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Grumpy Old Fan | Harvesting DC’s October solicits

One of these things is not like the others

One of these things is not like the others

After September’s market-chasing “Villains Month” solicitations, the October listings look a lot more normal. I say “more normal” because I only count 47 New 52 ongoing series, which means October’s new additions don’t balance out August’s cancellations. Forever Evil and other miniseries are picking up some of that slack, but obviously they won’t be around forever. If DC is serious about having 52 ongoing titles — and why wouldn’t it be serious about something so arbitrary? — now may be a good time to start pushing for that Crimson Fox series you’ve always wanted. Hey, DC has greenlit worse ideas …

NOT FOREVER, BUT CLOSE

Forever Evil is 2013-14′s big-event crossover miniseries whose hook is that the villains have taken over the world. Final Crisis was 2008-09′s big-event miniseries whose hook was that Darkseid (helped in part by a revived Secret Society of Super-Villains) had taken over the world. Final Crisis didn’t actually do much crossing over into ongoing series, but it did have an array of tie-in miniseries and specials, including one featuring the Flash’s Rogues Gallery.

Appropriately enough, therefore, Forever Evil will also have a series of tie-in miniseries. Get ready for six issues each of Arkham War, A.R.G.U.S. and (yes!) Rogues’ Rebellion. With the seven-issue core miniseries, that makes 25 issues’ worth of bad behavior, none of which will be over before March. Moreover, in October FE crosses over into all of the Justice League titles, plus Suicide Squad and Teen Titans. Basically, it’s a tie-in miniseries and at least one crossover issue every week except the first and last:

10/2 – FE #2/7
10/9 – FE: Arkham War #1/6; JLA #8; SS #24
10/16 – FE: Rogues’ Rebellion #1/6; JL #24
10/23 – FE: ARGUS #1/6; JLD #24; TT #24
10/30 – n/a

Subject to change, naturally.

THIS IS YOUR BIG DEBUT, LIKE A DREAM COME TRUE

We may never know the extent to which anguished debate filled the halls of DC Comics about whether to launch its latest batch of high-profile books in September, for the New 52′s second anniversary, or in October, so as not to compete with Villains Month. Clearly, October won (because the villains won in September, duh), and it will see the first issues of Justice League 3000, Superman/Wonder Woman, the Damian: Son of Batman miniseries from writer/artist Andy Kubert, the new Sandman miniseries from Neil Gaiman and J.H. Williams III, and the new Vertigo witchcraft series Coffin Hill.  Each looks fairly impressive, either on the merits or in terms of hype potential, so start anticipating now.

BUSINESS AS USUAL

For the various Justice Leaguers — presumably either doomed or newly recovered, depending on timing — superheroic life goes on unabated outside of the Forever Evil bubble. Geoff Johns and Paul Pelletier help Aquaman come to grips with the Scourge of the Seven Seas, while the Others are rumored to get their own series if their Aquaman Annual #1 spotlight does well enough. Brian Buccellato and Francis Manapul continue their Reverse-Flash arc in The Flash, Brian Azzarello and Goran Sudzuka launch a “shocking new direction” for Wonder Woman (one which may well ignore the new SM/WW book, if history is any guide), while the JLA’s Katana, Green Arrow and Vibe seem unaffected by their ostensible deaths elsewhere in these solicits.

Meanwhile, in the “I believe I had that” department, Pandora #4 begins her “quest to kill the Seven Deadly Sins”; or, as some might call it, “the rest of the series.”

THIS AND THAT

R.B. Silva should be a good fit for Worlds’ Finest #16. Rafael Albuquerque might not last long on Animal Man, but boy will it look pretty.

While Greg Pak may be the new Action Comics writer, apart from Superman Unchained, October belongs to Scott Lobdell. He writes “Psi War’s” conclusion in Superman #24, pens a follow-up to Grant Morrison’s Brainiac storyline in Action #24, and kicks off the next crossover, “Return of Krypton,” in Action Annual #2.

