backs. He can’t draw hands or feet. His proportioning is way off. He over details and in all the wrong ways. He’s bad. At most, he’s a highly accomplished amateur. I don’t think that people would necessarily mind his style so much, or his affinity for big guns and pouches, if he could actually draw.

Worse yet, as he gets older, he gets lazier. He’s been known to, essentially, stick figure entire issues and then let the colorist or inker draw the actual stuff – all in his name. It’s sad and pathetic.

Again, with regards to the hate HERE…. Y’all need to get over yourselves. Liefeld it a whiny guy. We all know that. HOWEVER, I get the strong, strong feeling that he’s not really whining here. Nu52 has been plagued by these rumors since day one. DC has been plagued by these issues since before that. Didio and his crew have a lot to answer for to the creators and fans themselves.

While I could definitely see merit to the argument that DC’s higher-ups are creating confusion and inconsistent messages that trickle down and impact creators’ work negatively (see past comments made by John Rozum and George Perez), the issues seem to be plaguing some creators and some titles more than others at DC. For example, while the Superman titles have been a big mess, most of the “Dark” titles (especially Swamp Thing, Animal Man, I Vampire, and Dial H), Azzarello’s Wonder Woman, and Snyder’s Batman seem to be enjoying quite a bit of creative autonomy, and that’s been verified by what the creators on those titles have said in interviews on this site and elsewhere. They could all be lying and hiding how horrendous working conditions are at DC, but I doubt it coming from some of these guys. So the point is that while some things are messy and there are creative problems plaguing some titles, we can’t say that EVERYTHING DC is doing is a mess. One thing I think they really need to improve on some of their titles is creative consistency- allow a writer or artist to actually stay on a book for more than a few months (which is tricky when you’re also mandating that everything must come out on time). Also, although I’m sure some of the blame can be laid on DiDio, Lee, or Johns, let’s also remember who their EIC is- Bob Harras. This is a guy who really messed Marvel up back in the 90s, and I feel like some of the problems we’re seeing at DC right now are VERY reminiscent of the problems at Marvel in the 90s.
Also, I’m finding it really hard to respect Liefeld’s complaints in this case. Of course there are many examples of inconsistencies in his work (to say the least), but the more recent one thing that pops in my mind is his abrupt departure from his and Kirkman’s ‘The Infinite’ at Image last year. That was a book HE co-created (so he had part ownership in), and yet he left complaining of “creative differences”. If he couldn’t even handle working with a writer who clearly praised his work in interviews and seemed to actually WANT to work with him, and left that title complaining publicly about many of the same things he’s complaining about here with DC, maybe the problem isn’t with the company…

Bring him aboard Marvel for their reboot!

Here’s the thing… NONE of us know for sure what’s going on at DC. We don’t work there and only have -second hand information from creators (Hale-Fialkov, Perez, Liefeld…), rumor mongers (Bleeding Cool…) and comic news sites like this one.

Having said that, if I use my eyes and look at the content of the books and at various creators’ track records, patterns start to emerge:

1. There are some high profile New52 books out there that one would think Editorial would be all over which are knocking (IMO) it out of the park every month: GL, Batman, Nightwing, Flash, Swamp Thing, Wonder Woman, Batwoman… etc.

2. There are ‘fringe’ titles that are also knocking it out of the park every month: All-Star Western, I Vampire, Blue Beetle, Supergirl, Shade, Frankenstein, Animal Man… etc.

3. The creators who are having issues, and coming out publicly with those issues, with DC Editorial are the ones who over the last few years (if not their whole career) have had issues maintaining a high quality, consistent product.

4. Those who are not having issues, and coming out publicly about those non-existent issues, with DC Editorial are creators who have proven they can maintain a high quality, consistent product.

Now the question remains: Is this happening because of or in spite of DC’s editorial team?

Read my lips: I DON’T CARE!!!!!

I don’t care if Liefeld and Perez think their shit was messed with because neither have put out a product worth buying (again, IMO) in years. Liefeld, in fact, has NEVER created something I wanted to read or look at. And I don’t care that Hale-Fialkov has a great relationship wit his editor. All I care about is whether or not the book i currently have in my hand is worth reading. If it is, great, the publisher of said book gets my hard-earned money, the creators get a paycheck and the world keeps turning. If the book sucks, and isn’t worth reading… get this… I DON’T READ IT!! And the publisher looses out on more of my hard-earned money and maybe they’ll do something about it so that down the road it does become a book worth reading.

