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DC Comics responds to Orson Scott Card backlash

Orson Scott Card

Faced with the growing backlash over its decision to hire sci-fi author and vocal gay-rights opponent Orson Scott Card to contribute to its new Adventures of Superman anthology, DC Comics has issued a response that may do little to satisfy critics.

In a statement released to The Advocate and Fox News Radio, the publisher said, “As content creators we steadfastly support freedom of expression, however the personal views of individuals associated with DC Comics are just that — personal views — and not those of the company itself.”

Best known for his award-winning 1985 novel Ender’s Game, Card has become notorious for his writings over the past decade on homosexuality and his outspoken opposition to marriage equality. A board member of the National Organization for Marriage, a group dedicated to the opposition of same-sex marriage, Card in 2008 endorsed the overthrow of the government following rulings by “dictator-judges” upholding that same-sex couples have a constitutional right to marry.

In his open letter to DC posted earlier this week, comedian Michl Hartney addressed the issue of freedom of expression, noting that it isn’t Card’s “personal views” that have so many people up in arms, but rather his actions.

“There’s a difference between having conservative political beliefs and being an active force of bigotry and hatred. Card is the latter,” Hartney wrote. “So draw away, Ethan Van Sciver, you fabulous Republican! Fine with me! Orson Scott Card, however, is in an entirely different, unjust league.”

As of this morning, nearly 8,000 people have signed an online petition asking that DC drop Card as a writer of Adventures of Superman, and Tuesday afternoon Dallas retailer Zeus Comics announced it wouldn’t order the print edition of the digital-first comic.

Adventures of Superman debuts online April 29 and in print May 29.

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185 Comments

“As content creators we steadfastly support freedom of expression, however the personal views of individuals associated with DC Comics are just that — personal views — and not those of the company itself.”

You’d think that an official statement from a publisher would use proper grammar and punctuation. Sheesh. Who’s running the show over there?

“First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out – because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the communist and I did not speak out – because I was not a communist. Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out – because I was not a trade unionists. Then they came for me – and there was no one left to speak out for me.”

Our store will order it just fine with no qualms.

It’s a shame Van Sciver’s talents will be wasted on a comic being written by a hate-filled bigot. I want no part of it.

The comedian nailed it on the head: It’s not his beliefs, it’s his actions. DC would never associate with an outspoken member of the KKK. OSC is no different.

“Personal views” stop being personal when he actively uses them to slander and oppress an entire group of people.

Card’s a very talented writer. He’s also a guy with douchebag beliefs. For me, the latter cancels out the former, as it’s difficult for me to separate art from artist if the artist is a dick. And in this case he is, so I won’t be buying this series. DC is sending a bad message to its gay readers. Would it be as quick to hire a KKK or Neo-Nazi member?

Let your wallets speak for you. Don’t buy it if you are opposed to Card and buy it if you agree.

What if his personal views were that segregation should be reinstated? I find it really confusing that so many people don’t see being an active chair member of a group like the National Organization for Marriage is no different from being the chair member some kind of racist organization.

Add Funny Business to the list of stores that will Not carry this comic book.

My wallet says, “I’m not buying anything written by Orson Scott Card-carrying Bigot.”

DiRT: Then your store supports homophobia. Please post the address so that I can make sure not to shop there.

pretty cowardly response, but I don’t expect much from multinational corporations.

This “story” is so ridiculous I’m inclined to purchase Adventures of Superman #1, along with a bunch of Orson Scott Card’s books. And I neither follow Superman or have read anything by Orson Scott Card.

I don’t want to punish my retailer, since my standing order is literally 3/4 DC comics and really, would DC even notice? But you know what? Actions like this make it harder to read their books. Homophobia is NOT an opinion. Bigotry is NOT an opinion. ACTING on both, as Card has done, is unacceptable. Putting him on the most recognizable character in ALL of comics — a role model for everyone — is unfathomable. I’ve already dumped my Superman titles due to horrible quality (The “H’el on Earth” storyline was stupid, and I won’t be back any time soon. Maybe it’s time to rethink the rest of my support for that company and to find alternatives.

Goood for DC! I have no problem with Card writing Superman. And isn’t it hypocrisy to to say your actions shouldn’t back up your beliefs?

We now need a database of how every comic creator thinks, feels, (and votes!) on all controversial issues. Which comic creators have supported pro-choice candidates? Which comic creators have supported pro-life candidates? Have any voted for Proposition 8? Voted against it? Support Planned Parenthood? Don’t support it?

And for the love of all that’s holy WHO AMONG THEM HAVE EVER DINED AT A CHICK-FIL-A???

Political litmus tests for everyone!

Wow. This may be the biggest bout of overreaction that I have seen since the Chic-Fil-A debacle.
JUST. DO. NOT. BUY. IT!!
Quit drawing attention to it, and it will more than likely fall under the radar like every Superman project since he was killed back in 1992 or whenever.
Vote with your wallets, and quit giving DC and Card the free press.

I’m going to buy TWO COPIES!!! Wait… am I supposed to buy it or not buy it??? Someone please tell me what to do!!!

OSC is a horrible writer, let him hate. Because when all comes down to it, his work will end up in a $2 bin at the local bookstore. Ass-hat

Foucault warned us of the coming of the Bougeois Homo-sexual agenda, it supports money, censorship and control. It’s only a way to destroy what was once a beautiful subculture and now it’s been altered by perception and surveillance to speak and it speaks for power.

On an unrelated note, dude needs to get a better pair of glasses.

I know, I’m a horrible person.

This article makes me hungry for Chik-FIl-A.

There is an excellent article by a gay rights activist and his interactions with the owner of Chik-Fil-A and how they came to an understanding. Worth a read

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shane-l-windmeyer/dan-cathy-chick-fil-a_b_2564379.html

Where are people getting this “prevent him from working” thing? Boycotting the book doesn’t mean DC doesn’t pay him.

Plus, as I’ve mentioned in other threads about this, love him or hate him (I don’t care for his writing), dude sells books. A LOT of them. I would even go so far to say he sells Stephen King levels. He doesn’t need to do comic books. He clearly loves doing them. He seems to genuinely love comic books and I’m sure writing Superman is a dream come true for him.

I just choose to not share in that dream, but I pretty much refuse to read Superman except when he’s written by Grant Morrison or Mark Waid, anyway. And I’m sure there are fans who wouldn’t read books by them even if they were threatened at gunpoint to read or die. Doesn’t stop them from working, either.

Rick- Isn’t it hypocrisy on Card’s part to work for a company that actively promotes gay life in a number of there titles? I guess his beliefs aren’t so strong when it comes to a paycheck

DC are just following the first amendment. If what he is doing is not illegal…he can’t be locked up for it…then you can’t fire a man for expressing his views if it does not affect his work. What a man /woman does in his/her bed room is no business of ours. But you can’t be naive to know if offends many citizens be it their culture or religion. I’m not saying it is right. You have a right to say you hate his opinion and you have a right not to buy the book but you no better ganging up or picking up the pitchforks to shut down a man ‘s bread and butter for saying what he thinks. Instead try to create constructive dialogue. Dialogue is what bridges and creates understanding. Not an eye for an eye. It just draws lines and nothing else.

@ Dirt & Anthony: it doesn’t bother you guys that yours are completely jerky comments for the sake of being jerks? Seriously guys.

Jerry Sandusky and joe paterno scandal would seem to argue the opposite of those saying cards views are wrong. As well as scandals currently engulfing the bbc across the pond.

Peter Morningstar

February 13, 2013 at 8:43 am

Well done Mr Card for having the guts to publicly speak your mind and for having the personal honesty to maintain your principles in this politically ‘incorrect’ world. When a man is prepared to stand by his convictions regardless of possible financial limitations and resulting unpopularity, then he deserves applauding for his honesty. Excellent to see, wish there were a few more people prepared to express themselves accordingly, instead of being cowed by a vocal minority, as we’re seeing here on these boards.
Long live free speech always, and to all those trying to silence it, and any opinion voiced on the grounds of ‘offence’ amd ‘bigotry’ stop being so hypocritical when you yourselves use public platforms and forums to try and turn public opinion, similarly condemning and vilifying, those you yourselves disagree with!

Well MK there is a story in the papers right now about an assistant principle who was fired from a Catholic school for writing in his blog that he supports same sex marraige. So much for not being able to get fired for you beliefs.

Funny thing, that. There is a right to marry whoever you want. It is an ABSOLUTE right. There is no right to be employed. He wants to be a bigot, then he suffers for his opinion. If he wanted to be hired, then he should have kept his big mouth shut and not be so hateful. There’s a difference between having an opinion and acting upon it to deny rights to a group of people. You don’t believe in gay marriage? Good for you. But sit down and shut up about it because it doesn’t affect you. Everyone is so vocal about gun rights (which are not absolute, btw), and not about the absolute rights that matter.
People have their priorities backwards.

PretenderNX01 posted: ” ‘Personal views’ stop being personal when he actively uses them to slander and oppress an entire group of people.”

…and yet as a Catholic i have had slander used against me and my religion from members of the Hollywood, comic book and academnic communities for all my life. Its staggering how misunderstood Catholicism & practicing Catholics are, as well as lied about and hated by haters & bigots.

..and yet, this new crop of haters, who hate Card are using slander and oppression as their means to stop him from working at DC.

this new crop of haters wishes to pick who works and who does not work. Who gets to exist and does not get to exist in the creative corporate communities of this country.

This new crop of haters is no different then the lynch mobs of the south and those who called Catholics “papist spies” in the 19th century and up until 1960.

This new crop of haters is no differnt then those who put up signs in New England in the 19th & 20th centuries: “No Irish, No Blacks, No Dogs”.

…except the current haters’ calling card is “NO CARD, NO CARD, NO CARD” …or else feel their wrath….

new hate is simply old hate……the more things change the more they stay the same.

Peter Morningstar:

Free Speech is not an absolute right. It is curtailed and there are exemptions for it. The right to marry whoever you want, is.

@mk
Well said. And purchasing the book isnt supporting his beliefs, for those idiots who say it is. Its supporting his writing, plain and simple. If you cant distinguish the difference, dont purchase his work and continue bitching all you want. But trying to get him laid off of potential work? You’re just as bad as what youre trying to fight.

This is just plain stupid. What the man believes is his own business. You don’t want the comic don’t buy it!

dark rabbitt:

Slander is where you spread lies about people.

