Robot 6

DC Comics targeted for hiring anti-gay author to write Superman story

From the cover of “Adventures of Superman” #1, by Chris Samnee

Just days after announcing its latest digital-first anthology Adventures of Superman, DC Comics faces a growing wave of criticism for hiring Ender’s Game author, and vocal gay-rights opponent, Orson Scott Card to write the first chapter.

An online petition calling on the publisher to drop the “virulently anti-gay writer” has already drawn more than 4,800 signers. And while comic book fans and petitions seem to go hand in hand — it was just last month Marvel was being called upon to cancel Avengers Arena —  this effort is being spearheaded by All Out, an initiative of the Purpose Foundation advocating for gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender rights. The drive has already attracted the attention of mainstream media outlets like The Guardian and The Huffington Post.

Although Card is best known for his award-winning 1985 novel Ender’s Game, he has become notorious for outspoken views on homosexuality and his advocacy against gay rights. A board member of the National Organization for Marriage, a group dedicated to the opposition of same-sex marriage, the author has tried to link homosexuality to childhood molestation, advocated home-schooling to ensure children “are not propagandized with the ‘normality’ of ‘gay marriage'” (with Card, the phrase is always in quotation marks), and floated slippery-slope scenarios in which marriage-equality opponents one day will be classified as “mentally ill” and parents who encourage their children to pursue heterosexual marriage “will be labeled as a bigot and accused of hate speech.”

Following rulings by “dictator-judges” in 2008 that same-sex couples have a constitutional right to marry, Card infamously endorsed a government overthrow, writing, “How long before married people answer the dictators thus: Regardless of law, marriage has only one definition, and any government that attempts to change it is my mortal enemy. I will act to destroy that government and bring it down, so it can be replaced with a government that will respect and support marriage, and help me raise my children in a society where they will expect to marry in their turn.”

It’s a track record some fans find difficult to reconcile with DC’s iconic characters, to say nothing of the publisher’s high-profile efforts to diversify is superhero universe with the likes of Batwoman, the reintroduced Alan Scott/Green Lantern, and Bunker. DC featured a story about gay antiheroes (and Superman and Batman analogs) Apollo and Midnighter in last week’s Young Romance Valentine’s Day special, and recently trumpeted its nominees for the 2013 Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation Media Awards.

“Superman stands for truth, justice and the American way,” Jono Jarrett of Geeks Out, Orson Scott Card does not stand for any idea of truth, justice or the American way that I can subscribe to,” said Jono Jarrett of Geeks OUT!, a gay comics and gaming group, told The Guardian. “It’s a deeply disappointing and frankly weird choice.”

Andre Banks, All Out co-founder and executive director, added in a statement, “Did DC Comics forget to Google Orson Scott Card before hiring him or do they think a notoriously anti-gay activist was the best possible choice to represent Superman? Superman is the good guy who uses his strength to stand up for all the little guys. Card is the opposite — a bully who uses his platform to tear down gays and lesbians and stand in the way of full equality.”

Indeed, it appeared as if Marvel might be pulled into the backlash following Card’s 2008 essay, when commentators began to draw connections to the author’s two Ultimate Iron Man miniseries and the publisher’s newly announced adaptations of Ender’s Game and the sequel Ender’s Shadow. For any number of reasons — the infancy of Twitter? the lack of an organization to take up the cause? the absence of an iconic figure like Superman? — those complaints didn’t grow beyond a relative handful of website mentions.

However, this time, the controversy appears to have legs — and a cape. Adventures of Superman debuts online April 29 and in print May 29.

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Comments

151 Comments

Unless he puts those views of his into the story…what is the problem?

It’s the same as endorsing a pro-Apartheid writer from South Africa.

Charles J. Baserap

February 12, 2013 at 8:10 am

I’m all for people wanting to boycott the book, but I still live in America, and an opinion, even one I strongly disagree with, is not grounds for someone’s termination. He has the right to his opinion and belief, wrong as I believe they are, and should not be denied employment because of them. There are plenty of writers who have espoused anti-Catholic, or far leftwing, or anti-military, etc. sentiments that have been employed and are still employed. This guy has an opinion, and so long as he is not using his writing as a platform to promote hatred, or doing what the guy from Chik-Fil-A was and using the money to directly fund hate groups (and, let’s put it out there; just because someone is against something, that doesn’t mean they are a hate group out and out–there are many people against the war but that support the troops, just as there are people who disagree with gay marriage but encourage no harm, no death, no anything like those Westboro morons) he has every right to have employment for WRITING. His CRAFT is what is being hired, not his character and if we start disallowing people employment because they have an opinion contrary to our own, we may as well be in Nazi Germany because that’s the atmosphere it creates. People can choose not to buy the book based on his opinion, and I’d support that 100%. But when a company says, “You like x, y, or z, so based on that alone, you can’t be hired,” it’s not different than saying, “You’re a democrat, or a republican, or black, or white, or asian, etc,” that’s when a company is wrong and DC, by allowing him to work for them, is in no way endorsing him, which is a completely asinine supposition, considering that if they endorsed every opinion of those they work for, they’d never be able to reconcile Van Sciver and Simone on the same staff, as they are two polar opposites politically. A radio station playing classic rock that plays, or a record company that signs Ted Nugent and Bruce Springstein cannot be said to endorsing their views, as the two are impossible to reconcile together. When a company wants a hivemind, where only X, Y, Z as a belief system is tolerated, well, there’s your 1984 Thought Police right there. We have always been at war with Eurasia.

If a company didn’t hire someone who was pro-gay on those grounds alone, I bet dollars to donuts, there would be a protest against that. When the Million Mom morons were against Northstar’s marriage, the same people leading this charge were mocking that, and vice versa. I’ve personally grown tired of the faux outrage the second someone says something that is non-PC. No one seems to like opinions shoved in their faces unless they’re the ones doing the shoving. Slam the Church? You’re edgy. Mock a Republican? You’re topical. Make fun of an fat white governor? You’re a comedian. Say you don’t support gay marriage? You’re evil and should never work in any field ever again. As someone who has VERY publicly backed gay rights countless times, and anyone who’s seen me on Facebook or read my blogs can attest to that, it’s become a tired act to me. I won’t buy the guy’s work, because I choose not to give him my money, but I’ll be damned if I’m going to make demands that he has to recant or DC has to fire him because of them.

He doesn’t like homosexuality. That’s his opinion, and again, one I disagree with. And it does strike close to home for me, having buried an uncle who was like a second father to me that lived with HIV as a gay man for years, and yet still went to church every week, even though its teachings put him and his brethren down. Why did he go? I asked him and he always told me that he disagreed with the people in charge, but for him, his God was all that mattered. I’m an athiest myself, but, hey, it made him happy. But, again, it’s not illegal, not matter how disgusting, for someone to be a bigot, and if they’ve not broken any laws, they have every right to employment. The day I stop defending someone’s right to be an idiot, is the day I leave America. Anyone who doesn’t want to buy it, that’s 100% acceptable, but what I will never, and I mean NEVER, get behind on this one are those calling for the guy to be unemployed because he has a differing opinion. That’s exactly what I served my country to fight against–the people who would tell us it’s wrong to have an opinion, even if said opinion is, to me, a wrong one.

Wrap it in the flag if you like but would you call George Wallace a loyal American for being a Segregationist?

Free Speech is best.

Including the free speech of the people who think he should be sacked.

Would his defenders be ok with a racist writing for superman?

I don’t know, Charles, I think there’s a definite double standard when it comes to anti-gay activists. Replace Card’s comments with any other group—let’s say Jews, for the sake of argument, although your example of Catholics would also work just fine—and then it becomes much harder to justify hiring the guy to write for such a high-profile series.

Card has a right to say what he feels, but that doesn’t equal freedom from consequences.

While many defend him, saying that it doesn’t matter if he doesn’t put those views into the story itself, would the same question be posed if the author was an outspoken racist who advocated overthrowing the government if black people were allowed to marry white people? He’s not merely an outspoken homophobe, he sits on the board of one of the most virulently hateful organizations in the country, dedicated to spending absurd amounts of money to paint me and other LGBTQ people as insidious pedophiles trying to steal children, tear down the pillars of America, and make sure straight couples can’t be together in some mysterious causal relationship that never seems to be properly explained.

Before I started working in publishing full-time, I was an intern at Marvel Comics and respectfully refused to work on Card’s books for the company. If he sees any more work for DC, I think many LGBTQ and ally fans might not-so-respectfully decline to continue buying DC. Card has assured that any beloved, lasting legacy he might have had as an author will forever be tainted by his own outrageous and unrestrained hate.

Ultimately, whether the petition works or not, the peoples money will speak.
Though there have been cases of individuals buying multiple copies of books by individuals like Glenn Beck in an attempt to boost sales and teach dirty liberals a lesson in good old American capitalism…
But I digress…

Sales will tell the tale.

1) No such thing as Free Speech—don’t believe me, ask anyone who has been black-bagged on their way to a torture Country.

2) I don’t plan on buying the book because of Card’s politics. If Card, or anyone connected to him, is concerned about losing my money–then reconsider. If not—no worries.

3) If we should separate Card’s opinion from his work, should he not do the same? You can’t have it both ways–to say what you want and expect everyone to be okay with it (no boycott). If you are an author who likes to share political opinions then be prepared for disagreement and boycott.