Now, I have been a comic reader for 26 years and I have a vested interest in the continued success of the medium. As such, reliable information about the inner workings of the industry are of great value to me. So, although I ultimately don’t care how a book gets to be good, I do care when I read about things that are detrimental to the industry. And I just don’t think that a, in some people’s opinion, heavy handed editorial team is one of those detrimental things. As a manager of a staff of 25 people, I can say with some authority that when someone isn’t performing to standards you work with them until they do. And if they still don’t, you get up all in their shit and monitor their every move and you make edits to their work and show them those edits to make sure their clear on how you want them to do their work in the future. At that point there’s two roads the employee can take. One, they can tow the line and do things the way you want them done. Or two, they can walk. Either way, shit gets done the way it needs to get done.

If that’s a problem for some creators, then I hope they find their way to the self-publishing/creator owned building and find success there.

Thanks for reading.


Mike the Lizard

August 23, 2012 at 9:21 am

As an artist myself, I saw great potential in Liefeld in the late 80’s, but he’s a classic example of arrested development who has seemingly made no attempt to improve either his drawing skills or his storytelling techniques. Lots of tiny lines do not cover up anatomical anamolies, deficit of established background settings, or unimaginative guns, spaceships or other items (that don’t have muscles and are therefore not fun to draw).
I read that Rob wants to concentrate on more mature, creator-owned work. He described this as more violent and bloody… know, mature. Like “Expendables 2″.

Stress, deadlines, and inexperienced managers are in every line of work so citing that for quitting job really isn’t all that surprising. Some people flourish in that environment, some flounder, just the natural order of business. It just means we get to see a hungry writer that is willing to work harder step up and “hack it” at DC. What I don’t understand is the desire to immediately go on the defensive and justify his reason for leaving. It sounds so unprofessional to run to twitter or start referencing emails you have saved about your poor treatment. Just leave and do your own thing silently with tact. It makes it easier to read his next venture without the drama of his last. Maybe its therapeutic for him to vent, but its hard to have sympathy for him with all the drama.

I’m with Deuces. Has DC said ANYTHING about Liefeld yet? Meanwhile, he’s acting like they left a dead horse’s head in his bed, and retaliating with the fury of a thousand exploding suns.

Liefeld gets a lot of criticism. Here I have to agree with him. DC’s ideas might seem nice (diverse characters, genres, female solos and at least attempts at minority solos, Static Shock, Mr Terrific, Batwing) but something has to be going on there. Nobody likes last minute changes especially with deadlines and if they’re working on 3-4 of your books you should make things easier not harder on them. If too many creators are having problems with editorial like it seems I think they need to do something about that. Morrison, Perez and Liefeld are big names despite what some may say about the latter two these days.

Jim Lee has made some lame designs on costumes (the turtleneck thing on Superman, Aquaman etc and armor on Superman of all people, don’t forget his problems with the Wonder Woman costume pre-52). There is also the perception they have with creators about their handling of Watchmen, at least Alan Moore’s wishes. I just wonder if Jim Lee would feel the same if someone came on to take over DC and treated his Wildstorm characters the same without caring how he feels. Liefeld has been producing work at a pace I didn’t think he could keep up with but amazingly he did it as long as he did. His writing/plotting on Hawkman is among his best writing. Is that saying much? I don’t know but the title did become more interesting with him writing it. Plus the art took a huge leap up at least the interiors did with Bennett/Thibert onboard. Honestly Deathstroke and Hawk & Dove aren’t my thing so I can’t judge that but I thought Grifter also improved with Liefeld doing it.

You have to wonder what’s going on with DC to lose all the talent they lost over the previous years particularly writers like Waid and Brubaker. Jim Lee being an artist is more focused on that end but with the new52 it’s the writing that is suffering more than anything. I love the art on the Batman titles, Hawkman, Aquaman, Green Lantern titles. Earth 2 and a few others. Lee/Dido need to get their house in order. Not by coming down on the talent but maybe they need to check who they have as editors because that seems to be a problem for them. Thinking Lee/Dido have their heads focused on too many other things than just the books.Though I also don’t need anymore Lee changes for the sake of change. Especially some of his lame ideas for costumes. I loved his art back in the day and still like it but his designs are overrated, especially when he is not drawing the characters but creating designs for other artists.

The Superman line (outside Superman) needs a makeover already. Superman comes off as a cold fish without his connection to John & Martha Kent and relationship with Lois. It’s hard enough to make Superman cool these days but when you remove iconic aspects of his coolness (his humanity despite being an alien) it leaves absolutely nothing to relate to.