As for Pak’s current title, for some strange reason I have jumped to the conclusion that the end of Batman/Superman #4 is a Trouble-style reversal, where we learn that the “main” Bruce Wayne is Helena’s real father. I am sure that’s absolutely wrong, but just in case, remember where you heard it.

Wow, after months of crossovers among the Green Lantern books, October begins another crossover among the Green Lantern books. I would be more upset about this if I’d actually bought all of “Wrath of the First Lantern,” and if “Lights Out” lasted any longer than October.

The Witching Hour is the latest classic DC horror title to get a Vertigo-special makeover, and with it a solicit that actually says (with a smile, of course) “destroy all men.” The book will probably be good, given who’s involved, but the sentiment might have gone over better if the creative teams didn’t have so much testosterone.

DIGITAL NOTES

Arrow and Ame-Comi Girls are both canceled in October, although Arrow may return in the fall when the TV show does. Meanwhile, Legends of the Dark Knight will skip the monthly floppy format entirely and go straight to collections. That last is a little surprising, mostly because I thought DC would be reluctant to cancel a monthly Batman comic, even an eclectic anthology. Maybe it didn’t want competition on the shelves with the Black and White miniseries? Still, moving to collections-only is better than nothing, and honestly speaks more to the material’s staying power. I was thinking about making that move for Smallville and Adventures of Superman, although I wouldn’t mind continuing to read those monthly.

Speaking of digital-first, the solicit for Batman ‘66 #4 refers to “1960s London,” although the show did a (somewhat epic) three-parter set in “Londinium.” I guess London:Londinium::New York:Gotham?

COLLECTIONS

And speaking of “Arrow,” the first batch of stories from the 1987 Mike-Grell-written ongoing series gets a paperback collection. At the time, Grell’s revamp (in the Longbow Hunters miniseries) was pretty radical, ditching the happy-warrior attitude and the trick arrows and settling firmly into an urban-vigilante mode. Today, these stories are probably fairly close to the TV series. I wouldn’t count on DC reprinting all of this ‘80s-‘90s series, as it ran for more than 100 issues (many of those under writer Chuck Dixon) and eventually featured Ollie’s son Connor Hawke. In fact, I suspect DC probably should have called this Green Arrow By Mike Grell Vol. 1, both to make its purpose plain and to distinguish it from those other “first volumes” out there.

If memory serves, that Green Arrow series was Ollie’s first-ever ongoing. He’d starred in various backup features and a couple of miniseries, and of course was a regular in Justice League and (for a while) Green Lantern. I say all that to note that there was a time when the Joker was deemed more worthy of an ongoing series than Green Arrow was, and that time was 1975. Curious readers can revisit this Joker solo series — which, coincidentally, features an issue guest-starring Green Arrow and Black Canary — in this fall’s affordable paperback. Despite an all-star creative roster, I don’t think it has the best reputation, but odds are it’s still better-remembered than Man-Bat.

Speaking of affordable, the solicits include a series of DCE Essentials, 64-page issues for $1 each. The solicitation copy suggests that each DCE issue might only reprint the first issue of the New 52 Batman, Wonder Woman, et al, but if that’s the case, what are the other 40-odd pages for? Here’s hoping they each reprint the first three issues, which for a buck apiece would be a pretty good deal. (Also, for the conspiracy theorists out there, I note that the Sandman and V For Vendetta books are “DCE,” and not otherwise identified as Vertigo …)

Along the same lines, the Ex Machina paperback looks like a pretty good deal — 11 issues and 272 pages for $20.

AND FINALLY …

I’m glad to see Nicola Scott break through the ceramic Bat-ceiling, but now I really want a Batman: Black & White statue designed by Kate Beaton.

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Comments

45 Comments

Andrew Kolvek

July 11, 2013 at 3:33 pm

Speaking of DC’s September event. I’m curious how big those books can be. According to Didio, all of the covers have already been printed in China. So, they either made way more than they think they can sell, or were semi-conservative on the print run. They will most likely have a huge month, but it will be interesting what those numbers will look like when everything is said and done.