Free speech—words make me giggle every time.

Would they hire a racist? No. They should not hire this guy because it is the same damn thing.

http://www.the-gutters.com/ <— the most recent issue deals with this topic

“How long before married people answer the dictators thus: Regardless of law, marriage has only one definition, and any government that attempts to change it is my mortal enemy. I will act to destroy that government and bring it down, so it can be replaced with a government that will respect and support marriage, and help me raise my children in a society where they will expect to marry in their turn.”

I don’t think he could have nothing against who will try to overthrow him from his writer duty because they don’t share his ideas…at least if he is coherent with his philosophy.

I like how people are automatically labeled as evil based on a differing opinion. Its not like he’s actively promoting the persecution of homosexuals. He’s just against gay marriage. Even if I don’t agree with his opinions, it doesn’t mean that I think he shouldn’t be given a job that he is talented and more than capable of doing. That’s discrimination based on personal opinions, and that’s wrong, too.

I am not a gay man. I am a happily married heterosexual man with a great family.

And I will say, when I saw the solicits, that the Adventures of Superman comic would have gone on my pull list except for the presence of Card’s name as writer.

I don’t see what the big deal is? Let’s just get on our Cosmic Treadmill and get Hitler to write a 4-issue arc. That’s a great way to make people feel like comics is a welcoming and inclusive means of escapism. Especially because it’s so hard finding a white male, straight superhero…I mean history is on the side of comics creating characters by a diverse pool of creators that EVERYONE can relate to..

There is nothing wrong it advocating his removal from the online book just like there is nothing wrong with DC doing nothing about that request. It’s a business decision – if you don’t like OSC don’t buy his stuff. True, it puts money his coffers, but other than being an a$$hat he is a good writer. On the other hand, there are a a lot of other good writers out there.

EVS is an unabashed Conservative yet I still buy books he draws because he’s a good artist. Personal choice.

If Superman were real, he would punch Orson Scott Card in the nards.

1) Sexuality is not the same as one’s skin color.

2) Equating the civil rights of people of color to the marriage rights of homosexuals is ignorant. Ask a person of color who lived through that era (or who still deals with discrimination today).

3) I’m betting you avid comic readers read many books by creators who have conservative views that you just don’t know about because they don’t feel the need to voice it. Are you going to start litmus testing creators and making sure they share your views? Do you think publishers should do that and NOT have a marketplace of ideas and people who can think for themselves?

Stephen B. wrote: “…..as an author will forever be tainted by his own outrageous and unrestrained hate.”

….and the same can be said for those hate groups who go after & hate Card. yep. the same can be said for those in the LGBTQ community who hate Card. The exact same thing.

boycott Card and get him kicked off. More totalitarian power to you, against those who do not think & act like you do.

I especially love how people equate Card with racism. This is pathetic. then people wonder why African-Americans have voted against gay marriage.

all i see are people who HATE Card & who hate people who do not agree with gay marriage.

Now a person can not just be friends with gays or support a LGBTQ’s human & civil rights…

Nope…a person now has to be PRO-GAY MARRIAGE to have any rights whatsoever or you will be branded a bigot and no better then Hitler and possible left without work and even incarcerated.

Well, if some members of the LGBTQ community want to promote being their own form of a hate group, thats just fine. then they deserve all the push back they will get.

Those in the LGBTQ community (and its not all of the LGBTQ community BTW) hating on Card are no better than the Nazis or Commies who put labels on those they disagreed with AND FORCED EMPLOYERS TO GET THOSE THEY DID NOT TOLERATE, FIRED.

I cant wait for someone in the LGBTQ community to now say DC is anti-gay. yep its coming. Unless DC fires Card or gets him to quit, DC is also anti-gay.

Wow, do these tactics sound eerily familiar to Nazi-germany or what?

First its a fast food chicken restaurant and now its a writer. Wow some of these LGBTQ folks are anti-EVERYTHING that isnt just like they are and think and believe. They sounds like bigotry to me. If it acts like a duck and walks like a duck…its a duck.

So once these type of LGBTQ community members get a hold of all levels of governemnt, is the LGBTQ community who cannot tolerate those who disagree with them, going to start rounding up those who do not and will not agree with gay marriage? hmmmmm?

how long will those who are not pro-gay marriage be allowed to live and exist THE WAY WE WANT TO? HOW LONG?

Absolutly patheitc the intolerance some in the LGBTQ have for those they disagree with. stunning & hateful & WRONG.

Burn him at the stake, Soviet America!.. Hating on haters is perfectly justified!..

Seriously?
I’m all for gay rights, but if someone isn’t personally, who cares? Its THEIR opinion!
These freedoms goes both ways people. But if you are one of those people who simply cant put aside an individuals personal beliefs and enjoy their work, don’t buy it, nuff said.

It’s easy to approve of the mob’s actions if you’re on the same side as the mob. But eventually you’ll be on the opposite side so you should be careful what precedents you set.

In situations like this the rule I was always taught was to flip the situation around. If you can support the reverse then the principle is valid.

Let us take Allan Heinberg, a gay author who (in my mind) is famous for including the first realistic portrayal of a gay couple in a comics. Now let us say the Mormon church threatened to harass Marvel until they fired him. Faced with this Marvel fires Mr. Heinberg.

Would you be in favor of that? If so then you should support this petition. If not then you shouldn’t.

@RethSogen

“Its not like he’s actively promoting the persecution of homosexuals.”

LOL, wut?

That is EXACTLY what he does.

I swear, comics never ceases to amaze me. Just like the comments on the article about the lack of black writers in comics…I am constantly reminded of how many close-minded, right-wing meatheads read the same books I do.

DC has made it plain that women, gays, non-whites are perfectly fine when they needed to be trotted out for a quick media boost, but are otherwise icky.

Why do you people give this company your money?

above commenter your #2 point is bullshit considering it’s not just the marriage rights of homosexuals that Card opposes but the very notion of homosexuality. bigotry is bigotry whether it’s against a certain race or sexuality or even religion and if this asshat wants to be verbal about it, then i guess it’s his right to do so, but he also has to deal with the consequences of what he says.

Arguing that it is acceptable to hire Orson Scott Card to write Superman just so long as he does not put his homophobic beliefs into the story is sort of like saying it’s okay to have Roman Polanski direct a movie just so long as it doesn’t endorse pedophilia.

I don’t have a problem with his views (I mean, I DO have a problem…but he can express them all he wants in a free country). My problem is in my opinion, he’s a terrible writer. I tried to get through his one novel about Ender’s buddy…it was horrible. His Ultimate Iron Man series was horrid. I’m not sure why he’s popular to begin with.

By the time I knew about his questionable political and social views, I was already not a fan.

I don’t think he should be forced off the book (check out some of the old Superman comic strips, there’s some pretty racist stuff in there, even for the time period)….but people should feel free to boycott him if they want.

There is a difference between being against gay marriage and talking about any government who allows it is your enemy that needs to be over thrown.

One is stupid, but understandable, i guess, the other is bat shit insane.

I signed the online petition, posted it over at comic bloc forums, tweeted it, & sent an email to Marvel today.

How dare he oppose the superior race of the LGBTQ?

Mike, Obviously sexuality is not the same thing as skin color. But saying you don’t want someone to have the same rights are you because they’re gay is the same as saying you don’t want someone having the same rights as you because they’re brown. It’s a idiotic way of thinking that luckily is fading from civilized society. And your point number 2 is ignorant. It’s people fighting for their rights and to be accepted as who they are. Where’s the difference?

Hi,

I’m quoted in the article (thru the Guardian) & I’m on the board of Geeks OUT, a group that rallies, empowers, and promotes the queer geek community.

I’d like to personally stress that we don’t advocate censorship or a political correctness screening for all creative professionals. We’re not about telling DC who they can and cannot hire.

This is a very specific, cut-and-dried instance in which an avowed enemy of marriage equality and gay civil rights is selling something and we’re telling our community NOT TO BUY IT, to respectfully and thoughtfully exercise their right as consumers in the marketplace. Keep your queer or allied dollars out of the pockets of the enemy, plain and simple.

We do support the raising of awareness and the activist spirit that this seems to have awoken in the fan community.

Thanks!

@XxSnakeProxX

“These freedoms goes both ways people.”

What exactly is free about banning gay marriage? It would be different if he was just some run of the mill homophobe, but the man advocates banning gay marriage which is TAKING a freedom away from others.

Tom: I’d have a problem with Allen Heinberg for another reason – he can’t meet his @@#$# deadlines!

RethSogen:

That is completely wrong. It IS like he’s actively persecuting homosexuals. He is a board member of a group whose sole purpose is to combat the social rights of homosexuals. Being against something, holding a bigoted opinion, while abhorrent, isn’t the same as activism. Mr. Card’s actions, and his writing on the subject oh homosexuality in general, constitute more than simply holding a personal opinion. He spends his money on hate groups fighting progressive civil rights legislation. He is right about one thing, history will view him and those who act like him as we do those who opposed inter-racial marriage, for what they are. Hateful, bigoted individuals who try to use their religion (unconvincingly and irrationally) to justify their personal hatred.

And finally, they have NO ARGUMENT. They same bible that defines marriage as between a man and a woman also defines women as property, allows for polygamy (in the case of men with multiple wives, not the other way around of course) and required the next oldest brother to marry his sister-in-law if the older brother were to die, even if they were already married.