Even a broke clock is right twice a day

Brian from Canada

August 23, 2012 at 12:04 pm

Leifeld hate is about his art, pure and simple. That’s not what this is about.

Perez hit the nail on the head: there is no plan. Period. He had to wait for Morrison to decide if Superman fit in with Action, and it’s hard.

The same thing can be said about Leifeld. Note that Rob had not expressed any problems with the cancellation of Hawk & Dove. Now, he says editorial is too much on books he’s writing with greater connection to the DCU: Grifter no doubt gets push about the Daemonites from the writers of Stormwatch and Voodoo, and Stormwatch supercedes what he writes; Hawkman is teaming up with Green Arrow, and Arrow’s going to have a more prominent role in the DCU thanks to the TV series; and Deathstroke probably wants to be borrowed by a writer or two.

Without a plan or rules, Rob L. can have his stories changed at the last minute, which isn’t good when you’re juggling three.

I don’t blame Bob Harris here; we haven’t heard from him and he’s never had such a record of problems (at Marvel, the X-problem was line editor Mark Powers). I blame Didio, Lee and the people at WB who decided on the Nu52 without defining HOW it should work. A month more of planning would have fixed a lot of these basic continuity mistakes and made it much easier to go on.

There’s a reason why the successes are having no trouble, and that’s because (a) they’re by the big guns, (b) they are too fringe to be important, or (c) they’ve stayed away from crossovers with other characters. As the universe gets tighter, b and c are vanishing and we’ll see more problems.

PS Harris didn’t drive Marvel into the ground in the 90s, it was the higher ups: they had a stock fight between those who wanted it to lose money (Revlon) and those who wanted success to breed toys (Arad). Harris is responsible for some of the stronger events in the 90s, as well as the launch of the Ultimate line that Quesada takes credit for even though he’s run it into the ground worse.

The Boy With A Herve Villechaize Tattoo

August 23, 2012 at 5:00 pm

While I DO think that there’s some serious restructuring necessary at DC overall in regard to the quality of a lot of the titles, there’s a reason I’m only reading 7 of them. Most of what I’ve viewed hasn’t been up to par for me. The ones I AM reading are the ones that I’ve found to be most to my personal tastes and what I want of their wares.
When the New 52 first started, I sampled a lot more of the #1 issues and found what I considered to be the diamonds in the rough. I liked Scott Snyder’s Batman and Swamp Thing. Animal Man, All-Star Western, Aquaman, I, Vampire, and (initially, until I felt it lost it’s way a bit) Resurrection Man. A lot of other titles seemed okay enough, but not to the point of wanting to keep with them on a regular basis. Then a lot of other titles were just not to my liking at all.
One of those latter ones was Hawk & Dove.
Liefeld is just not my cup of tea. As most seem to cite, his art and writing aren’t all that. At least not to me.
If anyone likes his stuff, by all means, have at it and enjoy. I DID sample his Hawk & Dove (friend’s copy) and was glad I didn’t get it. Same with his runs on Savage Hawkman, Grifter, and Deathstroke. Just more of what I didn’t get into when it comes to his work.
His stuff isn’t anything I wanted and whatever. That’s me.
I will say he’s only voicing what others like (one of my favorites) George Perez and others have cited as to what they’ve had to go through working for the current DC regime.
Not disputing that in the least and I DO find myself agreeing on that aspect. Hell, when I sampled the first issue of the current Superman title, I found myself citing the very problems that Mr. Perez did after he left that title. When he eventually came out with that, I found myself none too surprised of it.
The writing seemed on the wall from the get-go.
Now I will say, I’m not by any means a hater of the rebooted universe. Not what I would’ve done. If it were ME running the show, I’d have kept the previous universe intact, but set out a mandate overall to the editors and creatives to not be so dependent upon touching on past continuity so darn much.
Just forge ahead and tell new stories, without rebooting everything.

As such that I do see Liefeld’s point, no matter how on top of the creative comic book food chain he may see himself perched at. No matter how much money and successes he’s enjoyed or will ever enjoy in comics, movies, whatever. His comments on Twitter calling out fellow professionals and making snide immature comments in the manner of which he did is just puerile. He seems to be one of these people that fall under that delusion of even bad press means good press.
Press may be press and keeps his name in the spotlight, but in no way does good/bad press wipe away the stain of acting like a petulant child who’s mummy turned off his favorite Victorious dvd because he can’t play well with others.
What a friggin’ child!