Uhh….where is the lie exactly when Card has been quoted about his opinions?
….that’s what I thought.

and the mobius loop of idiocy continues in the comments. wow…

I will get it from Comixology. If you don’t want to read it, don’t buy it. Pretty simple. Though there are plenty of hard left leaning comics authors that are a few slight shades from Communism I try to give them a benefit of the doubt. Though OSC Ultimate Ironman stuff was hit and miss, what could one issue hurt? Probably not much. Seeing as OSC more than likely been paid for his script, and if they shelve it, well, woooo! Victory, right? Nah, I don’t think so. Nothing will change.

And, of course, everyone speaking out against Card isn’t guilty of the same thing, because he “hates” them. Hate. You guys don’t HATE Card do you? Oh wait, you do. But that’s okay because he hated first, right? Yeah. In fact, that’s kinda what this is really about.

First, I don’t care if they recognize gay marriage. In fact, it’s almost inevitable. I also don’t believe they should be barred from the military. I just don’t believe that it’s genetic. And that, by itself, will be enough to label me a “homophobe” even though I don’t hate these people. I’m just tired of this pageant.

The evidence that homosexuality (or heterosexuality or bisexuality) is genetic seems pretty thin and it’s never really asked for in the debate. We’re just supposed to accept that it’s genetic. By the way, what else is genetic? Attraction to a certain bodytype? A certain ethnicity? Nobody asks, so nobody knows. I’m also not sure how relevant it is because most of the hardcore activists would feel the same way even if the genetic aspect were completely disproven.

But to get to the heart of the matter, genetic or not, the end result is that we’ve got a “minority group” that’s a complete invention of the media–one that comes from stereotypes about the people they’re trying to protect! The rainbow flag? It’s from the stereotype of gay people liking colorful, garish stuff. The Pride Parade? The conflation of gays & lesbians liking BDSM. The term “gay” itself used to be a slang term, and not a friendly one. I’ve also heard they “took back” the word “queer” which is puzzling. How do you “take back” a slur, and what does it accomplish?

Finally, no. This is not the same as being for the KKK. The KKK didn’t just write some columns about how interracial marriage should be illegal, they went around killing people.

I don’t expect hugs & kisses here. Call me whatever you want. I was just thinking about “first they came for the Jews and I didn’t speak out,” because that door swings both ways, and right now, they’re coming for the Mormons.

Just for factual reasons:

Pedophiles are normally, by and large, heterosexual males. They are not homosexual. Ask any doctor or expert. Homosexual men and women are normally consenting adults, or if they are teenagers or preteens, are usually attracted to people of _the same age_. It’s not unheard of for someone exploited and sexually abused to just “happen” to also be gay, but that’s probably rare.

Equating LGBTQ peoples with pedophiles is more than a bit ignorant.

Peter Morningstar

February 13, 2013 at 8:55 am

Oh yes it is Lana.
Because when it isn’t, whoever you are, gay, straight, catholic, jew…that’s when “…there was no one left to speak out for me.” or a means to do it.
ALL opinion has the right to be heard, as does opposition to that opinion, to curtail either is to erode the foundation of any democracy and any society. Democracy and free speech by it’s nature will always offend someone, to use that ‘offence’ as a means of silencing it is not a solution, it’s an even greater problem.

This is not about “personal opinions” or “litmus tests” for comic creators.

Whatever you think about him, his writing, gays, the gay rights movement, any of it, know this: Orson Scott Card is a PROFESSIONAL antigay advocate. He sits on the board of directors of one of the leading antigay advocacy groups. He gets paid to give antigay speeches, and write antigay propaganda pieces.

HATING GAYS IS NOT JUST HIS PERSONAL OPINION, PEOPLE: HE HAS MADE IT HIS JOB.

Sometimes when you take one job it creates a conflict of interest that prevents you from getting certain other jobs. My opinion is that this is one such situation. What does someone who chooses to make a living hating gays know about truth or justice? What does someone who thinks the law should be used to criminalize a group of people he doesn’t like know about “the American way?” What message is DC sending to its readership, particularly its LGBTQ readership, by hiring such a person to write even one issue their flagship brand?

If he was making money by hating on any other demographic group, this wouldn’t even be a question.

i sometimes wonder the unfairness of this so called bigotry and personal views etc. As I observed, it seems like it’s ok to share personal views and be violent and bigot about as long as it is of the liberal’s viewpoint but once it is of the conservative’s viewpoint, it suddenly became offensive.

i for one dont side with either the liberals or the conservatives. both have prejudices. i sided with the human side. free of biases. and yes, i support freedom of expression. i’ve been a big fan of music and i can listen to albums of artists whose political and social views don’t necessarily agree with mine.

Good for DC! I am looking very forward to this series. If I only purchased from artist that aligned 100% with me religiously and politically, I would be a much richer person. Heck, if I was only friends with people who aligned with me 100% religiously and politically, I would be a very lonely person. That is what makes the United States a great country to live in.

Just a quick note to any LCS’s that won’t carry the book – is it possible to not carry the first issue, and just that issue? Card is only doing one story, and that’s in the first issue, everything else in the series should be legit. Or would there be a problem in explaining to future customers why there’s no #1 issue?

And um, sorry – equating yourself with oppressed groups because you don’t agree with homosexuality as a lifestyle is a bit….off. Weird. Not logical?

So were the bigots in the South being oppressed when the Civil Rights Laws were enacted or when they were being criticized? How exactly are your freedoms being removed by ensuring freedoms for other people or criticizing someone who is on a board which actively tries to take away those freedoms (because that’s the thing….it has been mentioned several times, dude doesn’t just express his opinion, he tries to FORCE his views on others with his pocketbook and his influence), is not somehow taking away your right to not think being gay is genetic.

It doesn’t take away your (wrongheaded, IMO) view that gays are a “made up minority.” It just means I can say I think you’re wrong. See? No jackbooted thugs are coming to drag you away.

You can all calm down now. You’re still allowed to not like what gay people do, or whatever the new phrase is this week.

I read Card’s article on Deseret News. I didn’t see any bigotry there. The tone maybe assertive but i’ve read some more hateful articles from liberals lambasting the conservatives. Of course there are also conservative articles that are really hateful and can be considered bigotry but Card’s is not one of them.

DC didn’t bow to the will of an advocacy group? Imagine that. Neither did JCPenney.

These are businesses. They want everyone’s $$$$$$$$! Not just gay, staright, black, white, Venutian….EVERYBODY’S $$$$$.

They arent going to be seen as anything but neutral.

Please note: Many people are tired of ANY advocacy group telling them what NOT to buy, where to NOT shop, what to NOT eat, etc. Its ridiculous.

THe national organization for marriage declares their beliefs very strongly, in an attempt to marginalize something they feel is invalid.

The Boycotters of Orson Scott Card are also declaring their beliefs very strongly, in an attempt to marginalize a movement they feel is invalid

Both have a right to do so, but neither is really in the right. Stamping out hatred or beliefs different from yours doesn’t work it just concentrates it to more extreme forms.

But PLEASE stop relating the Natl Org for Marriage to the KKK or Nazi’s. once you do that, I feel like the argument is already lost.

Written by my son Benjamin. It expresses my point of view but far better written.

“Card is a very gifted writer. He certainly has political beliefs many find reprehensible, and he’s more public about those beliefs than most writers, but they (usually) don’t interfere with his writing. Personally, I think it’s important to separate an artist’s craft from an artist’s beliefs.

Doing otherwise has the potential to stifle creativity, which I don’t think is a good precedent to set. If you think about it (and this works especially well from a Christian point of view, which is where Card’s beliefs originate), everyone sins, or has destructive personality traits, or believes offensive things. But we only get mad at the people who are open about it. The effect is to discourage people from voicing their beliefs. In a free society, that’s not what we want.

We might want to discourage people from having beliefs we disagree with, and that should be done through discussion and dialogue. But we don’t want to discourage people from expressing beliefs we don’t agree with, because then there’s never an opportunity to debate those beliefs.”

And it seems to me DC would not tolerate homophobic views promoted in a Superman comic.

I,m confused.

If I,d been anti-semite,then I would never have bought a comic book in my life.

But.

My Daughter,who is gay,says comic book collecting is “gay”.
So,I guess its middle finger to Mr.Orsons views
But if the book is any good,I,ll give it a go.

politics and hobbies have never mixed very well.

More modern life depression.
RALPH.

Can somebody answer why this wasn’t all over the place when he wrote Iron Man, or why no one seemed to be up in arms about Marvel adapting the Ender and Alvin Maker books?

The solution is simple:

If Orson Scott Card does not like gay people, he should convince all of the heterosexuals in the world to stop having gay babies…

If you don’t like gay marriage, then don’t get gay married…

Oh, and I don’t give a crap whether or not DC hires him to write a comic or not…but, I sure as hell won’t be buying it…I also can see how gay comic fans perceive this as a slap in the face…but, that’s DC’s choice…

Good point, TJ. Marketing and the character. Iron Man is popular, but isn’t close to being the icon Superman is, despite the books being low sellers for a long time now.

BookPimp (@The_BookPimp)

February 13, 2013 at 9:08 am

Card is Free to believe anything he wants. He’s Free to say anything he wants. those are his rights. But the fact that he is a Practicing Bigot by being on the Board of a group who’s sole purpose is to make second class citizens out of a select group of people means that i will be practicing my displeasure at DC’s decision by not spending a dime on anything his name touches.

lot 49 and dave lathrop step on up, you won the absolute knuckle dragging tools of the day. congrats morons!

“Can somebody answer why this wasn’t all over the place when he wrote Iron Man, or why no one seemed to be up in arms about Marvel adapting the Ender and Alvin Maker books?”

Ultimate Iron Man was written/published before Card was a part of NOM. His beliefs were out there, but not as well known to the general public.

i agree with curan, even if hes a grade A hole, he has a right to work. Everyone is free to boycott Superman comics if they feel like it, but to say that just because someone like him writes it the book will convert into a window to bigotry and homophobic is plain wrong. We would be producing our own stuff if we were to boycott every product where a guy like this works.

Even if he tries too i doubt DC will let him cause they have editors and i doubt they want superman to be an example of that.