These ideas have been adapted and changed, and the definition of marriage for the Judea-Christian religion has become what it is today, but the false notion that there is a static “Christian,” or in Card’s case, specifically “Mormon” view of marriage that can be used to condemn homosexual unions is preposterous. All Christians, Mormons until more recently than others, at one time were against inter-racial marriages in the U.S., and it was law. That doesn’t make it any God’s will, and it doesn’t make it right.

@ Nicole

“Unless he puts those views of his into the story…what is the problem?”

It’s cool if Jerry Sandusky writes Batman just as long as he doesn’t have Batman rape any kids, right?

and now for a point more on the matter. I don’t necessarily agree with the petition. However the problem is if you’re financially supporting card by buying his book then you are financially supporting groups who are fighting to suppress gay marriage. (Which Card donates money ) So not purchasing his books for this reason is perfectly reasonable.

PapaJohannesPatriot

February 12, 2013 at 9:08 am

I know through letter columns that a number of members of the straight community have made it known they won’t buy any DC comics with homosexual characters, and some that won’t buy any more DC comics period. But I haven’t read of any petitions for DC to fire anyone who writes stories featuring homosexual characters nor the editors in charge of those comics. If members of the LGBTQ are upset about this writer’s work, then just don’t buy the comic.

He is entitled to an opinion.

DC is entitled to hire whoever they wish.

Their business dealings are nobody elses business. If you don’t like X for whatever reason then don’t buy product X or whatever person X produces. You are not forced to buy anything (except healthcare *rolleyes* )

YOU DO NOT BULLY someone to YOUR OPINION by trying to get them fired.

Simple.

I must also take issue with the Nazi and Soviet Russia analogies. Boycotting a movie, television show or book because of the views expressed by someone who works on or for said movie, tv show or book isn’t a fascist act. It’s the exact opposite because it allows people the choice of being for or against the boycott. No one is being forced to agree.

And keep in mind, in a Soviet or Nazi state of the past, Card’s views on homosexuals would actually be accepted. If anything, they might be seen as too moderate.

Opposing a man’s opinions is one thing. Opinions can be argued and countered and debated. Impoverishing him over them tells me you don’t have the ability to win the argument.

Card is not a government official. He holds no political power. I don’t agree with what he says, but he has every right to say them, just as comic book buyers have every right not to buy the book.

Charles J. Baserap

February 12, 2013 at 9:14 am

Chris, that’s a Straw Man mixed with a reductio ad absurdum. The point she’s making is that just because he is a person with an opinion deemed wrong, that is NOT grounds to say he cannot have a job. Comparing someone who has an opinion to someone who was found guilty of actually PHYSICALLY harming people is an inanity. They are nothing alike. One is an actual criminal, the other is just, in my opinion, an idiot.

Her point was that there are many creators who have opinions that might not be popular; some may well be even worse but not publicized by them. So long as their work as an employee of DC is not being used as a platform to push an agenda, they have not violated any agreements or done anything criminally wrong, as did Sandusky, so your analogy is highly flawed.

@Hysan, I know for me, personally, my allusion to Nazi Germany wasn’t due to the boycotts, but rather the people who were demanding he not be given any work and bullying DC to fire him, thereby getting rid of him, as opposed to not just buying his work, or not buying anything from the company because of it. By the act of petitioning to have him fired, they are in essence trying to force DC to agree with THEIR opinions.

And actually, there are many instances of anti-gay petitions. The kerfuffle involving Ellen Degeneres and her ads for K-Mart are an example. In that case, K-Mart doubled down and didn’t fire her. DC might do the same here. I guess I don’t see the “bullying,” when on one side is a guy advocating for the marginalization and oppression of a group he disagrees with, and on another is one saying “we won’t buy anything this guy puts out and also won’t support DC Comics if they support him.”

One is the curtailing of freedoms of an entire group of people, the other is one guy missing out on a paycheck. Not quite the same.

That said, I’m fine with petitions and boycotts. Go ahead. When they tend to be pro-it’s okay to hate a person or group because they’re different from “us,” that’s where I find them to be misguided. Card isn’t being hated for being a heterosexual male…he’s being hated because he thinks another group is an abomination.

The point of the Soviet Russia / Nazi analogies is that the LGBTQ is acting like the authority, not the victims. Whoever opposes them gets squashed.

A bigot is still a bigot regardless of where his views come from.

The Ender, Ender’s Sahdow and Alvin Maker books were all awesome but they are also the last works by Card I will buy. He actively attacks homosexuals as a board member of the National Organization for Marriage and I cannot support that.

Everyone must make their own choices; some will agree with Card and some won’t, some will chose to buy the man’s work and some won’t. However, if someone does choose to buy Card’s work that does not mean that they agree with his views.

Any allusion to Nazi Germany, in ANY argument, is ridiculous. Elevate the discourse.

“Impoverishing him?” I think Card’s agent might be shocked by that. I’m no fan of the man, but I know his books sell like the proverbial hotcakes. Losing this gig will hardly put him into the poorhouse.

That’s a bit hyperbolic.

H.P. Lovecraft was racist as hell, but if he were still alive and got hired to write, say, a joint with Mike Mignola, I’d be overjoyed. T.S. Eliot is my idol in so many ways, but he was anti-Semitic and anti-democratic. I’m capable of abhorring a writer’s views and still supporting and really enjoying their work.

That said, outside of Ender’s Game, which is really good if not groundbreaking, I don’t care much for Card’s work. I can’t imagine he could bring anything to the table with Superman.

Hey, maybe he’ll end up writing Green Lantern! That seems a bit more up his alley, plus I can comfortably ignore it, because I don’t care about the Green Lantern franchise at all.

“The point of the Soviet Russia / Nazi analogies is that the LGBTQ is acting like the authority, not the victims. Whoever opposes them gets squashed.”

Doesn’t make the analogies any less wrongheaded and silly.

LGBTQ people are still being oppressed, discriminated against, denied rights and even killed in some countries. Orson Scott Card might be denied the change to write a comic book.

Huge difference.

Er chance not change.

“LGBTQ people are still being oppressed, discriminated against, denied rights and even killed in some countries. Orson Scott Card might be denied the change to write a comic book.”

this.
well said and wise up people…

I don’t like some of the things I’m seeing in these comments. Lumping all lgbt people together…stating it’s his personal beliefs or ‘opinions’ he’s so much more than a simple bigot- he’s an an anti gay advocate. If DC want to employ him that’s there choice, I wish they didn’t though.

Oh and to the people that keep knocking comparisons of lgbt rights with race rights we all know they’re dissimilar and similar, but stating that ‘we didn’t go through the same thing’ doesn’t make the view superior or necessarily add anything to the conversation. And not comparing but I’m sure my ex that was outed with his hiv status, my friend sent to a gay conversion camp, and my other friend sent to prison in Cairo for sexuality would disagree with the word ‘suffering’ in regards to lgbt rights- let’s not compare movements right now

This forum is a good example of godwins law btw

Boycott the artist whose politics/religion/morality doesn’t reflect your own! Call for his firing! Humiliate him at all costs!

It’s not the art itself, but rather our perceptions of the inner life of the artist that truly matters!

All together, everyone! When we’re done here, we’ve still got some Beatles records to burn!

Some of you seem to have not read the article and jumped right down to the comments to chime in. Card is not just “opinionated” but actively anti-gay; the above post mentions that he sits on the board of an anti-gay lobby. There’s a big difference between an activist like Card and a writer like Chuck Dixon, whom I followed during his time at DC, who publicly held conservative views but remained passive with them and would never engage in hate speech like linking homosexuality to child molestation.
I doubt his Superman story will have any hints of anti-gay elements and, as the blogger notes, this would have gone largely unnoticed a few years ago. This is just another shocking display of DC’s ineptitude; would any other media company so aggressively court a gay audience and then do this?

PS to Hysan and the other nitwits…
Yes, you can make allusions to Nazi Germany when someone uses language that so strongly resembles their discourse. Groups like the National Organization for Marriage employ many of the same arguments against the LGBT community that the Nazis aimed at Jews, Roma, and, yes, gays.
I agree with many of you that we generally can’t compare segregation to gay marriage but we absolutely compare the violence that is launched against minority groups.

attn: jeremy,

so is it okay to actively petition to deny rights to an entire group of people based on outdated superstitious nonsense?

i guess so, but as long as it doesn’t interfere with your weekly purchases…

The One and Only

February 12, 2013 at 9:51 am

Roman Polanski still gets work today, even after fleeing the country for what he did to that girl. And heck, much of Hollywood was wanting him pardoned and let back into the country. The big defence for the man was “respect the man’s art, not the man”. Also, Hollywood doesn’t seem to have any problem with adapting Card’s ENDER’S GAME into a live action flick either, despite his views on gay marriage.

Here we go again.

I wouldnt cross the street to meet Alan Moore. He’s too friggin’ weird. Same thing for Stephen King. These guys are far too bizarre for my humdrum existence.

I still like to read their stories.

I think Ian McKellan comes across as a colossal douche in interviews.

He’s great as Gandalf.

OK–so Card says things folks “cannot abide” in private life. Therefore he must starve.

So the bullied become the bullies.

Humans are doomed.