Your “Trouble” prediction…I sure hope not. I can’t articulate why that seems wrong, but it does.

All these Green Lantern crossovers are about to kill my love for any of them.
Blackest Night was epic and crossover worthy. But things like Third Army and First Lantern is killing my interest in them. I like Kyle and the angle of him being a White Lantern but it’s all for naught if all his series serves is to add another layer to the main Green Lantern title.

Holy crap, that Finch Forever Evil cover is AWFUL. Usually he’s okay, but…Yuck.

Regarding the OCT solicitations:

Similar to what Marvel has done recently, I can’t help but think that DC will be announcing the post solicitations, “retro” cancelling / final issues of Stormwatch 24, Batwing 24, Katana 8 and Vibe 8. I’m thinking NOV may see cancellations at Green Team 6 and Movement 6, followed by DEC cancellations at All Star Western 26. The June numbers were atrocious for those titles. By OCT-DEC those numbers will certainly be even worse. If Trinity of Sin Pandora does okay numbers, I can envision the Trinity of Sin titles hanging on long enough the see a launch of Trinity of Sin Question title, before possibly all merging into a new title Trinity of Sin featuring all three characters before that title likely gets cancelled at issue 6, 8 or 12.

What all of these thoughts are leading up to is that I DC may ultimately trim down to perhaps 36-40 ongoing titles, where every title gets an annual. The New52 “tally” will be achieved each month by counting up all the ongoing titles, the annuals, Specials, One-Shots and event mini-series being solicited each month.

Exhibit A: This month’s New52 titles total 57 or 58, depending on how you look at the Damian mini-series. It might be cause for dismay from some fans, but I anticipate that every issue of all of the Forever Evil mini-series does better sales numbers than the above cancellation candidate titles.

It’s interesting that DC is doing something this big in September consider September is the worst selling comics month.

Prediction: at the end of Forever Evil, JL, JLA and the low selling JLD will merge into a single flagship weekly, with the cast of all three teams. JLU/Mission Impossible style stories, where characters are used as needed for specific missions.

This gives DC four Justice League comics (at $3.99) to sell instead of just two that sell really well and a third that people ignore

Prediction #2: LOTDK skipping the print monthly is a test for a digital/trade formula for lower selling comics. Just skip the LCS till the trades hit. Smallville sells too well in print to do this to it. (DC’s only title that ships 15 issues a year in print.)

Johnny_Thunders

July 11, 2013 at 7:58 pm

“All hail” Geoff Johns.
It’s like watching a dog chasing its tail most of the time.

That’s some damn good analysis, Jim T. It’s a good thing I’m not buying any of this stuff.

@ Michael

I doubt they’ll merge them since that would mean Johns would be writing four issues a month for just one series, and already he’s temporarily giving up chores on JLA for this event. I doubt he’d give up Aquaman since I think he’s trying to do the same thing he did for GL for the book, and I honestly think he wants to take over one of the Batman books soon because A) I get the feeling from the work’s done with the character since Flashpoint that he really enjoys writing him and B) at that point the only major JLAer whose solo he wouldn’t have had a decent sized run on would be Wonder Woman.

He couldn’t do Aquaman plus a weekly book (let alone the Batman book I’m sure he’s about to do, I mean, he just gave up GL so he must be gearing up for something), and he’s too egotistical about the JL to let someone else write issues of the book if it becomes a single monthly book. He’s only grudgingly giving up JLA for now because he can’t give up on any of the other projects, otherwise he would have just let Matt Kindt have a shot at having a decent run on the book instead of a single arc.

I predict that JL3000 is the replacement for JLDark, which I’m sure is going to be cancelled by the time Forever Evil is over, perhaps before. DC seems to like to have three JL books – they launched with three, JLA replaced international (and the gap between the two wouldn’t have been so big if David Finch wasn’t so slow now because of his current poor-man’s Deodato style), and npw that Dark is limping into this current crossover (which I’m sure won’t really boost sales that much), DC is launching this new JL book to pull double time by filling Dark’s gap plus Legion’s.