Fox news?great,now theyll bring politics into this matter
Briliant DC,for choosing one of the worst possible place for giving your reasoning

and all this time I always though DC were liberal while Marvel the conservative one

“i agree with curan, even if hes a grade A hole, he has a right to work. Everyone is free to boycott Superman comics if they feel like it, but to say that just because someone like him writes it the book will convert into a window to bigotry and homophobic is plain wrong. We would be producing our own stuff if we were to boycott every product where a guy like this works.

Even if he tries too i doubt DC will let him cause they have editors and i doubt they want superman to be an example of that.”

I doubt there will be anything objectionable in the issue. My issue is that I don’t want to give money to Card that he might put toward NOM.

I’m usually not a fan of the boycotss for stuff like this but I see where people are coming from this time. It’s like with the Chick Fill-A thing. There is a difference between a guy who has political views I disagree with and someone who is contributing to an activist group. I buy whatever Ditko puts out even though his politics are pretty asinine, but this is a guy who is directly contributing to hate groups so literally the money I’m paying for this book is going to go to those causes.

Hysan

1) Whether or not Orson Scott Card can write a Superman comic has NO impact on whether or not the law recognizes same-sex marriage. You are not working to ensure anyone’s freedoms, but simply raging against him for disagreeing with them.

2) Pretending gays are some sort of “group” can serve as a step in demonizing Mormonism, and in fact all of Christianity, and for that matter, Judaism (lest we forget that the rules against intercourse between two men are established in the Old Testament) and feeling justified in doing so. I didn’t say you’re doing that, but it can happen if we keep looking at the issue so simplistically in this “good vs evil” way.

3) As for whether bigots in the South were oppressed because of the diminution of segregation laws, no. But in this day and age, people CAN be shunned for legitimate racism. And maybe they should be. But when people start calling people racist for speaking out against things which are intended to help racial minorities (affirmative-action, the DREAM Act) then yeah, I’d call that oppression.

4) This, of course, brings us back to Card. He–and everyone else who’s ever said it–has been attacked for saying that a gay man can still marry a woman, and so-forth. “Oh, that’s so offensive…” whatever, it’s the truth. The law doesn’t know whether or not you’re gay, and people who have been married for years “find out” they’re gay quite often for something involved with genetics.

Now, if that’s not good enough for you, fine. Speak out all you want. I’m just saying some of us are gonna do the same thing, some of us think the whole thing is unfair on everyone’s part, and that you’re not ensuring anyone’s rights by boycotting a $3.00 comic book.

These people who are saying “It’s just his opinion” remind me of all of the cognitive dissonance when it comes to the mistreatment of gay people, they get upset when you point out an anti semitatic or racist person wouldn’t be hired, but it’s true.

All these people defending OSC, find me a network just throwing money at Cosmo Kramer? Yeah go ahead, i’ll wait. The fact is NOM is a hate group, they’ve campaigned for more than just marriage, they’ve tried to get gay people banned from jobs like teaching, criminalize homosexuality, and fostered ideas to make a group of people sub human. I don’t care if you FEEL victimized because you’re catholic, or whatever, the fact is you’re NOT a victim, until a majority of people are stripping you of your RIGHTS but that’s not the biggest issue here.

The fact is DC doesn’t see what’s wrong with hiring a noted bigot, someone who has done far more than had an opinion but act out and do terrible things(within the law), but you know what? Kramer didn’t do anything illegal either but he’s lost his career over saying racist as fuck thing. People need to stop projecting their own fears of being called a homophobe by trying to justify OSC and DC’s choice, because you can’t pretend you’re open minded when you say things like like “tolerance is a two way street”

you know why that doesn’t work? Because racism and bigotry goes one way. One group of people get’s the full force of it, and just because YOU don’t equate NOM to as bad as the KKK because they’re not “killing people” doesn’t make them not a horrible group of people. If you think you need to be a murderer to be a clueless asshole, well, you’re a clueless asshole

Braun Rodman:

Which Foucault were you reading? Because I got a very different impression of his works.

Everyone else:

As many people are saying, It’s one thing to have the freedom to self expression. It’s entirely different to serve on the board of an organization that’s just a stone’s throw away from being a recognized hate group.

–md

Keep it up guys, you’re going to have as much success as the Chic-Fil-A protest, and look like petty bullies just like then.

How many writers are pro-choice? You think that doesn’t offend pro-life people? Life > Marriage.

The Natl Org for Marriage cannot be compared to KKK. Ya’ll are getting redic. “Marriage” is a religious term, most people who oppose gay marriage on a religious basis believe it is wrong for them to get married like a christian couple would. It would seem this organization is just trying to protect some shitty christian ideals and I don’t really see that as being the same as lynching minorities. Yes they are dicks, yes it is bigoted, no they are not the KKK, theyre not even the westboro baptists. Don’t be offensive by equating The Natl Org for Marriage to a hate group who throughout history used physical violence. Come off your high horses, recognize that there are people you disagree with and move on by not acknowledging their stupid beliefs. Jeez.

Card believes (wrongly IMO) that homosexuality is a choice. He is against behavior. He doesn’t believe people naturally are homosexual. IMO, that does not make him bigoted, just wrong. Don’t forget that almost half the country and most of the world hold his views.

Seriously, guys. The only ones spreading hatred in here are the ones that scream “Oh no, this guy is bad, he’s homophooobic!”
No, he’s not. You’re the one with a phobia of someone who is different from you.
Get over it.

“How many writers are pro-choice? You think that doesn’t offend pro-life people? Life > Marriage.”

and how many pro lifers have been willing to kill people for their so-called cause, support capitol punishment or carry assault rifles?

To be clear: DC had every right to hire him, and anyone who cares about gay rights has every reason to loudly and publicly boycott this book. Gay rights are advancing across the world — It’s sad that so many Americans seem to want to stand on the wrong-side of history as proud citizens of a rigid, theocratic backwater.

I know I’ll catch flack for this, but I’ve always seen the equation of sexuality with race or gender discrimination as a fallacy. You cannot choose to stop being a minority race or (naturally) choose to stop being a woman, and while the jury is still out on homosexuality as an inherent individual trait, one can choose to not practice homosexuality, even if he or she identifies in that way.

Likewise, in regard to marriage equality, everyone currently has the same right, marriage between man and a woman. I as a heterosexual share that right with those who identity as homosexual.

Now, to clarify, I am a Christian and I do not advocate homosexuality. However, I also do not advocate legislation against gay marriage, as I feel it only engenders more hate towards individuals, rather than the practice itself.

In regard to Orson Scott Card, I couldn’t care less what his views are, as I don’t personally know him. I’ll be reading his story, solely because I love Superman.

Mike Dawson,
You can take your little anti-American comment and stick it. America is at the forefront on gay rights and always has been.

You left out the best part-“Look, let’s face it. We are DC Comics. We are run by Jim Lee and Dan Didio. We suck. We always have, we always will. Our comics stink, we give the keys to the kingdom to hacks, and we (fail to) reinvent ourselves every few years. So leave us alone, okay!”

You realize the gays do get lynched, end up disowned by their parents, and killed all the time right?

And it’s because organizations like NOM feed into the idea that homosexuality is a choice, and then couple it with something religious,. That DOES make him a bigot, Richard. Something doesn’t not become horrible just because you don’t want it to.

Freedom of speech=/= Freedom of responsibility, you can say whatever you want, but if you don’t believe there are consequences for your actions then you’re just being childish. We live in a capitalist society. Where companies choose who they want to work for them and if a company doesn’t wanna hire someone is a racist they don’t because they don’t wanna lose money. FoS protects you from the government, that’s IT, if people call for a boycott or you to resign because you’re an awful fuck, that’s within their rights of Freedom of Speech too, isn’t that convenient? For gay people you can get away with hiring assholes, because you’ll get people like Jake coming up with nonsense rhetoric. A hate group is a hate group. I don’t think you’re suppose to put them on a score board and tally which is worse.

That’s like going “Oh shut up abused housewives at least you’re not digging for blood diamonds”

I remain bemused by the idea that it is perfectly acceptable for Mr. Card to have ‘unpopular or unenlightened or bigoted or whatever adjective you wish to apply’ beliefs, it’s just that he’s actually acting on those beliefs in a manner consistent with his personal values that seems to be upsetting people so much.

I don’t actually feel compelled to get worked up one way or the other about activism of any stripe. I’m not an activist. But… I applaud people who are actually engaging in the discussion of Card’s place (or lack thereof) at DC, I encourage the never-ending debate regarding the issue of same-sex marriage and all its tangents, and I just roll my eyes at people who can’t come up with anything better than hysterics and comparisons to Nazis/KKK, etc.

Belittling and dehumanizing your political opponents (regardless of what side you’re on) is hardly a new tactic, especially when it rapidly slides into ‘they started it!’ language. But I guess it’s still effective (see also: Washington D.C.).

For the people who say that there’s a difference between having personal views vs. active participation in organizations…. what on earth are your beliefs supposed to amount to if they aren’t expressed through some sort of action? … would kind of make your beliefs worthless, yes?

So, if I’m FOR legalizing gay marriage, it’s a-ok if I hold those beliefs and actively promote them, but if I’m only in favor of legal marriage as traditionally understood, it’s ok for me to hold the “opinion” but NOT ok for me to support organizations that promote that view?

Seems like “hate group” could have a pretty broad definition; like, “Anyone who doesn’t believe in the equality of homosexuality and gay marriage with that of heterosexual ones.”

And just so we’re clear: I don’t think there should be state-sponsored marriage at all.

If you don’t like Orson Scott Card or can’t stomach reading a story of his that probably doesn’t even mention his views, don’t buy the book. I regularly avoid authors with opinions I find distasteful or, in my case, anti-Catholic.

Yeah no thanks. I will not be buying anything DC as long as this neanderthal is working for the company. He sets the human race back by decades. Make mine Marvel…and Image…and so on…but NOT DC!

Richard:

I love America. I hate fundamentalist Christian bigots. On the up side, I am incredibly glad not to be in the parts of Africa where homosexuality has been criminalized thanks in part to the work of American religious leaders.

America may have kicksarted the gay rights movement, but we’re quickly being superseded. 12 countries now have legal gay marriage (Argentina, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Iceland, France, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, South Africa, Sweden) . We’re not one them. We’re falling behind because of religious-inspired bigotry and it’s embarrassing and shameful.

USA! USA!