I case anyone here was thinking of continuing to side with Mr. Liefeld, have a gander at this…

…and watch your respect disappear faster than you can say ‘What an assho…”



August 23, 2012 at 6:02 pm

In pondering the immortal Liefeld – I thought I’d look back today at the progressive boink Web site that immortalized him years ago. I discovered that they have updated their list with 40 new Liefeld drawings, so I thought I’d share:

maybe there were so many last minute re-writes and changes for Leifeld’s and Perez’s books because they are terrible writers. Boring, predictable, dated, and derivative.

Also, I don’t think some of you know what “boondoggle” means (definition: a project that is a waste of time and money) . . . from the sales numbers we’ve seen since the New 52 launched, I don’t think anyone can call this a boondoggle.

Liefeld’s exit has definitely been entertaining though, in a car-wreck sort of way.

Dear DC Comics:

HATE TO SAY I TOLD YOU SO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :P

This guy epitomizes everything that was wrong with comics in the 90′s. The fact that he hasn’t improved or evolved over the last 20 years is a testament to how poor an artist he is. How he’s continued to get work is beyond comprehension.

What’s truly sad is that he’ll probably find work again.

DC is a run-a-way freight train and no one (DiDio/Lee/Harras/Johns) REALLY knows what to do next.

Even Grant Morrison said they were on a path of insanity and uncertainty.
And when a man like that says something like that then there’s a problem.

not only does it sound like dc has too many cooks in the dcu kitchen and thus why they seem to be having talent like grant and perez quit their books. but rob saying bs that its the editor on his books fault when he was still finishing the book uncalled for and just asking for dc to black list you from ever working for them again. though guess this means he will go back to image or work on his own crap

A lot of people in the comic fan community are either singing or playing this song right now:

Shut the door when you leave and please never come back. Thxnjs.

What’s that Rob? A company expected you to do your job and hand work in on time? SAY IT ISN’T SO?! Thank GOD your hideous presence is leaving comics. The only things worth a damn you’ve ever created were Deadpool, Cable and Supreme, and even then it wasn’t until they were written by other writers!

That’s my message to Harras, DiDio, Lee, and Johns:

He had sanity?

And, really, Rob…texting from a movie theater? How gauche!

I think it may be for the best that Liefeld stay away from comics for everybodies sake. It may be true that the 52 series aren’t being handled well but this mans art work is certainly not helping the case. I mean that Deathstroke cover is hideous! So dated and undynamic.

Help me understand this predicament. How does one of the world’s biggest hacks, who leaves a trail of bills behind him everywhere he goes, stole (nay, plagiarized) copious amounts of various art forms, and has the gall to look a gift horse in the mouth by walking away from a job i(n this very financially-tight industry) ‘for his own sanity’ still able to get work?!? Seriously, what kind of incriminating pictures does Liefield have on these publishers?

Good riddance, Liefield. Your brand of disproportionate, incomplete, and just plain adolescent scribbling you call ‘art’ will not be missed by those who appreciate the fine talent of true illustrators. Don’t even get us started with your unprofessional behavior, your diva-like nature, and your bloated, swollen ego. Perhaps while on your own self-imposed hiatus, you could finish better than you started by LEARNING TO DRAW!

Folks, please remember that there are plenty of fresh, creative artists who want to generate revolutionary illustrations that gets us to think about the story and character through the beautiful medium of comic books.

I was off line while all this was going on, I come back and THIS has happened. I feel like I fell into a ball pit full of hugs.

Liefeld gone.

aaand relax.

Please gods any of you listen, let him find employment fitting to his skills, test subject for animal suppositories, cup holder for a homeless guy, the guy who has to scrape used gum of the bottom of tube train seats.

Cause if any clown wants to employ him after this? it’ll prove beyond a shadow of doubt they are thicker than a Mackies shake that’s been left in the fridge over night.

Wow Robot 6, you deleted my comment even though my comment was true and constructive? I assume you did so because I said Rob’s full name and you wanted to avoid any internet police attacking you. Oh well.

I still stand that Liefeld is overrated and he’s not a professional comic book artist or writer in any shape or form. But I’m advertising this as an opinion, not a fact.

See SOPA and the DMCA’s guidlines as proof! Anyways, I REALLY missed when the internet was about freedom of speech, too bad cyber bullies ruined it for everyone.

Keep it professional Rob. Glad to see you go!

Actually, Rob, the “best stuff” is that you’re no longer screwing up three of DC’s best titles. In about four months time you totally ruined Lobo’s backstory as well as making Deathstroke practically unreadable. Your art (and Jim Lee’s) hasn’t changed or matured (i.e. gotten better) in 20 years. Punch in, brother: Image was big news in its day, but now it’s old news. Glad to see you gone, sir.

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