Uh, Alex…I’m actually pro-LBGTQ. But thanks for the namecalling.

It certainly does elevate the discussion.

Try reading for content and comprehension next time before typing angrily.

PapaJohannesPatriot

“I know through letter columns that a number of members of the straight community have made it known they won’t buy any DC comics with homosexual characters, and some that won’t buy any more DC comics period. But I haven’t read of any petitions for DC to fire anyone who writes stories featuring homosexual characters nor the editors in charge of those comics. If members of the LGBTQ are upset about this writer’s work, then just don’t buy the comic.”

^Liked^

There’s a huge difference between someone’s views and their work.

For one thing, Chuck Dixon is actually a good writer, and by all accounts, a class act. If anything, he seems like a “small government” conservative type who doesn’t think we have any business legislating people’s personal lives, and while he might be opposed to homosexuals in practice, thinks it is none of our business who marries whom. That and being conservative does not equal being a bigot. I know more than a few conservatives who are either 1. gay and 2. hetero and pro-gay. Freedom isn’t just for people who don’t “ick you out.”

The Nazi analogies are tired and stale. There’s a better way to argue. Try it.

i have to laugh every time some “woe is me, i’m being oppressed for being conservative” type comes on here to make comments. give me a break. conservative media and card types have been bullies for ages now and it’s about time people stood up and called them out on their bullshit and antiquated ways of thinking. “don’t like it, don’t buy it” type approaches only go so far and like I said, if Card wants to actively be an asshole, he should deal with the consequences. he’s living and working in a different world than 50 years ago.

Really? Try the death threats writers have received for introducing gay characters. People dropped Young Avengers because of Hulkling and Wiccan.

And speaking of death threats, it’s silly to boycott a writer or ask DC to fire them, but it’s perfectly acceptable to call for the firing of Dan Didio or Bendis if they “write a character wrong” or kill off someone’s favorite?

How is one not curtailing someone’s right to work or make money, but another isn’t?

I guess one is something you care about, and the other isn’t, maybe?

And I personally don’t think they should fire Card. Let him write the book. People will then see: it won’t be very good, and they’ll drop it anyway. Let the market dictate what happens.

I have a real question for you and the many LGBT defense groups:

Had you lived in under a “liberal” right wing dictadorship? I guess not, but that is okay. I am not going compare you to any dictadorship, even the ones funded by USofA. But I am going to compare you what this dictadorship, mainly the brazilian dictadorship (from April 1st 1964 to 1985). In every large press company there was at least 2 or 3 censors which had the single task to say what is published and what wouldn’t be publshed. Several journalists, artists, singers, composers, poets and other persons couldn’t publish anything not because what they were doing was against the system, they just couldn’t publish their material because something they did at their personal life.

There are stories about a very popular chronist/writer and college teacher at state of Goias which couldn’t publish anything at the newspapers because his personal life. He wasn’t a communist or even a libertarian, he just was a drunk man and he was very public about he would prefer to be a famous drunk than a annonimous(sp?) alcoholic.

So judge a person by its personal life is the same thing which you LGBT cause defenders suffer. Why don’t you start to produce your own material good enough to enter at the publishing arena and get at the top 10 instead you do a witch hunt? I bet there are a lot of artists, writers and editors which would love to work in a new project which they could show their real feelings, emotions and why not, sexual orientation crowd funded not just to publish the book or series, but to add some marketing power on that too.

Or if you want do a campgain I suggest you campgain to Alan Heinberg or Marc Andreyko or any famous gay writer get a chance at the same anthology, damn it, you could even call George Takei to write at the same anthology. But keep in mind what you want is the same chance, not just do a political statement and use that publication as a stage to sing your lifestyle.

You win the war against the prejudice not fighting a battle after another battle, but making your daily life more and more part of their lives. You win by the acts and not by the words. And the victory isn’t exactly you get a same gender couple at Comics big 2 being introduced with a fanfarre, but when you notice Bruce Wayne just flirted a tglady and that just be a minor act and not a big mess.

It comes down to the fundamental belief of whether or not being homosexual is a choice or not. People want to put it on the same plane as “race discrimination” but its a lot more complicated than that. I know people who were not “gay” then literally decided to become gay because they were tired of failed relationships of the opposite sex. While I do think some people are born with a persuasion to being homosexual, there is still an element of choice involved there. No one chooses what race they are. There is no wiggle room there.
I don’t have a problem if someone is against homosexuality as a moral code, and if they want to voice their opinion about that, fine. It’s America. But leave hate out of it. I know plenty of Christians and other anti-gay people who love gay people and oppose it not out of a spirit of hate but out of a spirit of love. Card is taking a hard stand on this, and that is his right.
What about people who are pro-life vs pro-choice? In my opinion, that is a much deeper, heavier topic. If you believe it is murder (as I do) then I would have a much harder time reading a book written by someone who condones the murder of unborn children. Pro-choice is actually on the decline. Only 25% of Americans believe that Abortion should be legal in all circumstances. Look it up. And yet, for some reason, it is crammed down our throats by the media that being pro-choice is the best way to go. So, homosexual rights fall WAY behind abortion issues in my opinion. Are we boycotting pro-choice writers?

Remember: purchasing work by any artist is the exact same thing as supporting each and every one of his political views! Seriously! IT’S EXACTLY THE SAME!

Sam Robards, Comic Fan

February 12, 2013 at 10:11 am

This is s sticky subject. I’m a happily married heterosexual male. I’m also for gay marriage, though I must separate marriage into two types: legal and religious.

Legal marriage (a.k.a. going to the courthouse and getting married) between a same-sex couple should be legal across the board, no strings attached.

Religious marriage, on the other hand, should be up to the official (priest, rabbi, etc.) performing the ceremony. If he or she is against the union, he or she can’t be forced to perform it. The couple in question can always go find another priest, rabbi, etc. to marry them.

In terms of the “discourse” on the topic, things get out of hand quite easily (as demonstrated numerous times here).

Despite what some might think, using a product or service provided by someone with differing views doesn’t mean you share those views. I love Michael Jackson’s music and listen to it fairly often, but that doesn’t make me a pedophile nor does buying a Michael Jackson album mean I’m endorsing pedophilia.

At the same time, there are certain actors whose off-screen/actual personalities bother me so much that I actively don’t see movies they’re in.

My question is, at what point does campaigning/petitioning against someone/something due to the opinions of the creator into actively discriminating against the creator for said views?

I don’t have an answer to that question: I really don’t know.

I tend to judge things on a case-by-case basis.

I still go to Chic-Fil-A even though their founder is against gay marriage because, at the end of the day, THEY’RE A FREAKING CHICKEN RESTAURANT. Their product isn’t built to try and get me to change my opinion on gay marriage: their product is designed to alleviate my hunger. That’s it.

Writers, on the other hand, are a different story. Some try to infuse their work in a way that highlights their political beliefs while others can filter their opinions out while crafting their stories. So, again, I take things on a case-by-case basis.

From what (very) little I’ve read from Card, he doesn’t seem the type to to ans proselytize his audience.

But that’s just my $0.02.

Sam Robards, Comic Fan

February 12, 2013 at 10:12 am

“My question is, at what point does campaigning/petitioning against someone/something due to the opinions of the creator TURN into actively discriminating against the creator for said views?”

The stupid…it BURNS….once you’ve brought in abortion, the argument has gone down a really bad rabbit hole. This is just about comic books, people. Seriously? Is this what it’s come down to?

On the flip side, I stopped reading Alan Moore because his personal views are so ridiculous and insane. That, and everything he does seems to involve rape. What’s up with that? Also, he’s kind of an %$##.

Again, they should keep Card on, if only to show people his lack of talent.

I’m done before someone else calls me a nitwit or a Nazi without reading my actual comment….have fun, y’all.

Given Card’s views, I find it odd Card would seek work with DC. Practice what you preach, Orson.

gman, you’ve officially won the moron of the day award. jesus christ…

The only “hate” I see here is from commenters who have no tolerance for people with conservative or religious convictions. It’s like “ANYTHING is okay, so long as you agree with us.” Card has convictions that it is not the government’s place to redefine marriage. That doesn’t equate him to Hitler or racist Americans during the civil rights era.

I wonder, if DC proceeds, how many of you have real convictions not to support them any longer.

Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences. Card can have whatever private opinion he wants, but once he makes it public everyone else has the right to respond to his actions, including putting pressure on DC not to work with him.

If DC wishes to hire this person to write a Superman story, that’s their choice.

They really should consider that choice, though. Hiring this guy will reflect on DC Comics as a whole. Do they want to be known as a company that actively AND KNOWINGLY hires a homophobic writer with allusions to overthrowing the U.S. government if he doesn’t get his way?

C’mon, Didiot, even for someone with the diminished IQ that you have shouldn’t have too much of a hard time with this decision.

matt, what a great argument.

I kind of love how “vote with your wallet” is always the advice given to unhappy consumers… until they actually do it. Then it’s “How dare you not give your money to somebody you don’t want to give money to!”

It’s almost as funny as the “Why are you so intolerant of my intolerance?” line.

Freedom of speech isn’t freedom from consequences. The government can’t infringe on Card’s right to say whatever he wants, but the paying customers who oppose his views are completely within their rights to demand his removal from the book. That isn’t “bullying.” It’s the power of the consumer.