I would agree with the theory that DC is moving away from 52 ongoings and maybe moving to 52 new universe books in general a month, since it’s clear that while they can support a decent number of ongoings, they just don’t have the following to support 52. Getting to 52 every month by counting one-shots, annuals and minis makes a lot more sense because it allows them to keep the 52 that the executives like so much without having such a bloated roster of monthlies. Plus, they might be more willing to sign off on minis (and right now it seems to me like there’s been a bit of a dry spell from both major companies when it comes to minis), which I think is a good thing since they can be fun plus I’m more willing to impulse buy one because there’s not as much long-term investment – 3-4 issues and I get a complete story, plus they’re a way to get a look at new talent I may end up being a big fan of down the road.

They could always change the tagline to DC: The Not Quite 52.

Between Forever Evil, Villains Month, *another* Green Lantern event, Marvel with their own pointless events (X-Men Battle of the Atom, Infinity) all flooding the market, I truly hope retailers possess enough common sense to order high on creator-owned non-superhero books too, like the new Vertigo books (like Coffin Hill, Hinterkind) and Image titles (Pretty Deadly, Rocket Girl).

Sure – maybe the business model is a little different for those latter books (Vertigo’s backlist is its front list, for example) – but there are other comic book readers out there who don’t like superhero stuff. I find retailers don’t support people like me. These books always end up selling smaller numbers because retailers just don’t support them – and yet at the same time complain about the glut of Batman/Avengers books that they do support.

I think the events by DC and Marvel shows a) how unimaginative and bored their editors must be to think these books qualify as “quality stories” and b) how tired the whole superhero “genre” is, that they have to resort to these gimmicks all the time.

I really feel we are drowning unnecessarily in all this dross because of these companies’ desperation – whereas imprints that do outreach to different types of audiences and succeed because of that aren’t getting any promotion.

Reading this post makes me glad about these events books. It’s the retailer’s fault, that’s all they want to sell, they deserve to be buried under it

The better stuff – Vertigo, Image, Boom/Archaia, Monkeybrain, Valiant, Comixology Submit – so much rich pickings if you like creator owned, non-superhero, breath-of-fresh-air books. Now there’s Amazon joining the game

Thank you Digital for existing so I can explore these books – and not have to step into a comic book store ever again, ‘cos all they care about is events comics and selling what DC/Marvel feed them

@ Jon

Retailers will order what they know they can sell; they’ll buy however many indy titles they think they can sell, and not a copy more despite people like you and your holier than though attitudes. Frankly, the last shop I went to (now closed because of their piss-poor landlord spiking the cost of their lease) would order few copies of indy stuff, and even those copies would languish in the back-issue bin for months. The fact is, events sell.

Good, solid runs one Big 2 mid-level and higher properties can also sell w/o crossovers, but I’ll agree that Marvel and to a lesser extent DC are way to willing to commit to big events instead of letting each series do their own events. Look at Morrison’s JLA run – all but DC One Million were self-contained, yet arcs like World War 3, Rock of Ages, and the JSA pseudo-cross-over all felt like big events. I think that’s the way to go and to avoid reader fatigue.

The X-Men are a different story. For them, cross-overs, from Mutant Massacre and up until Onslaught (I still maintain the lead-up and X-book chapters were at worst mediocre) were not only solid stories that enriched their own little corner of the MU, but also something to look forward to. You didn’t get the event fatigue you get nowadays because each crossover did feel like the satisfying conclusion to something the writers had built up to. Fall of the Mutants was the conclusion to several long running subplots in the three main X-books, Inferno wrapped up the Madelyn Prior/Jean Grey stuff and put the Darkchylde stuff to rest (for a long while, at least), X-Tinction Agenda helped bring the teams back together somewhat and put a lot of the Genosha stuff to rest for a bit, X-Cutioner’s Song wrapped up the Cable/Stryfe saga, Fatal Attractions did away with Magneto for a while, etc. – they all paid off long running things in a big way while also planting small seeds for the next major subplots (admittedly, not all of them were paid off). More stuff was resolved than planted, essentially, which certainly helped make the events feel satisfying and important, elevating the mythos.