When was the last time anyone actually read “Ender’s Game”? I mean, it’s a really shitty, shitty book, badly written, unfocused, and too in love with its own concept and cleverness. Is it one of those things that’s read as a kid and the nostalgia of it has carried through so you convince yourself it’s still as fun as it was when you were, I don’t know what the age level of it is…10?

And at this stage, I think it’s safe to say Card has visited more bathhouses and gloyholes than people who still buy his new books.

Reginald, you probably don’t know that Orson Scott Card wrote several comic series for Marvel. Doesn’t that make you said?

Some interesting facts:

1) Card can say whatever he wants, and others can say whatever they want about what he says. That’s the way it works. Calling him an idiot for his views is not bigotry, it’s a right. Slander is when you say things about someone that are quantifiably not true.

2) Nobody’s “oppressing” you when they tell you you’re a jerk for not supporting gay rights (or any other position you might hold). Oppression is based on who or what you are, not what opinions you have. You don’t have a right not to be criticized, no matter how morally superior you think you are.

3) “I think that guy’s a jerk, I’m not going to give him my money, and I don’t think you should either” is not oppression, it’s an opinion. If you can’t deal with hearing that, you need to grow a thicker skin. You’re also free to have the opinion that that speaker is himself a jerk, and you can call him one if you want.

4) People are free to spend (or not spend) their discretionary income any way they choose. It’s the only *real* vote we have, voting with your money. If DC drops Card because people don’t want to buy his work because they think he’s a jerk, there’s nothing wrong with that, it’s good business. Conversely, if sales go up for whatever reason (either people like his writings, support his political views, whatever) then he stays. If he starts costing them money, and they keep him despite that, then DC can be criticized for being terrible businesspeople. (Actually, you can criticize them for whatever you want, it’s your opinion to have. Just remember that I can call you a jerk for having that opinion.)

5) Recent polls show that a majority of Americans support marriage equality.

If people don’t share your views, tough sh*t. Being convinced you’re morally right doesn’t mean other people have to agree with you, no matter how zealous your convictions. Their disagreement is not persecution or oppression, they just believe something different than you, as is their right.

Gay people are a thing. Put on your big girl panties and deal with it. Whether it’s a lifestyle choice or a genetic trait, it’s a thing that exists and is not going away, no matter how offensive you find it. I feel the same way about Walmart, but that doesn’t mean they’re going away.

And if wanting gays to be treated as equal human beings both socially and under the law is “the radical homosexual agenda”, call me a radical. It’s not special treatment. I mean, wow, they want to get married and raise children and serve in the military without lying about who they are! How unreasonable can you get!

Mike Dawson,
You are obviously an anti-Christian bigot if you believe people opposing gay marriage is a Christian issue or taught to them by Christians. How is gay rights going in the Middle East right now?

When we attempt to restrict someone’s freedom of speech over what he might write, that called censorship; I find it more abhorrent to censor someone simply because he does not share my political and/or religious views.

OSC has committed no hate crime. He states and supports what he believes. It is in opposition to my vision of an America with marriage equality.

I rarely agree with OSC regarding his political and religious views, but I read his books.

Let him do the work and let’s judge the comics for themselves.

Mike the Library Guy

February 13, 2013 at 10:01 am

Atheist, conservative comic fan for over 40 years here says good for Card. Opposing gay marriage like we do does not make us bigots, just oppose that social notion. Too bad, liberals.

Pass. That’s all.

Richard:

The Muslims are pretty bad on this issue too. That’s fair. I didn’t think fundamentalist Christians usually liked to be lumped in with them, but hey, if the shoe fits, then wear it, right?

Mike: I was going to take up Braun’s reading of Foucault–it sounded like a regurgitated version of a conservative professor’s attempt to appropriate (deconstruct, in the post-structuralist sense) Foucault to show the “gay agenda” up. Yup, nothing like quoting a gay French Academic, who once threw books at riot police and later died of AIDS, to shore up your position against equal marriage rights and benefits. No irony here. None.

Richard:

To be clear and much less sarcastic, I know of no one who objects to homosexuality on any other grounds than their religion. I’m against hate, not religion. it’s just sad that many people seem to use one to justify the other.

Wow, Redacted, that’s absolutely the opposite of what I’ve been posting. Card can write all the comics he wants.

I just am also allowed to choose not to read them. And I stopped reading things by him because I didn’t like his writing, a LOOOOONG time before I knew his views.

The same way I started thinking David Mamet’s writing was not as good as it was back during his Glengarry Glen Ross days…and then I find out he’s swung to hardcore right views. It was more of a “huh…weird how that works” than a OMG ARGLE BARGLE WILL NEVER READ THAT ##$%# EVAR.

OSC will be a successful writer regardless of what my opinion is. If other people choose to boycott him, he’ll still be one. The connection people keep making between this boycott and some sort of “AH! See, you’re bigots, too!” analogy is a bit weak and more than a bit disingenuous. I will agree that some people who are pro-gay like myself have made some really terrible analogies and engaged in namecalling, but that’s about it.

There is no “liberal agenda.” There is no “anti-Christian” bigotry, except maybe among Christians themselves when they have in-fighting, or perhaps among atheists. And um, America has more than one religion…that’s kind of the point of freedom of religion. You have the right to worship how you wish, or not at all.

Not being for one thing doesn’t automatically make you a bigot, either. You can be “not for” gay marriage, but also be not for government interference with marriage, as some posters are. There are some people who aren’t particularly anti-gay but don’t really want to oppress anyone.

I’m just not one of them. I believe everyone should have the same rights. Period.

Seems like something Kal-El would believe too, eh?

Mike Dawson,
The fact that you at first solely blame Christians, and then grudgingly include Muslims, shows you are an anti-religious bigot. There is opposition to gay marriage throughout the globes. Gay rights are bad in Asia, the Middle East and Africa (and not just because Christians “taught” them to hate gays, do you really think Africans are that feeble-minded?).

The bigots will continue to cry “freedom of speech!” to try and silence anyone who criticizes DC for employing a man who fights for classifying homosexuals as second-class citizens.

Bigots are not big on irony or self-reflection.

ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN #1
Written by ORSON SCOTT CARD, AARON JOHNSTON and JEFF PARKER
Art by CHRIS SPROUSE, KARL STORY and CHRIS SAMNEE
Cover by BRYAN HITCH
1:25 Variant cover by CHRIS SAMNEE
On sale MAY 29 • 40 pg, FC, $3.99 US • RATED T • DIGITAL FIRST

I see 6 other comic creators listed here. Are they guilty by association? OK, possibley Aaron Johston as he is CO-Writing the story with Card and Sprouse and Story are drawing it. So, are we to assume they share the same beliefs as their co-worker/collaborator? And what of Parker and Samnee? Should we take food from their mouths for having their story published in the same issue? Of course, I assume if they don’t demand that their work be pulled from the issue because of Cards inclusion then it must mean they agree with him.

Way to be completely spineless, DC. Keep hogging those pink dollars you court while symbolically kicking the gay community in the face.

The most disappointing thing to come out of all of this isn’t even DC’s response. They’re soulless corporate shills – of course they’re going to be as wishy-washy as possible. It’s the response of all the supposedly sane, normal folks in threads like these who have no financial stake at all, but zealously defend Card anyway.

They say they don’t hate gay people or think Card’s right (FSM forbid!), but actively prioritise his free speech and civil rights over that of the people protesting him. Because gays’ and their allies’ right to free speech or exercise their financial power isn’t as important as Card’s right to never, ever face consequences for his downright dangerous actions.

They downplay Card’s actions, spouting off about “thought crime” and “personal opinions”, as if actively working towards denying an oppressed minority the same rights as everyone else is nothing but a thought. As if his involvement in an hate-group that slanders gay people as paedophiles, actively seeks to remove anti-discrimination laws from the books, and has worked with homophobic groups to institute the goddamn death penalty for gay people in Uganda, is a mere personal opinion.

They accuse the minority group directly affected by NOM and Card’s actions of whining, making a big deal out of nothing, or even anti-rights. Because speaking out against their own oppression makes them the bullies and calling someone else a bigot is infinitely worse than having to deal with the bigotry of others.

And the worst is that even as they practice staggering amounts of cognitive dissonance, utterly fail to understand the concepts of free speech or economic boycotts, and callously champion a man like Card over those rights he has trampled, they’re utterly convinced that they’re being the reasonable ones.

Do so many people subconsciously still see gay people and gay rights as so unimportant that they’re willing to twist themselves into rhetorical knots turning Card into the victim and the protesters into the big, bad wolves?

It honestly saddens me that so many “enlightened” people think so little of us, and I really thought I was immune to this kind of disappointment.

Richard:

I don’t think I’m allowed to provide links here, but do a tiny amount of research and you’ll see the role various American religious organizations played in the “uganda kill the gays bill.” To be fair, several other religious organizations came out against this legislation. Overwhelmingly though, resistance to homosexuality is rooted in religious beliefs and the illogical defense that “giving gays rights takes away my right to inflict my beliefs on others.”

Also, “Africans are … feeble-minded” came out of your mouth, not mine. Many parts of Africa were doing a great job of hating and legislating against gays without any outside assistance.

Do i think any religion that sponsors hateful acts is bad: Yes. Does that mean I am “an anti-religious bigot?” Not so much.

Anyway, I’m not going to change your mind, so I’m going to stop arguing.

It’s ok to be bigoted against bigots.

It’s ok to be intolerant towards the intolerant.

It’s ok to protect the speech of some at the expense of the speech of the others.

It’s ok to gain freedom for some by denying freedom for others.

That’s basically what passes for deep thought and political philosophy in today’s society. What an enlightened and cultured age we live in.

While I don’t agree with Mr. Card’s position on same-sex marriage, I enjoy his writing. While his endorsement of the overthrow of the government at the end of the essay above (an opportunity that he is afforded every four years BTW), it is not because he is attempting to destroy something rather it is because he is advocating protecting something he values.

While I don’t know where the increased animosity towards those that disagree with us began (I’ve heard the blame placed with the Clinton machine, Newt Gingrich and ’94 republican revolution, the coinciding rise of ignorance and the internet, as well as the social revolutionaries of the Baby Boom generation), but let’s stop the hate and let’s begin by not labeling those that disagree with us. You are not immediately a homophobe if you believe marriage is meant to be between a man and a woman only.