Mummra the Ever Living

February 12, 2013 at 10:23 am

Honestly, as a comic fan, this is embarrassing. Not the hiring of Card, but rather the reaction of fans.

We cry out for “Diversity in Comics”- well to quote the Comedian “It came true. You’re lookin’ at it!”

Why is it that the representation of another viewpoint can be deemed as “Evil” by a Rights advocacy group?!! The base argument here is essentially “his belief system isn’t mine, therefore he shouldn’t be allowed a livelihood”- that is abhorrent.

At some point we need to accept that the LGBT life and the Christian belief system cannot be reconciled. They are inherently offensive to one another.

Should the writers of “The New Normal” (a show about a gay couple adopting) be dismissed as the topic could be considered offensive to thousands of Christians?? That’s the equal and opposite argument. The difference being that Card’s output has not been shown to share his political leanings in the someway that “The New Normal” does.

Yeah, I gotta agree with the others, gman. That’s the dumbest post I think I’ve ever read. Abortion?? Really?

To say anybody should be denied a job because of their views is un-American. He has the right to his opinion and if you don’t like it don’t buy it, plain and simple. To persecute him for his views is something Frederic Wertham would do. I have concerns about some of the things Card says but that doesn’t prevent me from enjoying his work. Should we have a new “Comics Code” for creators that states you can only write comics if you have certain beliefs?

Also, lets step back for a minute and realize something, Orson Scott Card is an author. He has no power to implement his views. He has an audience but I guarantee more then half of them don’t share his views, they just like his stories.

Finally, something like this can have a backlash. Chik-Fil-A anyone?

“Opposing a man’s opinions is one thing. Opinions can be argued and countered and debated. Impoverishing him over them tells me you don’t have the ability to win the argument.”

But you can’t debate or counter an argument when the person making it feels that they are following the word of an infallible god.

I wasn’t going to buy this book because I don’t generally care for Card’s writing, but now I think I will give it a try.

oh, my heart bleeds for you mike w. sigh, such a hard life being a privileged white male. boo hoo. the likes of you have been ramming opinions down other people’s throats for ages and you act like spoiled brats when you’re not on 100% friendly territory. cry me a river…

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Mummra, this isn’t just about a difference of opinion. I think the vast majority of us gay folks KNOW that some people have a problem, personally, with gay people.

The problem comes when the people who have a problem with gay people use those opinions as a basis of denying rights to homosexuals. I could care less what you think about me or what I do. But when you start legislating MY rights, that’s when we’re going to have a problem.

This petition isn’t an affront to Card’s right to free speech. Rather it is a companion to this right. Free speech isn’t about everyone getting to say what they want without worrying about being called on their bullsh@. It’s about having all ideas put forth, examined and criticized that they might be improved. It’s more dangerous to have a bigot’s right to free speech revoked and have him brood in the dark and decay intellectually than to have it presented in the light and shown as the ignorance it is. I don’t think Card will likely be convinced of the error of his ways but others may see the points and counter-points and come to a better conclusion than they would have if they hadn’t been exposed to the subject in the first place.

I’m all for his right to have such an opinion but I’m also for my right to disagree with it and express my dissatisfaction through that petition to DC. DC has the right to act on it how they please just as I have a right not to give them my money.

Everyone retains their rights in this scenario. Yay!

Whose rights is it ok to legislate?

actually Card as has been stated is on the board of one of the biggest anti gay groups in america, who has funded anti-marriage petitions, supported anti-gay politicians and sent people to other countries to actively work to take a way gay peoples rights. Uganda is currently debating the “kill the gays” law, which was put into their minds by the organization Card is a part of.

and seriously why in the holy hell would ANY one “choose” to be gay. To be ridiculed and not afforded the same rights as straight people? who in their right mind would do that?

“At some point we need to accept that the LGBT life and the Christian belief system cannot be reconciled. They are inherently offensive to one another.”

That’s simply not true. There are plenty of Christian gays and lesbians, plenty of gay congregations, and even mainstream denominations that welcome gay and lesbian members. Jesus never mentioned homosexuality.

“Why is it that the representation of another viewpoint can be deemed as “Evil” by a Rights advocacy group?”

That other viewpoint isn’t “I hate Star Wars” or “Trickle-down economics is a sham!” Card is actively advocating for the denial of rights to a group of people, so I think it’s reasonable for someone who believes otherwise to deem his actions and views “bad,” “objectionable” or “repugnant.” (Did anyone actually say “evil”?)

Let’s just put it like this….all the writers in DC, Marvel, Dynamite Ent.,Archie Comics, etc. they all are bigoted, prejudice, racist, anti-this, anti-that, left, right….EVERYONE has an opinion or belief they ascribe too in life and they all don’t have to be on the same page as us…the readers.

If they haven’t been told to share their personal opinions in life within the comics they’re writing then they’re doing their job. If it offends folks that much that someone doesn’t believe or feel like they do about an issue, don’t read their stuff…period.

When the comic book companies start to cater to one over the other…that’s when the comic is going to suffer because this world is not just about one point of view. Everyone has a right to their opinion, beliefs and values people….who’s right and wrong…well…that’s to be determined by God and God alone. Until then, let’s just read comics for comics’ sake.

and as others have said, Card’s first amendment rights aren’t being curtailed. The first amendment prevents the GOVERNMENT from preventing you from voicing your opinion, not others or a private business. You are guaranteed freedom of speech NOT freedom from consequences or freedom from someone calling you out for having a antiquated belief system.

What ever happened to “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it”?

This sad vile man has every right to his hate filled opinions. DC has every right to hire this sad, vile man. I also have free speech and have every right to tell DC I won’t buy any product with his name attached. Free speech does not mean no one’s allowed to respond to you. ..

gman actually makes some great points Kudos.

Oh, and Ender’s Game rocks. Everyone should read it.

I don’t have time to read through everyone of the–I’m sure–thoughtful and well thought out comments here, but I have noticed the race card being played a few times. As someone with a lot of Natives in the family, I know of a major American sports league with a team with an obviously racist name, but most NFL fans seem okay with that. “They’d never hire a racist?” I wouldn’t be so sure. When it comes to what is, or isn’t appropriate, it appears that where one draws the line isn’t the same for everyone.

“right to a job”?

I don’t think you need to be concerned about his income. Maybe you should care more about Siegel’s heirs instead?

This man has proposed overthrowing the US government because of gay marriage.

He is vile and his is ANTI-AMERICAN, an anti-patriot.

And he is WRITING Superman of all things!

Has DC Comics gone nuts?????

A few days ago, this very blog appeared shocked and dismayed when a conservative group (the NRA) was alleged to have a “blacklist” of cartoonists they wouldn’t support over the cartoonists’ views. Now the blog seems blasé, if not supportive, of a blacklist against Card for his views. Funny about that.

No to Mccarthyism. I don’t even know what Card says about gays. And I couldn’t care less. He’s not in politics. So I call for for everyone to boycott the sad vile McCarthyists and ignore those buffoons.

Why has everything got to be homosexual approved?

Many people have pointed out that it’s not that Card simply opposes civil rights in theory or in private, he actively publicly opposes civil rights. He does this in his writing, such as when he rewrote “Hamlet” (See William Alexander’s review of “Hamlet’s Father” at http://www.raintaxi.com/online/2011summer/card.shtml). He does it with his money and time, such as serving on the board of the National Organization for Marriage.

It is up to every consumer/individual to decide what art they support and for their own reasons, either due to the artwork or the artist. Both are valid.

People, myself included, are signing the petition to let DC know that they do not intend to support Card. I do not wish to give the man any money which could be support his campaign against civil rights. I do not like the idea that a fraction of my money will be funneled back to an organization that dedicates itself to oppression.

Sadly, if not for Card’s billing, I would purchase the comic (the printed issue #1). I am always interested in the work of Chris Sprouse, Karl Story, Jeff Parker and Chris Samnee.

It’s also important to remember that the First Amendment says “Congress shall make no … abridging the freedom of speech…” Nothing about the reaction to Card is a violation of his or DC’s First Amendment rights as the government is in no way involved.

The problem is not that he is a hateful douchebag writing a comic book. He does have a right to express whatever views he has, no matter how archaic they may be. The problem is that HE IS WRITING SUPERMAN!

“Superman is just this perfect human pop-culture distillation of a really basic idea. He’s a good guy. He loves us. He will not stop in defending us. How beautiful is that? He’s like a sci-fi Jesus. He’ll never let you down. And only in fiction can that guy actually exist, because real guys will always let you down one way or another. ”
-Grant Morrison

“The problem is that HE IS WRITING SUPERMAN!”

So?

Your quote implies that the good thing about Superman is that he’s perfect even if no real person is.

As such, no one should write Superman because no one is perfect.

………………..I’m thinking it’s time the first amendment was re-written to make Card’s idea of ‘free speech’ a federal crime.

“Freedom is the right of all sentient beings” EXCEPT those who wish harm upon their fellow beings. I’m sorry, but if Card keeps this up, he’s effectively surrendered his humanity in my books. Anyone up for deporting him and those like him into space?

“No to Mccarthyism. I don’t even know what Card says about gays. And I couldn’t care less. He’s not in politics. So I call for for everyone to boycott the sad vile McCarthyists and ignore those buffoons.”

Oh, yes, by all means, let’s wait until he’s in a seat of real power before we protest him.