The problem now is that the company cross-overs (especially Marvels) don’t seem to resolve much of anything, they do the opposite of the old X-Men crossovers. I’ll admit, Infinity looks like iit sucks – I’m calling it out now as a piss-poor attempt by some hipster writers to cash in on Avengers 2 Thanos madness and early 90s Starlin cosmic nostalgia (the 90s are big now, look at the trends), plus we know Fraction can’t do events so his Inhuman follow-up event will suck for sure(basically turn the Inhumans into the mutants, because that doesn’t step on the toes of the X-franchise, right?).

I’d be worried about Battle of the Atom since Bendis is writing half of and he’s the guy responsible for the past six years of weak-sauce events, but Jason Aaron and Brian Wood are writing the other half, two guys I have a lot of faith in, plus it’s the X-Men and crossovers for them just work and are formatted differently. This means they usually work out better, which I attribute to the fact that no one writer gets 100% say in the event the way Bendis basically monopolized stuff like Secret Invasion and Siege.

For a slightly different perspective, I’m fairly certain that the COMBINED total of JUN sales estimate numbers for the 7 cancellation candidate titles will be less than the combined sales estimate total in OCT for the first issues of Justice League 3000 and Superman/Wonder Woman.

The combined total for both of the second issues in NOV will probably beat the JUN numbers for those 7 titles as well. If you were DC, what would you do? They could easily debut new characters and potential new tiles as back-up stories in any of their 3.99 books for a lot less risk or reader irritation at seeing a new title cancelled just as it seems to be getting interesting.

Hey readers, not that thrilled with our current back-up feature? Don’t worry, we’ll have a new back-up feature coming along faster than you can say, “Hey, did DC just cancel another low selling New52 title?!”

It’s also long become apparent that they are intent on renewing trademarks with a lot of this. That’s perfectly okay, but why can’t that business be taken care of with a one shot or quarterly anthology title, preferably filled with a bunch of decent done-in-one stories? It wasn’t a great number but I’m still impressed that the Young Romance one-shot sold about 21K copies that month. I have no doubt that a second issue the following month would have sold in the toilet, but I bet DC does it again next February. Probably with a different title (trademark renewal) and therefore – another first issue!

Incidentally, none of my comments is intended to be overly negative. This has been more of a “numbers never lie and have to make sense in business” sort of thing applied to the DC New52 titles.

Andrew Collins

July 12, 2013 at 7:50 pm

Yep, you’re correct that was Ollie’s first ongoing series back in 1987. Not counting his co-headlining series with GL back in the 70′s. I’m excited that DC is finally collecting Grell’s run on the series as it is a personal favorite and one of the best comics of its day. Solid artwork from Ed Hannigan and Dick Giordano in there too. I’m hoping that it sells well enough for DC to collect all 80 issues (plus the Shado and Wonder Year minis) of Grell’s tenure on GA but we’ll see…

DC needs to let the number 52 go in the worst way.

DC needs to drop from 52 series to like, 35. They’ve pissed off so much talent they don’t have enough to keep 52 different books running. And this is coming from someone who still (wants) to like them.

Either that, or make proper apologies to Greg Rucka, Peter David, and Mark Waid, and get them back where they can do some good. (While you’re at it say whatever you need to to convince Kieron Gillen to come work for you.)