While Mr. Card believes (believed?) that homosexuality is a “tragic genetic mixup” and is unable to see God’s plan in that does not immediately make him a homophobe, nor does it make him a hate monger.

Let’s read Mr. Card’s Superman story before we dismiss it.

OSC is a disgusting, homophobic freak. I am glad Zeus is boycotting this comic. DC is being ridiculous. They shouldn’t support that hateful bigot.

I love OSC as a writer. I don’t share his position on marriage. I don’t intend to boycott him, because that would be a primitive, egocentric action on my part: to lash out at someone who is different from me. If we’re going to change things, we need to demonstrate the behaviour we want to see from others: tolerance and acceptance.

Guy dismisses people’s equality, I’ll dismiss his book.

Mr. Card is entitled to his beliefs, just as I am entitled to mine. And I believe I will not be purchasing anything that contributes to a hateful bigot like Mr.Card. Maybe this way DC, Marvel and others will be less likely to hire him.

So at DC, dollars won out over sense. HUGE surprise. Of course, they probably also realized that, given current Superman sell-through numbers, great heaping gobs of people weren’t buying Superman anyway, so people who weren’t going to buy Superman without Card are *really* not going to buy Superman with him so what have they lost? Nothing. Not to mention that none of the online petitions against Card have resulted in anything actually happening to Card. Look it up in Google. There have been several in the last 5 years, none of which have worked. Given the overall failure record of this particular tactic against Card specifically, DC probably saw they had very little to lose if they didn’t respond favorably to it. Nor will this petition overturn DOMA, overturn Prop 8, or put it on the ballot in every state it’s not currently legal. It won’t bankrupt Card, won’t mollify him (probably will embolden him), won’t bankrupt DC, and won’t have changed the legal status of homosexuals in this country in any way the moment it’s over. It’s as close to internet masturbation as you can get – it makes you feel better, but really accomplishes nothing beyond that.

People need to learn to pick their battles. Pick fights you can win, where the stakes are worth the risk. There are no stakes here. This isn’t Stonewall 2 and will have no impact greater than ONE PERSON (unless you count the other creators working with Card whose work would not be seen),. If nothing else, it will show the people who started that petition that DC Comics isn’t nor have they ever been answerable to their fans about anything. They are answerable to their shareholders and until Card dies, he will still end up on the New York Times Bestseller List and that is all they care about. And antagonizing people who don’t agree with you into acting against your best interests is STUPID. Fight smart or don’t bother.

Just a note to clear up confusion, I am not drawing this Superman story, and never was. I find Card’s activism against the love and happiness of gay people to be odious, and I was sad to see my name attached to this story. I suppose as a “Republican”, I’ll find lots to disagree with some of you about.

But not this. Keep fighting and I’m with you.

EVS

What’s funny about all this is that this comic will probably sell through the roof now that it is getting all this attention. Card is an excellent writer and if he writes a good story, I don’t care what his beliefs are. I can’t stand half of the personal beliefs of actors in hollywood. If they make a good product, I’ll watch/read it.

Everyone needs to get off their high horse and stop acting like this is some major affront by DC. Card is entitled to his beliefs. No one forces you to buy his books. DC has hired Satan worshippers in the past, people who cimmitted crimes….but no one complained then. As soon as you bring “gay rights” into the issue, everyone has a hissy fit. There are just way too many bigger issues out there for me to care about right now.

Keep the debate going. Get it on the news. And watch this comic be in the top-10 the week it comes out. Especially with the digital sales.

In 2008, one day before the 2008 presidential election in the United States, Card wrote an opinion piece in which he (while being a Democrat[27][28]) encouraged voters to support the Republican John McCain, stating that he wished he could have supported Barack Obama.[29] He supported Newt Gingrich in the 2012 U.S. presidential election, writing that “despite [Gingrich's] negatives, there is nobody smarter or more capable or with a better record of good government seeking the office of President right now.”[30]

Whoa.

Everybody needs to cool out for a minute.

In all reality, Mr. Card probably wrote this story months ago, and was already paid. Months ago. And I don’t know what kind of work-for-hire contract he might be signed on with, but I seriously doubt that he’s getting any more money for this issue. I would wager it was a flat fee. I would think its unlikely that he’s receiving royalties. But I’m not privy to the inner workings of DC. Just throwing it out there.

DC obviously hired Card because they want to increase readership by courting the sci-fi/fantasy audience to whom Card is a name-value author.
Some of his personal views are, quite frankly, abhorrent, to me, but as long as they aren’t presented in his work as being the character’s (Superman’s) opinions, they really don’t matter in my decision to buy any DC Comic written by Card.

Funny, I didn’t see a drop-off in sales of Frank Miller’s books (or movies like Sin City) after his ranting during the Occupy protests or the World War II-level racism of Holy Terror (which sold pretty well).
How many of you will boycott Sin City 2 or the 300 prequel because of Miller’s views?

“How many of you will boycott Sin City 2 or the 300 prequel because of Miller’s views?”

i will and i have no problem doing so. partially because the works both of these are based on are abysmal, but he’s done himself no favours with his recent conversion into scapegoating asshole…

On Frank Miller: Yeah, I’m not going to see Sin City 2, but mainly because I hated Sin City ONE.

And 300 was also terrible, as was The Spirit. I actually think his views are silly and unenlightened, but he had the same views when I enjoyed his work during his Daredevil days.

I don’t buy his stuff because it’s well…not very good.

if you don’t like gay marriage, don’t marry a gay person.

All this free press and DC didn’t have to buy one bit of it.

As the incomparable Jay Sherman once exhorted:

“If you stop GOING to bad movies, they’ll stop MAKING bad movies…..People, it’s up to you: if the movie stinks, JUST–DON’T–GO!”

Translation to the lot of you: if you stop BUYING bad comic books, they’ll stop MAKING bad comic books…People, it’s up to you: if the comic book stinks, JUST–DON’T–READ–IT!!

Anyone who says sexual orientation is a choice is an idiot. End of story.

Thanks, Ethan van Sciver. I hope that most conservatives feel the same way you do, but I kinda doubt it.

“…the man is actively trying to destroy the right to exist of an entire group of people!”

He’s calling for death camps?

(On an aside, there’s way too many “Adams” posting here.)

Great to hear from you, Ethan and thanks for the support!

Don’t be so quick to dismiss conservatives, Adam. My family is very conservative and they all accept me.

Having said that, I think we need some reminders of OSC’s comments:

“Laws against homosexual behavior should remain on the books, not to be indiscriminately enforced against anyone who happens to be caught violating them, but to be used when necessary to send a clear message that those who flagrantly violate society’s regulation of sexual behavior cannot be permitted to remain as acceptable, equal citizens within that society.

The goal of the policy is not to put homosexuals in jail. The goal is to discourage people from engaging in homosexual practices in the first place, and, when they nevertheless proceed in their homosexual behavior, to encourage them to do so discreetly, so as not to shake the confidence of the community in the policy’s ability to provide rules for safe, stable, dependable marriage and family relationships.”

Again, if he was just a writer who made the above comments, fine, whatever. He’s allowed his own opinions. BUT being a board member of an organization whose sole purpose is to deny equal rights to a segment of the population, that puts him in the public arena and makes him the subject of ridicule and dismissal.

Gays dont own the comic industry. Anymore than Christians, Jews, Hindus, or overweight albino Venutians can lay claim to sole ownership. Sorry to inform anyone believing this to be so….but all these sub-groups form one buying audience. Otherwise, DC would simply offer their products at Gay and Lesbian speciality shops. DC and Marvel target all demographics. This even includes **gasp** children….who dont care about any of this CRAP that grown ups sit around and screech about from daylight to dark.

If DC or Marvel had to rely solely on one sub-groups’ dollars: they would be out of business.

They are going after everyone’s money. That means every group is going to have to “tolerate” one another if they want the medium to survive. Believe it or not, people from all walks of life enjoy eating, watching movies, and reading funny books.

But here’s the thing: Tolerance is no longer acceptible. Now it’s embrace someone else’s idea/religion/philosophy…. or get labeled.

Isnt that what the groups you call hate groups do?

I am gonna buy what I want, eat what I want, wear what I want…. and if I have a question about morals or spirituality—I will find that where I want.

I owned a comic store for years before I retired from it. I needed all the money I could get. I had Catholics, Protestants, Atehists, Agnostics, Whites, Blacks, Asians, Gays, Straights, Unknowns, fat, skiny, ugly, attractive, educated, uneducated, etc. I let them all spend as much money as they wanted.

This is all DC and Marvel care about. They arent going to shape society for you or alienate anyone contributing to the flow of CASH. If you think otherwise—you live in fantasy land.

Adam, but not the above Adam

February 13, 2013 at 12:34 pm

I dunno–you’d have to ask him.

I must say, though, you’re throwing around a lot of derogatory terms for various groups in your last few posts. Free speech and all, so I don’t personally care–but given the powderkeg of emotions here, somebody–probably a moderator–is going to call you on it.

Can somebody tell clueless Michl Hartney and his supporters that a boycott is an action? The last thing the world needs is for every community to adopt its own bigoted agenda as a reply to the perceived bigoted agenda of others. I’m an atheist but sometimes I wished more people would live by the golden rule as it’s simply a good way to live no matter your religion (it isn’t a Christian creation either).

I love the “love the hater” speeches: I would love to see you love the person who refuses to recognize your marriage (which is the sharing of assets, securing of property rights, etc.). How can you “set the example” you want in the world when the world wants to stone you to death?

I made a post about this topic to the effect that if someone wants to out themselves politically (or any thing really), then they should be prepared for consequences (there always are). For instance, a few posts back, Ethan van Sciver (I presume it is him) posted–outed himself as a Republican–and has before. I haven’t “boycotted” him, but when I know I may seriously disagree with someone I might make a choice to not buy something with their name on it–even if I really like their art work (yes, Ethan, I do).

I love Tony Harris’s work, but due to some comments I read of his recently, I decided not to buy his JSA series. Democracy is grand.

Yeah, I kinda figure these posts will be deleted. C’est la vie. I guess I just figured in an argument about free speech we might as well print the terms a lot of people are saying in private–let’s be honest.