I’m still buying the book (episode? download? what the hell do you call online comics?). I’m sure I’m buying many books who’s creators, whether it’s the writer, artist, letterer, inker, editor, etc., have differing and/or whacko beliefs. Just because Card wasn’t smart enough to keep it to himself won’t stop DC from getting my money for this.

“I’m thinking it’s time the first amendment was re-written to make Card’s idea of ‘free speech’ a federal crime.”

The whole point of the First Amendment is to protect unpopular speech. Your idea sounds great until someone who disagrees with YOU is in power and thinks YOUR speech is hurtful or dangerous to others.

Peter Morningstar

February 12, 2013 at 11:31 am

He has an opinion, and he’s entitled to voice it. Why the hell shouldn’t he? It’s his right isn’t it! Isn’t America this great democracy where free speech flourishes?
You don’t agree, don’t buy the book, that’s your right.
With both Marvel and DC actively portraying same sex couples in comics and homosexuality, what’s wrong with hearing an opposite point of view?
Bottom line, a lot of people rightly or wrongly do not agree with same-sex relationships, what’s even less agreeable is when particular groups or individuals seek to silence that right to voice their opinion.
You don’t like it, whichever side of the fence you’re on, tough, welcome to the real world and something called free speech.

Sure this guy’s opinions are uneducated, bigoted and completely idiotic but as long as he doesn’t write them into his stories he’s entitled to his opinions and if he wasn’t hired because of his opinions then that would be discrimination too. So even people who demand DC to not hire him are actually doing the excatly same thing that he does to gay people.

I’ll be voicing my opinion of Card by NOT purchasing this, which pains me as it would be an automatic buy otherwise.

Card is but one conservative in a sea of “progressive” creators. Should Gail Simone, for example, be axed because she wants to take away my right as guaranteed by the Constitution — that located in the 2nd Amendment?

@Hank
Depends on the definition of ‘unpopular’ speech–I’m just talking about knocking down and killing the very kind of speech that led to Nazi Germany! If Card’s free to say all his stupid shtick, then why can’t anybody have the guts to walk up to him and say “Shut it, you tin Hitler”?

DC just does not want my money.

DC lost my Batman business over the Stephanie Brown/War Games affair years ago.

Haven’t touched a Bat-family book since, although I’ve followed many other titles in the ensuing years. When this news arrived last week, I cancelled the rest of my regular DC pulls at the local store.

I’ll replace the business with other publishers so as not to harm the retailer’s cash flow, but this plus the implied subtext in the recent brouhaha over Alan Scott (“Get it? Get it?! He’s sensitive to wood!?!!) means I’m out and will stay out until there’s a turnover in editorial at DC.

like it or not even orson is entitled to opinion on things even if they are the most anti bigoted nasty things ever said. besides hopefuly dc and warner will make it clear that certain things can not be done with super man and if he tries them like making super man a bigot like him dc will be smart enough to tell orson sorry bye bye we made it lclear super man is always to be done a core way you violated it orson. for like every one else orson is a writter and is going to get work no matter his bigoted assine homophobic views.

Just curious…..just because this Card guy doesn’t fit everyone’s cookie cutter—he cannot write the All American boy scout known as Superman. Correct? Thats the argument?

Joss Whedon is an atheist. He’s also obviously a democrat (based on the Romney Zombie thing he did online awhile back). He wrote Captain America as an old school, all American boy scout with Judeo Christian principles.

If the guy is a good writer, he won’t try to write every character as himself.

Honestly—trying to bully DC into not hiring someone is just as stupid as those moms trying to boycott Ellen.

No one group is gonna get its way.

DC wants everyone’s dollars. As does Marvel. They, nor their heroes, are any one particular group’s property.

It’s all about the Benjamins. Anything other than that is just them pandering to get those Benji’s.

I love it when people talk about right-wing views and complain about the lack of diversity. Right wing views are EVERYWHERE, they’re not in danger of being crowded out by the left, or suppressed. You can’t turn on the radio without hearing Limbaugh, or the tv without seeing Fox or numerous other avenues of right-wing ideas.
As well as the fact that right-wingers have no problem with suppressing the views of others, because they’re pornographic, or “anti-American”, as during the Bush administration when Linda Ronstadt was evicted from her hotel for pissing of the owners and some of the crowd, or when the Dixie Chicks were boycotted. Hypocrites.
Conservative and libertarian ideas saturate the media, and to think otherwise is to see the world through an ideology that says you’re being victimized if people keep you from controlling everything. The only time rws complain about the lack of diversity is when they’re using it as a tactic, otherwise they shun it as bad, Unamerican or weak.
And, as to the idea that society doesn’t have the right to say that the consequences of bigotry are bad enough that we won’t allow it to happen, this is just wrong. There is a very clear social consequence to bigotry and hiding being the first amendment won’t make that go away. You can say what you want, and act on your beliefs WITHIN the law. But, you don’t get to do that without consequences. One of which is that other people who oppose your actions will act against you. Just as you do against them.
Last point, saying your ideas are strongly-held, or that they come from deep religious or political convictions doesn’t mean they make sense.

Never read any of Card’s stuff. I might have to check this out.

Wow, didn’t realize I was such a moron. LOL. Didn’t think I said anything that crazy. Did bringing up abortion make people uncomfortable?

I was simply trying to point out that I see that as a MUCH bigger issue than gay rights. And the VAST majority of the country probably buys and supports things (entertainment) by people who are pro-choice. I am guilty of doing that as much as anyone.

Also, I think it was someone named Kevin who said, “There are plenty of Christian gays and lesbians, plenty of gay congregations, and even mainstream denominations that welcome gay and lesbian members. Jesus never mentioned homosexuality.”

This is true. However, Jesus did define marriage as being between a man and a woman. Take that for whatever its worth. These kinds of discussions are good when we truly hear what each other are saying. Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

Someone’s opinions should not be the basis of denial of work; not in the United States, anyway.
The man is a writer, and I can almost guarantee that no editor at DC is going to allow him to use Superman as his mouthpiece for anti-gay opinions. If you choose to boycott the two issues he’s going to co-write, fine, do so. But don’t say a guy can’t earn a paycheck because you don’t like his politics.
Are you sure there aren’t people who work at DC who actually agree with Card’s opinions?
Has anyone taken into account that a homophobe can actually be a Superman fan and want to write stories about Superman?
Can anyone explain why Card would even want to work for a company that has high profile gay characters and has promoted gay marriage and gay rights in its product aimed primarily at teens?
What about gay-centric Hollywood making an Enders Game movie? Where are the protests there?

You don’t fight discrimination with discrimination.

GMAN, in Jesus’ day marriage was between a 40 year old man and a 14 year old girl.
In the modern Western world that’s considered rape.

My god. I am just so disappointed on many levels here.

Let’s get some things clear, first.

Mr. Orson Scott Card is a legitimately successful sci-fi author who penned a very well-received novel, Ender’s Game and many others that followed. He’s recently done some work in the comics field, notably at Marvel with Ultimate Iron Man and now with DC on Superman. He is also a teacher at a small college in NC.

Card has also utilized his public profile (whatever that may be) and money to support anti-gay movement work. He is a board member of the National Organization for Marriage (NOM), an organization dedicated to denying legal recognition of marriage equality for gay and lesbian couples.

For you folks who identify as straight/heterosexual/breeder, that means a right that you don’t blink twice about engaging in is actually not allowed for a small group of citizens of this country. You want all the federal benefits of being married? You can literally go to the county office today and make that happen (provided you have an active partner of the opposite gender who wants to go through it with you). Mazel!

Same can’t be said for your gay comic loving buddies.

NOM also has stood in alliance and inspired hate laws in other nations, like Uganda’s very own “Kill the Gays” laws. That’s not, “Poo poo the Gays” or “Let’s Put the Gays in Jail” or “Let’s Set Aside a Separate Land for Gays Because they Have Cooties” law, which are all repugnant enough. It’s active, legalized genocide of homosexuals. Let’s all wrap our heads around that for a moment.

Orson Scott Card is a BOARD MEMBER of this organization.

He’s not your hateful uncle who just rants about “what’s wrong with America” once a year at your family Thanksgiving dinner. He’s a hateful person, who channels that hate and does a lot of work to make sure that his “opinion” stands to rule.

Because he is a US citizen, he has every right to express opinions that are anti-LGBT. And he actively uses those rights many a times. That guy is not shy, y’all.

But the same people who oppose him and find him reprehensible, have every right to sign a petition to ask that he not be associated with DC Comics and Superman. They have a right to draw attention to his warped and hateful beliefs. They have a right to express their disgust that this man who’s actions are very much anti-American, should not be associated with a fictional character who very much represents the American ideal.

And let’s be clear, that this is a petition. Not a corporate mandate to release Card from his place of employment. No one on the signatory list has that power. It’s a group of comic fans who would like to express their very distinct distaste for one creative person who actively works to legally deem LGBT individuals as sub-human. No one on this petition has some executive-level ability to stop Card from being employed at DC; but collectively they can make their case that this guy, should not be the man behind Superman. And they can hope that at the VERY LEAST it makes DC Publishing think a bit more about who they employed.

Finally, do remember, that this same group of people wields as much power as any of you who may support Card writing Superman. So if you want to stand by Orson Scott Card, then do so. Just educate yourself on what and whom you are supporting. Is this where you want to draw your political ethical line? This is the guy you want to get behind?