What concerns me most on the DC solicits is the $3.99 books going to 32 pages instead of 40. To it’s credit, DC has mostly only charged $3.99 for books with additional material. But Superman Unchained and Batman/Superman launched at the higher price point/lower page count. Now not only is Superman/Wonder Woman doing the same but previous $3.99 40 page books are being solicited at 32 pages–Justice League, JLA, Action Comics. I noticed that also includes All Star Western. Now if this book wasn’t selling at $3.99 with 40 pages, there’s no way anyone will want to pay $3.99 for even less material.

(At least the digital first print titles have…for now…30 pages of story and art for $3.99 in print. I’m wondering how this model will last.)

But the writing is on the wall for this sort of thing: Marvel’s $ share is much higher than DC’s and I’m sure the Warner management folks attribute that to Marvel’s predominantly $3.99 price point. While that may be the case, it’s also a matter of giving the people what they want. Superman Unchained by Snyder & Lee may well sell for $3.99 (or even $4.99 as the 1st issue did) but people want Snyder & Lee on Superman. DC has few titles compared to Marvel that can justify a $3.99 price point for 32 pages.

(I’m old enough and grumpy enough to think that there is NO justification for a $3.99 32 page book. But that is not the reality of the situation right now.)

The more I read these GOF blogs, the less point I see in them, other than being a DC gripe session. If DC vexes you so much, why not read (& blog) about something else?

@ Michael:

Why on earth would DC cancel their JL books, all of which are relatively successful, especially when Marvel has over a half dozen Avengers titles, that they clearly don’t plan to cancel anytime soon?

@Diarra:

Since when is September a bad month? Especially for the past couple of years for the New 52?

@Anonymous 2:

You are so on point, with your whole post. The people clamoring for Indy & Creator-Owned stuff (all 4 of them) have no clue about the market.

@Sage:

Who is the “so much creative talent” the DC has pissed off? You can only name a handful of people that had creative differences with DC, in comparison to the greater majority that have openly stated that tjeir relationship with DC is great. You’ve been listening to internet hype when it comes to that.

There is room for at least 5 more Batman books and maybe the same number of Lantern books. Why not another JL book called JL Infinity or JL Affable?

George Perez, one of the greatest artists/creators/writers ever, just left DC….and while he was polite in a recent interview about the company, read between the lines. the thrashing he gave them while retaining his poise and proper manners was one of the most glaring & striking insights into the current inner workings at DC. this isn’t just a few jumping ship. its a few of the most high profile money makers DC or Marvel ever had, stating “we have had enough”. when they collectively leave, no matter how you spin control it, their fans will be going with them in droves.

for the most part. In today’s time, artists and writers are followed by their fans more than characters like batman and superman are, and thats a fact. look at what happened when Gail Simmone was let go, and immediately re signed by DC after the enormous outrage by fans. –even though i love some of the new 52, its a factual sinking ship.

2: Independents are where its at now days. anyone who states otherwise, has not researched how much bank Dynamite, idw, image, dark horse, boom studios, and others are garnishing net pay in sales on a monthly basis. why wouldn’t a reader want new characters, old characters they never heard of, and alternate takes on supes, like invincible, when we have had wolverine shoved in 18 plus titles since 2007, J.L.A. batman and supes animated dvds shoved down our throats, when we really want vixen, red tornado, and lesser known heroes to have some of the spotlight? look at their sales. steadily gaining steam within the last three years, and for dynamite, idw, and boom, they are becoming a locomotive, that superman is having trouble keeping up with.

There is no doubt that DC has alienated the top tier of creative talent in the industry. Just about every month there is another departure from their titles. And for no damn reason other than stupidity.

“When we really want Vixen, Red Tornado and lesser-known heroes to share in the spotlight?” Yes, someone actually just typed that.

I buy a lot of DC comics digitally and the 399 villians month is going to suck since the digital comics aren’t getting no 3d cover

@Hedley Maybe Finch was under time pressure to draw the promotional art. Luthor’s left arm looked bent out of place and so is Mr. Freeze’s right arm. but i like the Batman pose.

If Warner Bros. executives want higher numbers from DC, then DC just needs to copy Marvel.