Richard – “Keep it up guys, you’re going to have as much success as the Chic-Fil-A protest, and look like petty bullies just like then”

The Chic-fil-A protests were successful, just FYI

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/sep/19/business/la-fi-chick-fil-a-gay-20120920

And homophobia IS bigotry, and while OCS is well within his rights to spew whatever hateful opnions he has, and I defend his right to do so without question, society has very right to stand up and point out how backwards such opinions are and how in 50 years they will viewed just as attempts to block inter-racial is viewed today.

And I am a actively practicing Catholic, so this is in no way anti-religious.

Joey—what Chick-Fil-A did there is what DC is doing here. They are a business. They want everyone’s moolah. They cannot afford to be seen as someone who will discriminate against any group. Gay people eat chicken too. Unless they are vegan.

Gay people arent the only ones who read comics. I read funny books. I have loved superheroes before I even knew about the birds and the bees. I dont like discrimination….but I also dont like people trying to program me to think the way THEY wish me to either. I will watch the circus with interest—but nobody is going to dictate to me what to do, support, eat or whatever. Chick-Fil-A did what they did to show that they have different views—but arent seeking to alienate anyone. Because alienation equals less money. Thats the bottom line.

sadly the only way dc will give in and drop card is if he decides to have super man share his views for as their statement says the opinions of who they hire is not always the companies . though if more retailers refuse to buy the issue with card on it then maybe they will start rethinking about having card on board at least dc is not letting him near any of their gay characters

Nice one Orson Keep up the good work. Best of luck at DC
cheers
anj2099

Foster Reach
February 13, 2013 at 12:03 pm

Anyone who says sexual orientation is a choice is an idiot. End of story.

The facts cited in this post have caused me to change my position on the issue. Way to be.

HOW DARE THEY EMPLOY SOMEONE WHO HAS DIFFERENT IDEALS AND BELIEFS.

If he worked for the KKK, i wouldn’t care…he is NOT going to change Superman into a homophobe…even though that would make incredibly AWESOME and OFFENSIVE storytelling.

Deal with it. Pick and chose your battles better.

I’m just wondering how many of the 8,000 people who singed it were on board to buy this series in the first place? I’d be shocked if DC really lost 8,000 sales.

I will let my wallet do the talking for me. I’m not purchasing anything written by Orson Scott Card. I won’t support bigotry and homophobia.

My take home message from this thread:

Ethan Van Sciver is an awesome person in addition to being an amazing artist.

I’ll read it. Heck, I may even enjoy it. But I’m not paying one red cent for it.

Joey: I am not so sure I believe that Los Angeles Times link about Chick-Fil-A changing their stance.

On Chick-Fil-A’s Appreciation day Facebook page: Huckabee said the following ( after the times and other stories started showing up):

“I talked earlier today personally with Dan Cathy, CEO of Chick Fil-A about the new reports that Chick Fil-A had capitulated to demands of the supporters of same sex marriage. This is not true. The company continues to focus on the fair treatment of all of its customers and employees, but to end confusion gave me this statement:

“There continues to be erroneous implications in the media that Chick-fil-A changed our practices and priorities in order to obtain permission for a new restaurant in Chicago. That is incorrect. Chick-fil-A made no such concessions, and we remain true to who we are and who we have been.”

Take from that what you will. Their chicken is still delicious.

If the Superman book is good: I will buy it. If it sucks—I won’t. I bought Wonder Woman when Phil Jimenez drew it. I didnt boycott it because he was homosexual. He draws pretty pictures. I would think Mr. Jiminez is probably active in causes I dont care for. But I could care less. I am not biuying his books for his political or social causes. I am buying them because he is George Perez 2.0.

If the Orson Card thing is good: It will sell. Thats the way it goes. If you pick it up and the first page has Superman incenerating gays with his heat vision, while attacking the offices of “Advocate” magazine—then all those opposed to DC hiring him can say “see, we told you so.” Until then, ratchet it down a notch. Sometimes i wonder if I am coming to a comic book news board or something completely different.

Yeah I’ll take ABC News, NBC, News, The LA Times, The New York Times and numerous other reputable news organizations that are not biased when it comes that particular story as opposed to Huckabee who took a vested interest in the story, so much so that he organized events around it. And back to original story, again if it were simply his opinion about homosexuality it would be one thing, but OCS has made a second career out of being an anti-LBGT activist, and supporting THAT is what I, and most of the other here I would venture, take issue with.

Another dick move by DC. Is there a shortage of writers that Superman appeals to?? I remember when DC was the ‘Tiffany’ comic book company, with a bit of class.
I certainly won’t be supporting this effort, and will be reviewing my other DC purchases over the next few months.
So many things seem wrong with this company over the last six months. As a huge fan of almost fifty years, it’s rather disheartening…

Good on ya, DC. I’d be buying this, because it sounds like the kinds of superhero stories I’ve been missing for far too many years. With this backlash against someone just because of their political views, I’m definitely buying it to offset some of the intolerant children in the crowd. He’s allowed to have political views, but if he dare’s act on those views, the guy’s an evil bigot? If you don’t act on your beliefs then what’s the point in having them? I hear far more hatred out of people on here (including one of the site’s writers) than I’ve heard from Card. Disagreement is not hate. Angrily calling people names and trying to hurt them is.

Sigh -I’m torn on this. As with the Chik-Fil-A situation I will simply choose not to get the book, even though I wouldn’t have anyway, but I don’t think it’s fair to say the guy can’t work for DC any more than the multitudes of people throughout history and even today that say I cannot work somewhere because I am gay.

Teaching people to keep their bigoted beliefs a secret does nothing to open their mind to education and overcome their ignorance. I’ve lived most of my life in West Texas so I grew up with the anti-gay religious hate teachings and I’ve seen people slowly learn otherwise. None of history’s past ignorant bigotry changed overnight and this will not either. So while I sympithize with the disgust this guy causes people, in his mind he is not the bad guy. Attacking him just makes him feel that more righteous. Change is happening slowly, but people really shouldn’t expect everyone to just wake up and say “gay is okay”… especially not people in the bible belt.

My cousin is married to a man who, after NY passed the same-sex marriage law, said that all gay people should be put on an island to die of AIDS. His wife and other family members immediately chastised him. I will not speak to him or even look him in the face, but I cannot fault my cousin for loving him because in every other way he appears to be a great husband and father.

BMW said “I hear far more hatred out of people on here (including one of the site’s writers) than I’ve heard from Card. Disagreement is not hate.”

When you have people that don’t even know you calling you an abomination and trying to deny you the basic right of pursuit of happiness just because you are different than them, it’s hard to not take that personally. When you feel that gay people cannot get married because you personally don’t believe it’s right… that’s one thing. When you actively lobby against same sex marriage, that’s quite another. There is no valid reason to deny same-sex marriage except for religious beliefs… and there is supposed to be a separation of church and state.

That being said, I agree that some people are over-reacting. Threatening to boycott all DC for this is too much.

Good for DC for standing up to the rainbow mafia. As a libertarian I’m as live and let live as you can get, if gays wanna get married, I’m fine with it. But if you can’t read something by a talented and legendary sci fi writer because he has a different political view than you you’re a close minded tool.

Puny petition.

Never mind all the petition nonsense. You want DC to drop him?

Don’t buy the book.

DC understands money and only money.

The man has every right to his opinion. You can’t dictate how people feel and it’s stupid that things have gotten to this point. Everyone doesn’t have to share your opinion. Good for DC for standing behind their decision.

I don’t know why people assume conservative equals hateful or liberal equals overly sensitive/crybaby.

Liberals don’t have some sort of monopoly on compassion. I know so many conservatives who work hard AND volunteer their time and money for worthy causes. It’s part of that “small government” credo: they really believe it’s up to us and our neighbors to help each other. I wish more people felt that way.

Unfortunately, they don’t…which is why I’m all for the government stepping in to protect people who can’t protect or take care of themselves. Because the government works for us.

My last thought on OSC…I think he will emerge from this unscathed. I don’t know why, I just do.

Wait… for a long time, the homosexual community has asked the world to learn to be tolerant of its point of view. At what point did it conclude intolerance was acceptable? AS Card clearly comes to his beliefs as a result of his religious convictions. If these petitioners have any convictions, they should exercise them in the decision not to purchase the comic book he’s writing and allow the rest of us the freedom to choose how we spend our own money.

There is way too much emerging and established talent out there to justify a bigot with “free expression”.

Here’s my free expression – not a single dime for you DC or your affiliates from me or anyone I know.

The problem for DC, I imagine, is the signed contract. I doubt the company wants to pay him without getting any product. The problem is going to be further exacerbated if sales are diminished because of the issue. It’ll get worse if a boycott of DC Comics develops over this.

“Yeah I’ll take ABC News, NBC, News, The LA Times, The New York Times and numerous other reputable news organizations that are not biased when it comes that particular story”. This is just a funny sentence. NYTimes not biased? Have you even read it?

I will support cards book, cause im tired of the gay bullies out there forcing their views and opinions on main stream americans. gays are showing bigotry intolerance and close to a hate crime and lets not forget there still is no proof that they are born gay and they will never ever prove it

Sure, comics fans are in favor of the right to love and marry whomever you want…but I don’t recall any overwhelming support for Ultimate Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch’s relationship. My recollection was a lot of “ewwwwwwwwwwwww” on these boards.

Just gonna say, freedom of speech goes both ways.

Don’t have to like it (and in his personal views I don’t, BUT)

Deal with it..

Welcome to the U.S.A.

Gideon, If you think being gay is a choice… take just a minute and choose to be gay. Make a conscious choice of who you are attracted to. You don’t even have to act on it… just choose to look at a guy and honestly think he’s hot.

It doesn’t work that way. The only choice involved is accepting ourselves for who we are and who we are attracted to and not letting others dictate who we should love.

If this story proves anything its that liberals love freespeech unless you don’t agree with them.

Not a fan of Card? Don’t buy his books. Its not like your unduly taxed to support something you don’t believe in.

Ger,
Nor should you dictate how others spend their money.

I’ll buy as many copies as I can…all in an effort to squash the Gaygendist Bullies. It cracks me up that today every liberal cause is now a “Right”.

Gay marriage is a “right”
Abortion is “right”…(BTW, 40 million babies exterminated in the USA since Roe v. Wade…way to support their rights).
Contraception is a “right”
Etc, etc.

Just remember, statistically the number of homosexuals in the USA is perhaps 3%. Look it up. The number of Christians, Jews, HIndus, etc. who believe marriage is between a man and a woman is staggeringly more than that. Does it suck to have your feelngs hurt, sure. But deal with it.