Anybody defining the denial of a group of people basic rights as a “difference of opinion” needs to examine their conscience.

And the “you’re not being tolerant of my right to be intolerant” argument is utter b.s. You are not a victim because you are getting called out on your irrational hatred, you are a bully who’s being stood up to. Evolve, please.

“Someone’s opinions should not be the basis of denial of work; not in the United States, anyway.”

Oh, really. Tell that to everyone in Hollywood who’s not hiring Mel Gibson. Do you think they should be accused of denying him his rights? Or is it backlash against anti-semetic rants and generally looney behavior?

Again, Card is not just a writer with opinions. I know of plenty, and very popular, creators in the comics world who don’t view homosexuality like I do. I have no problem with them.

But when a person, like Card, is an active board member of a group whose sole mission is to deny equal rights to gays and lesbians? And has also pledged to PERSONALLY try to overthrow the U.S. government if they dare to do the right thing and grant equal protection for all of its citizens? Yeah, that goes above and beyond someone with a simple opinion. His words….”Regardless of law, marriage has only one definition, and any government that attempts to change it is my mortal enemy. I will act to destroy that government and bring it down, so it can be replaced with a government that will respect and support marriage.”

That’s a very, very scary man. And DC should think twice about hiring him.

First Amendment Rights: do not mean what you seem to think they do.

The First Amendment protects us all (including Card) from the government suppressing his right to speak his mind, in a public space. He gets to say homosexuals are evil, he gets to send his money to groups actively attempting to harm others, he gets to be a mouthpiece for bigotry and cruelty all he wants, have a blog (so long as the blog owner chooses to let him speak on their privately owned platform) or whatever else he’s up to.

The First Amendment does not protect him from: being called out on his shit, being refused work, fired, boycotted, uninvited to my house, or other legal consequences of his actions and beliefs. I can’t beat him up; the government can’t throw him in jail for what he says. DC certainly can rescind their offer; other businesses can refuse to serve him.

The First Amendment does not apply to private businesses, they *can* require that you not speak or hold certain views in order to work at their place. Ask the Boy Scouts.

The First Amendment certainly does *not* mean I have to ignore someone’s public beliefs, accept DC’s choice to hire someone I find odious, or protect Card from the well-deserved sh! # he gets for being an a$$hat.

Let’s boycott everything that is even remotely unlike our point of view. We would all die soon. Couldnt eat, drink, sleep on a matress….only die. Everything has something offensive to it if you wanna dig deep enough. Even a harmless Oreo.

Last year we got a “gay oreo”. Lots of rainbow colored filling. Hurrah….i guesss. if it matters. But the Oreo symbol is also associated with the Knights Templar (who fought during the Crusades), as well as with the German military (uhmm….Nazis) and today’s Freemasons (secret society devoted to keeping the truth from Fox Mulder and Dana Scully).

Ya know what? Oreo cookies are delicious. As for the rest? WHO GIVES A RAT’S PATOOTIE?

If all the gays boycott Chick Fil a—it wont stop me from eating what I like

If all the Conservatives tell me I shouldnt buy from JCPenney because Ellen likes gals—it wont stop me from buying a decent blazer for a Valentine’s day date with my missus.

I am going to do what I want no matter which group tells me what to do or not to do.

For the record: I dont buy anything Superman anymore anyway. Because most of the New 52 has left me cold.

But everytime anyone says “I like this writer, director, politician, or whatever”—-everyone with an agenda tries to tell us why I shouldn’t. like them. Now, I am gonna go eat some Oreos and Chick fil A, drink a Coca Cola and put on some PJs that I bought from JCPenney and watch something fictional. Strategically avoidiing CNN, MSNBC, and FOXNews.

Criminey.

“Last year we got a “gay oreo”. Lots of rainbow colored filling.”

That was only a photo, you know.

“With both Marvel and DC actively portraying same sex couples in comics and homosexuality, what’s wrong with hearing an opposite point of view?”

The…the opposite point of view being: “This particular group of people is comprised of sub-human creatures who do not deserve the same rights that we ourselves enjoy?”

What the hell is wrong with you?

“Breeder”? Really? On top of everything else, we’re going to throw in a derogatory term about people who can/do have children right now?

Apropos of nothing, I see that Mr. Card is a devout Mormon– which is his business, of course. But I think it’s important to look into the backgrounds of various authors before people consider themselves “shocked” that he or she might have certain social views that the observer may disagree with.

This actually presents an interesting challenge (of sorts) from a public relations standpoint. Many fans wish that they could work for DC or Marvel. So if you were working for DC in their PR department, and you were tasked with handling this should the press come calling (comic-industry press, fan websites, mainstream news outlets), then how would you handle this? Bear in mind, whatever your personal take is on Mr. Card or his political views, this is about servicing the client (DC Comics). Your bosses say “we’re publishing the series as is, uninterrupted. Handle this.” Okay, now what?

Throwing my two cents in as a life long comic book reader and out gay man:

Yes, “free speech” guarantees OSC’s right to say whatever he damn well pleases.
But I don’t have to agree with it or buy any book with his name on it.

But to those pooh poohing us gays who are all hot under the collar about this – it’s not a matter of holding my boyfriend’s hand in public, no it’s the right to stay alive. You do know that LGBTQ people have been murdered for simply living, right?

We are ‘intolerant’ because we are tired of being bullied, we are tired of having to be on the defensive 24 hours a day, we are over having to explain to people who are not GLBTQ why we are angry and exhausted. And this is why we go bat shit crazy when it seems like the gains we’ve struggled so hard to make over the past 40 years look like they are being chipped away. Yes, we have made crazy big strides these past few years. it’s been amazing. But we’re only somewhat close to being equal citizens. Oh sure I can get married here in New York, but not across the river in New Jersey. How should that not make me upset? And that’s a ‘special’ right? I should be glad to have the 9 states that I have and shouldn’t want any more? Uhm Ok.

Those of you who think we’re just being whiners, well, I’d love to you to live my life for just a day. Even an hour. You’ll see that those doors that are always open to you – in business and in life esp if you are white and straight and male – are closed .. or at least you will have to work harder to keep them open. At the very least, when you’re watching TV tonight, count how many times you see a man and a woman kiss or do something romantic?

Now count how many same sex couples you see. If you pull out a beer for every one of the former you see and put back a beer for every one of the latter you see, you will have a very long line of beers left at the end of the night. You don’t even think twice about this. But the message that we get is clear: gays/lesbians/trans.. it’s all ooky. I get it, you probably don’t want to see it… but I’ve had to watch straights on TV for 49 years… you can deal with a little same sex mack now and then.

I don’t really see that DC is the devil for hiring him… I think it’s a very slippery slope to travel to impose that ever company background check every employee not just for crimes but for political views… Personally Im more upset by GLEE’s destruction of all the gay/lesbian relationships on the show, diminished Unique’s role and created a weird ‘gay was just a phase’ vibe on the show. I guess coming from a show that was so revolutionary about it’s out and proud-ness, it feels like it’s going backwards to me.

I guess it boils down to this: homophobes with money are a dime a dozen (and always have been). I’m surprised that the White House hasn’t investigated him for inciting the overthrow of the government. Because they don’t really care about the gay thing, but that treason thing upsets them a mite.

It’s just sad people don’t understand the 1st amendment. Near as I can tell, OSC is perfectly free to espouse his views, including being a board member of an organization openly dedicated to advancing them. He’s not fired for having those views personally and he’s not in jail. He’s in 0 trouble with the criminal justice system for his comments. It’s also a pretty big deal that these aren’t old comments, but ones that he currently strongly advocates.

With that said, he works for a media company that operates in a very public way and he needs to recognize how his extremely vocal views might be perceived by the public. Whatever your job is, it’s almost a certainty that the 1st amendment doesn’t protect you from losing your job if you embarrass your company (unless you’re such a big fish like Howard Stern that it becomes part of your shtick). If you turned to your co-worker and called him every insulting name in the book, or if you were rude to a customer and told them “how you really feel”, you could easily lose your job by expressing ‘free speech’, but you’d in no way be in trouble with the government.

Exercising free speech does not absolve you from the consequences of that speech. Card is free to say what he wants (and be part of an organization that looks to make our society more discriminating), but people who don’t agree with him are also free to not buy his book and vote with their dollars by not supporting the parent company if they so choose.

Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences. If I express opinions that other people deem to be hateful and derogatory then I can’t whine when those opinions end up hurting me. ESPECIALLY when I am as vocal and unabashed about them as Card is. I’ll defend his right to say what he believes all day just I would a Neo-Nazi’s (I’m African-American btw). But for Card to not expect these opinions to carry consequences is beyond ridiculous.

And a petition is not denying him his free speech. A petition, boycott etc. is as much an expression of freedom as Card’s numerous essays on the subject of homosexuality. So it’s ok for one lone person to express their displeasure with something but when a group of people do it then it becomes “bullying”. (A term people really need to understand and stop throwing around so freely)

Cause and effect. Words and actions comes with consequences. Sounds to me like Card is just having to deal with his. And even that’s debatable as it seems unlikely DC will let him go.

I don’t see how that his views would affect the plot -ridiculous.
I’m sick and tired of people that label as “haters” all of those who don’t agree with their lifestyle.