1. Every team book needs to use iconic names
2. Charge $3.99 for ever popular book
3. Double ship every popular book
4. Hold at least one line-wide event a year
5. At least once a year, have your better selling titles cross-over with your weaker selling titles and/or have the weaker selling titles tie into a larger story in the better selling books
6. Hire the best writers you can, give them a modicum of independence
7. Cultivate a great stable of artists that have the ability to move from writer to writer

If it works for Marvel, why not DC?

@ shawn defiant

I wasn’t criticizing independents, I was criticizing the Indy-zombies who make incredibly illogical statements about what publishers, customers and retailers should do. A publisher is going to publish what they think they can sell – that’s the bottom line. They don’t have any other obligation to anyone other than that. Now going about that in a smart way is an entirely different matter and I’ll agree that DC and Marvel don’t always make the smartest moves when it comes to producing stuff they’re trying to sell to a shrinking audience.

They also both try to give readers new stuff, but they also need to feel comfortable launching new stuff since it’s much riskier launching a completely new property than going with something with an established audience, which is a smart way to avoid getting stuck with unsold product. That’s why they’re much more conservative about launching 100% new titles – it’s a format that works.

Another thing these idiots do is tell readers what they should and shouldn’t buy, because they have the gall to think they know what’s good for everybody. It’s basically the equivalent of a really religious person trying to force their beliefs down your throat – instead, they should just mind their own damn business.

Finally, the people trying to tell a retailer what they should do is what pisses me off the most and was the thing I saw in this particular comments section. It’s the piss-poor logic of it that annoys me – a retailer should order more copies from companies that usually don’t sell well because they’re both obligated to support said companies and also somehow, by having those extra copies, they’ll magically just end up being sold and get more comics readers to give up evil ol’ Marvel and DC. Seriously, what about that is not stupid? Retailers already have a good idea of what they can sell of each book every month because they have to order far in advance and it’s admittedly a fucked up system with a sharp learning curve – you’re not going to stay in business for very long as a retailer if you can’t master it. It all comes down to the fact that they’re going to buy what they know they can sell, and no amount of moralizing from indy internet “activists” is going to change that.

Geoff Johns, hmmmmmmm……overrated.

@1234 – numbers 6 and 7 were the formula followed by DC during the 90′s and they were successful because of it. i wonder what changed……

@ Anonymous2: fans are only leaving titles marvel and DC put out, because wolverines shoved in almost every main marvel comic, as a guest star, or otherwise, and putting a villain who kills for fun in spider-mans bod, plus event, after event after event. thats just the marvel side, DC has a few good things in the new 52. but putting profits over character development is factually becoming their downfall. none of the fan base of comic book anything has really left. —they just decided to go to Dynamite, idw, image, boom, top-cow, and dark-horse just to name a few. the problem is, when they left they decided to spread out, instead of picking two companies like they were when they bought only DC & marvel, they are now buying a few titles at image, a few at dark-horse, one or two at idw, and a few from Dynamite. and the overwhelming evidence is not only on message boards, but in the sales charts of those companies.

don’t like the new version of superman? invincible has stayed consistent for years. has the same power-set, and none of the baggage to keep fans from enjoyment. don’t like warner bros green hornet? hes public domain, and anyone can publish him. with Dynamite and moonstone graphics having a lot of successes with the character. tired of wolverine having to be forced into 18 plus books per month? ive yet to see that happen at dynamite, dark horse, image, boom, or any other independent with any character.

the problem is money cant, –can not be “the only” deciding factor for any comic store, publisher, or creator/writer. –since it is, its driving fans to buy several books from several independents who show they care about their characters, instead of buying from only two companies per month, which results in the market share being spread thin, and the facade of a shrinking market.— its the same buyers. they are just buying in a different pattern. character development has to come first. –DC should focus on Donna Troy, Vixen. black canary. red-tornado. jade.& firestorm. they have painted themselves in a hole with the trinity. –they changed them a bit, and lost market share. yet they had to do “something” different…or they would have lost the same market share.