Don’t be bullied by the Gaygendists! They try to equate their lifestyle choice/sexual preference to real suffering of African-American slaves in the US. How dare you!

People of reason…stand up! Stand your ground don’t be bullied.

I am firmly in support of gay marriage, let me say that off the bat. I am also not currently reading DC for the most part due to new 52, so I won’t be buying Adventures of Superman regardless of the writer.

But here’s the thing: it’s the easiest thing in the world to advocate for freedom of speech if it’s an opinion you agree with. The true litmus test of freedom of speech is if you’re willing to fight for the someone’s right to say something you find reprehensible.

I respect people’s decision not to buy anything Card writes. In fact, voting with your wallet is a language that comic companies understand. That said, I would recommend against trying to organize a boycott. Look at what happened when One Million Moms went after Life with Archie for showing a gay marriage. What makes people think that publicly protesting a book Card writes won’t have the same positive effect on sales? Now, people have the right to publicly organize a boycott; just be aware you may get the opposite outcome desired.

The wild card is of course the story itself. The only thing I’m aware of of the plot so far is that it more than likely involves Superman somehow, given that it’s in Adventures of Superman. If the book trashes Maggie Sawyer, then that’s a problem. But the story could simply be a slugfest against the Galactic Golem. That doesn’t mean you should buy it necessarily, but at this point we don’t know what opinions are expressed in the book.

A final point: I am also firmly opposed to the NRA. Charlton Heston was a key figure in the NRA. I still like him in Planet of the Apes and the Omega Man. If you can’t get past Card’s activism, that’s a fair call. But the story might have nothing to do with what you hate about him.

I am done with DC, dropping the 8 monthlies from my pull list. They won’t be getting anymore of my money. Good thing Marvel Now is happening, more money to try out some of their other titles. I also write an amateurish Previews review for my lcs and I won’t discuss DC at all. I am sure I only have one or two readers, lol, but I love writing it, and some of my guesses for the future of books or the industry. DC is temporarily dead to me. I wouldn’t be lying if I said this is gonna be a “This going to hurt me more than it hurts you,” which is true for several books, and some launches coming up, but at the end of the day I can’t support that company.

alan scotts butt

February 13, 2013 at 6:20 pm

I challenge DC to hire Orson to write an ALAN SCOTT earth2 issue….. lets see the writer be objective with that characters new take.

If Card writes a Superman comic that preaches bigotry, then I too would boycott his book and petition DC for his removal. But the reason that I don’t buy the book is that I don’t like his writing. I don’t buy Kanye West albums because I think that he’s an ass. I still watch Mel Gibson movies because even though he’s an anti-Semite, the guy was in a lot of great movies. I am sure that any piece of electronic equipment that I own was probably built by a child in a sweatshop. Shell kills people, but I still buy gasoline.
There are many people and companies with whom I disagree, but buying their product does not mean that I give their views any credence. Not every purchase has to be a political decision. You shouldn’t have to worry about the radio station that you listen to, or where you buy groceries, or which bank you belong to. Instead, have a discussion. do something positive to promote your own views. But sometimes, you just want to watch Braveheart.

Card certainly has a right to his beliefs, no matter how wrong or misguided I happen to find them. It’s when people take those beliefs and try to enforce it on others where they have no business being involved that I take issue. if two people of the same sex decide to marry it has the same affect on my marriage as any other…not a thing. Apparently people get married all day, every day and there isn’t any Spider-Sense or disturbance in the force that I can detect in my marriage, so I fail to see why so many people care about a legal contract between two adults that doesn’t involve them. Marriage ceased to be a strictly religious event a long time ago when it became government sanctioned with tax and inheritance laws attatched to it, and performed by anyone from judges, to sea captains, to Elvis impersonators… By the same token, ONLY my wife and I can “defend” our marriage, and what goes on in our marriage only affects ourselves and our son, so I feel no need for DOMA or NOM telling anyone what their marraiage should be and what is and isn’t allowed. Seems like a LOT of money being spent to prevent some decent people from having basic rights. What goes on in their bedroom between consenting adults is none of my business, which goes for my straight friends as well as my gay ones, and no matter if they are married or not these people are still going to be gay, and in a relationship, and why wouldn’t I wish them the same happiness my wife and I have? If that happiness means they wish to have a ceremony in front of friends and family and have their relationship recognized in the eyes of the law then by all means bless them both. If someone is dead set aginst their wedding…fine…don’t attend, if a church does not wish to allow same sex marriages in their building I don’t think they should be forced to (and why would anyone WANT to get married in a building they weren’t welcome in anyway?) but to stand in their way and say they don’t wish these people to have the same rights is forcing their religious beliefs onto others and that just isn’t right. I keep hearing about the gay agends and must say I have yet t see recruitng drives. No one has gone door to door in my neighborhood like flamboyant Jehovah’s Witnesses trying to ask me if I’ve accepted penis into my life, all I’ve seen are good people who wish to be treated like any other…and occasionally act like a freak at the Folsom Street Fair which is pretty EASY not to go to if, like me, you really aren’t into that scene.

That being said, as a store owner I don’t see myself ordering this book. I have heard my customers talking and with quite a few homosexuals among my regulars who, for obvious reasons, take this issue very personally It’s a call we may have to weigh heavier in some stores than others, just like some stores boycotted Astonishing X-Men and Life With Archie’s gay weddings while others embraced it heavier because of the issues they contained.

For all the straight people on here who think homosexuality is a choice and is not genetic please –
try to have gay sex.

What I find annoying are people who say, “you’re just giving him free press by making this a big issue/boycotting the book/expressing dissent, just be silent and ignore him, he’ll go away.”

Well… Actually… This conversation is entirely the point. The boycott isn’t the point. Getting Card fired is not the point. This is the point: Things don’t change or progress unless people talk and express their viewpoints. Silence makes it seem like we’re okay with this happening. We’re not okay, and the only way to avoid this happening again is to rouse some rabble.

If you’re saying his Card’s views shouldn’t matter here, just realize you can only say that because you’re straight. When you see that a company actively supports and gives money to people who hate you and want to deny you freedoms, it’s a lot harder for you to say it doesn’t matter.

Gideon: You’re an idiot. If you think being gay is a choice, then try being gay and see what happens.

Again where was the out rage when Marvel hired him to write Ultimate IronMan??? The Gay community has already won the publics opinion. Just give it a few more years of your dominance of media, education, and politics and you can do whatever to justify your lifestyle.

I’m not the biggest fan of Superman, and even less of Card(I’ve found his books rather boring ever since I was a kid), but the man has a right to believe what he wants, he wants to spend all night sitting in his garage and twiddling his thumbs muttering “I don’t like the buttsex” thats his opinion. And we live in a nation where he can also gather together with others who feel the same, and yes, even spend money to try enforce their will on others who don’t share their beliefs(because thats what it is. Imagine if a gay senator tried to pass a bill outlawing interracial marriage for any reason other anti-marriage bills have been touted, religion, societal views, take your pick). Simply don’t give him your money for it, cause DC will still be paying him even if the comic bombs, so if there’s any loss it’s theirs.

Meanwhile, I see that cartoon #379 at “The Gutters” has gone pretty “hateful” on Catholics, and on Ash Wednesday of all days. Should Catholics launch a boycott of The Gutters and anyone who supports it, swearing that they shouldn’t get “one dime” from them ever, or should they voice their protests in the comments and otherwise enjoy the comic strip?

Seriously, if the standard is “A group that feels slighted by another group should swear to permanently disenfranchise their opponent,” do you object when somebody wants to boycott something you like?

You decide!

This is inane. You act as if he raped someone. Do you boycott actual rapist? Did you stop watching Roman Polanski movies due to his actually raping a thirteen year old girl? You act as if Orson Scott Card murdered someone; whereas many of you voted for a president last November who murdered a sixteen year old boy in a drone strike he authorized. That fact did not even prevent me from reading Dreams of My Father. Just as I read Che Guevara’s work even though he was a monster, and I read the works of Celine even though he was pretty much a Nazi. If you only read the works of people that you agree with you become insulated, and you become ignorant.

I disagree with OSC on more than I agree with him on. To me, you are free to define your life however you wish. You want to bend marriage to your preferences. That is up to you. No one dies but you when you die. It is entirely up to you how you should live. OSC believes quite differently than I do. He believes gay marriage undermines social institutions. Perhaps it does. I really don’t care if they are undermined. People come before institutions.

BOYCOTT!!!! THIS BOOK! DC!. what are you thinking. so if you are so indifferent to personal views why not hire some neo-nazis to write a Batwing story. Right-wing nuts like this with their old fashioned, backwards thinking belong in the history books.
Let’s move forward already humanity…

Geez DC. Worst press release ever. I’m proud of Zeus for deciding not to order the comic. That’s their choice as a retailer, and I hope other retailers follow their lead.

“Homophobia” is probably genetic (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18347968) so who are you to attack homophobes for following their programming?

Very interesting developments at DC. They seem to be aligning themselves with people who have avowed not only discrimination against homosexuals but outright violence as well. One can only imagine the twisted vendetta that Card will weave into his writings featuring (my former) hero Superman.

People it doesn’t matter what we think DC will publish their books anyway and they’re going to be people are going to buy the books it’s about money so we can get on here and complain about this but DC has the money and they can lose it and they are okay I mean look at all the cancellations they have had recently I have been a true DC fan for over 30 years they almost lost me with the new 52 but I stayed on and paid my 3.99 a book but now they have touched my beloved Superman I’m done goodbye DC

Orson Scot Card is an evil, evil little man. I really want DC to kick him to the curb.
Oh, and everyone? Please boycott ENDER’S GAME, too.

The only way anyone can know that sexual orientation is a choice is if it’s a choice they themselves made. Gideon: did you _choose_ your orientation? If so, what are the implications? If not, then where do you get off suggesting that gay people did?

Also: every kid who opens up a Superman comic… and every kid at heart who opens up a Superman comic… should get to feel that Superman is on his/her side. That’s the whole point of Superman and the key to his enduring appeal.

What message does DC send to LGBTQ kids (and LGBTQ kids at heart) by hiring a vicious PROFESSIONAL bigot to write a Superman story?