Andrew Allenpeat

February 12, 2013 at 7:56 pm

I just read the “overthrow the government article” that was linked above. Gay rights aside, anybody who’s *that* incompetent a writer shouldn’t be hired by anybody.

The comics is the most boringly homogenous industry in existence. Yeah, get all dem homophobes outta the business. Ain’t nobody ‘sposed to think like most people did, uh, 20 years ago!

How about believing Catholics next? Or do yall only tolerate the Kevin Smith kind?

The gay propagandists whine about people’s rights, but don’t care much about churches being vandalized, or someone being forced by law to make a wedding cake for them, etc etc…

Dang it ‘Comics is…’ not ‘The comics.’

Big Deal. So DC Comics may lose 1% of their sales. People don’t realize that these activists don’t make up that much of the population. And not all of them are fanatics. However, the few who complain, are very loud.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/americans-have-no-idea-how-few-gay-people-there-are/257753/

A boycott is the proper way to handle such a situation. If you do not agree with someone’s opinions don’t buy their product. If Superman sales drop when Card starts writing it, DC will remove him from the book. I am Christian, and I am also homosexual.

Isn’t the main basis of Christianity the golden rule? One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself. One should not treat others in ways that one would not like to be treated.

Why do some devout Christians feel there own beliefs must be imposed upon others through government law? As long as they follow their own beliefs and are not prevented from doing so, why does it matter if the gay couple across the street follows there own beliefs without causing anyone else any harm?

Legal marriage should be removed and have it’s name changed to civil union or something so that the religious folks opposed to gay marriage can have the marriage term for use by religious organizations only and have civil unions for all, gay or straight, be used for the legal rights and tax rights.

it’s fucking stupid that people care abiout this. so what… let the man write superman. it’s not like that sorta thing is gonna be in the story. i read ultimate iron man and he’s a great writer. i’d love to read his superman

No where in any of his ENDER’S GAME series did he ever elude to any Anti-gay issues. Being a former student of his, (yes he is a college professor as well, teaching Creative writing) I could not think of a better writer, to have the honor of writing story lines for Superman, let alone writing for DC Comics. Besides, if he was so “Anti-Gay”, why would he accept the “offer” of writing for a company that already has written comics about “openly gay” superheroes? He’s a great writer, and I’m pretty sure anything he writes has to go through a screening / proof reading process; not to mention, I’m pretty sure Geoff Johns wouldn’t let anything happen to the Superman / DC Comics reputation. Everyone needs to chill out and let Orson Scott Card write some fantastic Superman Comics!

@ Ray Hsia Just an FYI, the small college he teaches at is actually in Southern Virginia, close to the NC border, he just lives in NC. I am alumni of that school, and took Orson Scott Card’s creative writing class.
That being said, and knowing it was a small college, the class size was about 15 students in that class, which means we got to know him on a personal level. I can tell you right now, that there is not one ounce of hate in that man’s body! Yeah so he’s on the board for NOM… By him being associated with that organization, does not mean, by any means, that he is automatically a “hateful person”. The only hate I can sense, reeks from your submission, and I am not judging on speculation, your writing is pretty clear. You however my friend, seem to judge a man solely on a persons affiliations. Why are you judging anyway, who are you to judge a man’s character based on his opinion. Yeah so, he’s affiliated with NOM… He’s a man who stands up for what he believes in… Isn’t that what living in America is about?! Wasn’t America founded on FREEDOMS?!

Now I understand that you do have the right to give your two cents, but How Dare you call judgment on someone you have NEVER met, based solely upon his affiliation to an organization, especially the National Organization of Marriage… Now if he were a member of the KKK, then yes, I would agree that he would be a hateful man, but an organization that promotes heterosexual marriage unions…. It seems through all your research on Mr. Card, you forgot to research the definition of HATE.

I am a heterosexual man, who is married to a woman; I personally don’t agree with gay marriage, and that is my opinion. I am also not “anti-gay”; I have many homosexual friends, a couple very close friends actually. They know how I feel about marriage, and we are still very good friends, and on top of that…NO WHERE do I have any hate for any homosexuals.

I say let Card write Superman comics because he is a GREAT sci-fi writer, to me, that’s all the credentials he needs. Who cares about his other affiliations, let the man write about “Truth, Justice, and the American way!”

Here is my problem with not granting gay marriage, the rights that are being denied homosexual couples : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights_and_responsibilities_of_marriages_in_the_United_States

A couple in particular that are just wrong and inhumane:

family visitation rights for the spouse and non-biological children, such as to visit a spouse in a hospital or prison
next-of-kin status for emergency medical decisions or filing wrongful death claims
domestic violence intervention
Tax-free transfer of property between spouses (including on death) and exemption from “due-on-sale” clauses.
Special consideration to spouses of citizens and resident aliens
Funeral and bereavement leave
Making spousal medical decisions
Permission to make funeral arrangements for a deceased spouse, including burial or cremation
Right to inheritance of property

So if you are against gay marriage you feel a gay person should not have visitation rights to there life partner in the hospital or prison, and should have no say in any medical decisions if there life partner is unable to make them, should not be given funeral/bereavement leave if there life partner dies, and should have no inheritance rights to there life partners belongings not specified in a will after there death?

Won’t be getting my money. And I’m sorry (oh wait a minute, I’m really not), but whoever the above person who said that the whole ‘be tolerant of my intolerance’ argument is pure BS is absolutely, positively spot on.

OSC crossed the line for me when he rewrote Hamlet with an anti-gay polemic at the heart of it. This book was designed to be read & discussed by school students. That tipped his his work over the point from opinion to a particularly nasty form of propaganda and eclipsed any worth of his works on their own merit for me. It was also loathesome to piggyback this rather insidious bigotry on the work of the man considered the greatest of English writers.

Added to his activist work on the anti-lgbtq NOM board and it’s far beyond ‘personal opinion’ territory.

In a time when DC is having continual problems reaching out to the more diverse parts of it’s audience these should have raised giant red flags over the appropriateness of being associated with his voice. Whether he is fired or not the boycott serves the purpose of letting DC know how their actions are percieved.

Orson Scott Card isn’t just some guy with an opinion. He is an activist who spends significant amounts of time and money working to deny civil rights to gays and lesbians, in his role as the most prominent board member of the so-called National Organization for Marriage. Let’s not even discuss his call to overthrow the US government if gays and lesbians are given equal rights. Ultimately none of that — none of it! — matters. Nobody is saying that the man doesn’t have a right to work, or to make money at his craft.

We are saying we don’t want our money to go to him (and, through him, to NOM), so we are not spending it on his projects, and we are encouraging our friends to avoid doing so as well. This is a very simple concept. My money, my choices.

Which also means, of course: your money, your choices. If you want your money to be used, ultimately, to deny the civil rights of your friends and family members (you may not realize you have gay friends and family members, but whatever, you do), you go right ahead and throw your money at Orson Scott Card. You have a right to be a jerk, and I have the right to call you one. If you want to be a jerk without being called one, well, I’m sorry, the Constitution doesn’t protect you from that.

I think there is a significant distinction to be made with OSC that goes beyond merely stating views that some may disagree with. I disagree with Bill Willingham, Steve Ditko, and Frank Miller on a lot of their right-wing-ish ideas, but I wouldn’t boycott their works based on disagreeing with them alone.

OSC, by virtue of sitting on the National Organization for Marriage board and similar actions, is going not just thinking and saying saying things I don’t agree with. He is engaging in active advocacy and lobbying efforts to deprive people of equal rights.

I find that intolerable.

If you don’t like Card and his opinions/beliefs then don’t buy his books. Money talks louder than anything else. If DC doesn’t make any money off his Superman run then they will get rid of him and move on to someone else. Signing a petition to submit to a company to get someone fired because their opinion differs greatly from yours is small-minded and dangerous, in my opinion. It’s a slippery slope that we shouldn’t be going down.

Being anti-equality is not the same as being pro-equality.

For people to argue that someone in favor of gay right is the same as someone who is against rights is laughable. The Declaration of Independence says “all men are created equal”, people like Card don’t think so. To me that make OSC anti-American more than anything else, I won’t support that.

The N.O.M. spreading lies about gay people is not just having “an opinion” or a “belief”. The N.O.M. trying to take away rights after they are given is not just “disagreeing with a lifestyle”.

NOM is simply emotional-terrorism, targeting people for being how they were born.

So the NOM, which pushes for people to boycott Starbucks, thinks it is unAmerican to boycott DC.

Hello?

I don’t see what the big deal is. They hire pro-homosexual writers and actually put their views right INTO some of the comics, even though there are plenty out there who disagree with them. In this case they’re hiring an anti-gay writer who wouldn’t be able to put his views into the story.

Anyone who thinks this is like hiring a racist needs a reality check. Comparing the gay rights issue to racial rights is not only incorrect, it is also extremely offensive.

Pull the comic and I’ll never buy another comic in my life. We want to read Superman not Thuperman, who cares is he is a moral man against homosexuality, that is all the more reason to support him. All you hippies that think otherwise move somewhere else where people may accept your sinful lifestyle.

Call me crazy, but I don’t believe in oppressing people for their social, political or religious beliefs.
I’m a strong gay rights activists and I believe it would be hypocritical to keep others from work or being happy because I don’t agree with them.

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