Scott,

Does “every kid” include kids who come from a national, ethnic, religious, cultural or other background that believes that homosexual mariage is unnatural, destructive, sinful, or otherwise contrary to their values and beliefs? It seems to me that you’re saying “Superman would totally embrace these people, but kick these people to the curb.” I’d think Superman would rather that people sat out the issue and talked about it–your definition of “every” isn’t very inclusive at all.

There’s an old issue of John Ostrander’s THE SPECTRE that dealt with the homosexuality debate in America. I thought it got a little over-the-top when it had a preacher villain (possibly Catholic or Episcopal, but I don’t think his denomination is ever identified) who got empowered with a flaming sword and started chopping down gays. However, it did end with the gay characters preventing the Spectre from killing him, basically pointing out that mercy and open discussion were a better way to go than perpetuating violence and hatred. I wish comics readers were a little more willing to engage in that kind of discussion rather than basically “OSC should starve to death.”

no actual child has an opinion about homosexuality, gay rights or any of that. such opinions are given to them by their parents.

and card’s in no danger of starving here so let’s dial that back.

he has the job and he is a millionaire from sales of his works to hollywood, not to mention the actual books. let’s not shed too many tears for his wallet.

plus, DC couldn’t give two sihts about anyone’s outrage over this. they certainly knew before he was hired what to expect and their response to criticism on this has been a very polite, “go f— yourself.”

if you’re not going to hit them in the wallet over this there’s no point in expressing your outrage because it’s entirely worthless.

they do not care what you think as long as you keep buying.

which most of you absolutely will.

If this guy were an outspoken racist, misogynist or anti-semite, we would not even be having this discussion. DC would never have considered hiring him in the first place.

So why is it OK to hire an outspoken homophobe who actively works to deny other human beings their basic rights? Are you writers who are supporting his right to his own opinions saying that they would provide the same level of support if he were a member of the KKK or the American Nazi Party? Really? If your answer is “yes”, you are beyond redemption.

Being gay or lesbian is not a choice, any more than being straight is a choice. Hundreds of LGBT youth harm themselves every year because people tolerate and support vocal homophobes’ right to express and act upon their beliefs and opinions. It’s time to say “no more” – certain freely held beliefs and opinions are so reprehensible in this day and age that the people who espouse them should be shunned.

Snyder hates horses and I kind of like them, so now I’ll hate Snyder and I’ll never buy anything with his name on it.

screw DC. fight the power. Do I care all that much about OSC writing Supes? not really. Do I hold it against DC for hiring him in the first place? Yes- I do- I will- and I will promote my ire! Hell no, I wouldn’t of bought the issue anyway. Hell yeah, I’m going to tell others not to buy it. I like to feel GOOD about my Superman. Before Grant Morrison wrote him, I thought Superman was an egomaniac preppy equivalent of a nazi legend. I changed my mind after All Star Superman, but now I’m coming back to that feeling.

InfectiousGrooves

February 14, 2013 at 6:24 pm

Believing & advocating that officially recognized marriage is between a male and female is not in any way similar to being racist, misogynist or anti-semite. It’s shameful and a huge stretch in logic for those in support of gay marriage to attempt to, ahem…”marry” these terms .
But see…this is what the vocal minority (it is estimated that less than 3% of the population in the USA may be homosexual) attempt to do. They scream at anyone who opposes them and label them “BIGOTS!” and “RIGHTS DENIERS!” (and basically repeat ad hominem in hopes it will “stick”)

It is basic knowledge that the human race procreates via Male & Female. As such, the entire idea of “marriage” arose around that biological fact. Civilizations emerged, with male/female marriage at resultant family at its core.

So yeah…for pretty much forever it’s been Male / Female marriage. Wow…the vast majority of people who ever lived and are currently living MUST be raging bigots…

But this certainly is all such a delightful demonstration of the “left’s” usual tactic of attacking/destroying the person, instead of attempting to fight in the realm of ideas.

“Burn him! Burn him! Burn him!”, all the Hitlarian leftists scream.

The irony that this man is writing Superman is tragic.

As a man who is gay and who has known friends physically as well as emotionally scarred because they are gay, who has known a friend who was straight beaten up because a bigot thought he was gay, and as a man who has had a friend murdered because he loved another man – who received little justice in a town that essentially believed that because this friend was gay he was almost deserving of bring murdered, I am deeply offended by anyone who dares call this story “ridiculous” or “over the top.”

To dismiss this story is to stand beside someone in ignorance, prejudice and out-right hatred. This “man” dares use his livelihood to fund his hate speech and actions that stand against equal rights for those who love outside of his own narrow views – especially in this century, where one would *think* some form of enlightenment would have been achieved. This author dares to say who I’m “allowed” to love or marry, thus, in principle, dictates who you should love or marry. Standing with this man is standing with all those men who dared say that a person of color had no right to sit at the front of a bus, no right to drink from the same fountain as everyone else.

I do not dare think I’m more than any man or woman here, all I want is to be treated as equal, as God made me. I’m a Christian and the educated Christian knows that Christ is Love and did not speak out against being gay … Nor, does the Bible. Even if the false Christians were right and declared us sinners, the hate that this man spews is not Christ like or Christ based, for he has no concern about those who are gay but simply lumps them as a threat to his ego. Even if he was focused on marriage itself, it is by far not a threat to any family. If anything, it ensures he is free to copulate and marry that many more women, to divorce as many women, and to have a broken home as he often as he’d like to produce. Marriage is not a heterosexual privilege, nor is freedom from violence, nor is freedom to be treated as any human should be treated.

Superman the character is a man who preaches truth, justice, and hope. DC’s latest venture provides a writer who speaks from ignorance, prejudice, and lies; he proclaims injustice and wants to extinguish hope. Superman knows what it’s like to be different, to not always fit in because some people wouldn’t be able to accept him – even his disguised self faces derision and scorn because of his actions, and he’s persecuted by a man who was once his friend all because he’s different, yet in the end, his heart and soul is no different than any other resident on planet Earth. That alone should be enough for DC to realize that this man may not be a suitable writer for the Man of Steel, unless he is to do the series from Luthor’s POV.

I’m a man. I’m a man who just happens to be able to fall in love with other men, to be attracted to other men. (I’m not about to jump you, probably I’m not even attracted to you personally!) I eat, drink, laugh, bleed, grieve, read comic books just like you, and I love. I’m 36, and have read and collected comic books for 33 years. It tears my heart that DC Comics would dismiss me – and that’s what they are doing by releasing such a statement and hiring those who preach hatred (just as others have said they would certainly not employ a known neo-nazi who uses his livelihood to preach and act on hatred), and that Superman would be handled by someone so not inclined to Kal-El’s character, BUT … What truly saddens me, and truly rips my heart out is knowing that other fans out there are so willingly to dismiss me and every other individual – who mock and joke and scoff about the treatment of “the gays,” or who would agree that this man is right, and that we are less than. But, maybe that will mean a win, in that all those comic fans here and out there who are so comfortable in their bigotry won’t be purchasing this comic, digitally or in print; after all, why would anyone who doesn’t believe in truth, justice, and hope want to read about Superman!

I’m utterly astounded that anyone can think that the Bible does “not speak out against being gay”. Someone who’s never read the Old Testament.

Anyway, that’s a bit beside the issue, and it’s bashing your head against a brick wall to try and explain to the religious that they firstly have genetic predispositions and emotional responses and values, and secondly they can use selective religious justification for them as it suits them, not because it’s “true” or was “the word of God”.

This is an extremely interesting discussion going on. Despite the fact that the internet is an easy place to explode with emotional irrational indignation and invective, there are an awful lot of heartfelt and thoughtful responses on here.

I’m still worried that it is slightly more complicated than some people think. Firstly, I agree that you could compare this with racism – if someone were to be campaigning against equality for Blacks or Asians, rather than for gays, it would be viewed differently – it would be much easier for people to see how wrong it is (unless they of course are bigoted in the first place).

But writing stories is a little more involved than this. Suppose you are given half a dozen books by anonymous writers – you know nothing about their lifestyle or opinions, other than what might creep through in their writing. You just judge the writing, don’t you, not the writer. You don’t refuse to read books by named writers just because you haven’t researched the possibly sleazy details of their drunken adulterous lives – you just care about what and how they can write. This surely has to be one significant factor in this discussion.

For those of you who ask, “Why can’t people just not buy the book? Why try to deny this man the right to work because of his ideals?”

I ask this?

“Why can’t ORSON SCOTT CARD just not MARRY A MAN? Why try to deny OTHER PEOPLE the right to MARRY WHOMEVER THEY CHOOSE because of THEIR ORIENTATION?”

See what I did there? It was the same question, but I just substituted…never mind…if you don’t get it, it will most likely be lost upon you…

Infectious Grooves – I see the far right is still trying to rationalize their hatred and intolerance. Unfortunately, you fail yet again. There are over 1,700 Federal and state legal rights and protections enjoyed by married opposite sex couples that are denied to same sex couples. Let me try get your main argument “straight”, so to speak: marriage is for procreation; since only opposite couples can procreate, legal marriage should legally be limited to opposite sex couples.

OOOOOOkaaaay…..have you told that to post-menopausal women who can freely marry a man, thereby enjoying these rights and protections (such as hospital visitation, inheritance, making end of life legal decisions, etc. etc. etc.)? What about infertile opposite sex couples who do not have children? Why do they enjoy “special” legal rights and protections based solely on the basis of their gender? What about Brittney Spears who can go to Las Vegas and marry some dude she’s only known for a week, only to divorce him a week later? Why does she get these legal protections (for a week) that are denied to a loving gay or lesbian couple who have been together for 25 years? I know gay and lesbian couples with children, BTW. Why do the children of opposite sex couples get special rights and protections not afforded to children of same sex couples?

We live in a country where similarly situated people are supposed to be treated equally under the law. Throughout history, there have been some who have tried to keep certain unpopular minority groups down. Fortunately, in America, these efforts fail over time and their fear-mongering and bigotry become exposed for what they are. While probably vastly under-estimated, what does it matter if LGBTs only comprise 3% of the population? You somehow use this as justification for denying them a basic human right to form their own loving relationship? Jews only comprise 6% of the US population and people with physical disabilities probably less than that; does that justify it when some groups would use their free speech to deny them a basic human right.

Let your hatred go dude; the tide of the future is against you. Jesus wouldn’t try to keep loving gay and lesbian couples down – why do you? Free your mind, the rest will follow.

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