currently, no independent company is in that mess yet. no one wants another batman origin. they want to see more of unsung heroes like Vixen, that haven’t yet had the spotlight much. look at message board after board, calling for them. but as long as they keep changing icons like superman, batman, and wonder-woman, they will loose market share. if they do nothing, and keep them the same, they will also loose to independents. reason: they are tired of those characters for now. and until they can go away for a time, they wont be popular again. we have to be given a reason to miss clark saving lois for the billionth time. we don’t have that problem with captain-midnight at dark horse….or invincible at image, or the green hornet, the spider, the shadow, the phantom, the owl, and the black-bat at Dynamite. –unless DC can focus on lesser known’s, and build them up into legends, this will be the pattern of fans switching.

How to fix DC:

Dismiss the people in charge of the company: Diane Nelson, Dan DiDio, Geoff Johns, Jim Lee, and Bob Harras.

@Bruce_Kent: Diane Nelson has very, very little to do with the day-to-day at DC Comics. If she’s screwed anything, its movies and cartoons. (I have to blame someone for getting Young Justice canceled, I guess.) But firing Jim Lee and Geoff Johns? Yes, let’s fire the most well-known modern artist in the game and the guy who sells the most comic books for DC hands down. The guy that made AQUAMAN popular. Let’s fire THAT guy.

Fans are free to like or dislike whoever they want, but let’s at least make sense when we say things.

@ Samurai36: Internet hype? DC’s a mess right now. I LOVE DC, but I love them enough to know when they’re seriously messing up. John Rozum. Paul Jenkins. Chris Roberson. Rob Liefeld. James Robinson. What happened with Gail Simone, even if she did get her job back.

I named a handful of names because those are writers I think are exceptionally talented, all of whom SHOULD have helped DC create their post-Flashpoint universe. Mark Waid should’ve been writing Superman alongside Grant Morrison’s Action Comics. Peter David had a great grasp on teen characters and should’ve been doing Teen Titans. Greg Rucka should’ve been doing Wonder Woman because I go to sleep when I even think about reading Brian Azzarello’s Wonder Woman. (Sacrilege, I know.)

You want to be a DC apologist? Fine. Me, I’d like them to get better, because they have my favorite characters and they USED to be responsible for some of my favorite comic books. And to be honest, that wasn’t that long ago.

@ Shawn:

Pardon me for saying so, but I believe your perspective is a bit biased.

Perez might be “one of the greatest….”, but he wasn’t, nor has he been a major draw in comics for the past several years, especially not at DC, & barely since his work on the New 52. What has he done lately?

Also, who are all the “high profile money makers” that have left/are making waves?

Not Perez, as I just mentioned. And not Robinson either. Sure, these people have cult followings, but they are barely to be considered “high profile money makers”. Robinson & Perez, for example, are best known for their previous works, not for anything current, or even recent.

While I definitely enjoyed Robinson’s E2 book, it wasn’t exactly blowing up the charts, from what I recall (although I could be wrong about that).

The “high profile money makers are the Geoff Johns’s, the Snyder’s, & the Bendis’s & Hickman’s. Whether you like it (or care to admit it) or not, those are the top tier talent that are driving the industry right now, not people like Perez & Robinson, who, while I have nothing against them, are not producing industry shattering material right now.

Your argument regarding the Indy market is totally & grossly inaccurate. It sounds like you are speaking strictly for yourself in this, rather than for the fanbase.

If second tier characters mean so much, why then didn’t/don’t they sell all that well, when the publishers make books featuring them??

Speaking for myself, I am a fan of nearly all of the New 52, & I like characters like Vixen & Vibe, as much as I like BM & SM.

I also could care less about most Indy books/publishers, with the exception of a few titles here & there.

With the exception of WD, Saga, & a few other titles, like someone else here said, most of the Indy product rots away on the shelves. How many Indy titles made the top 10 this past month? Or even top 20?

Bottom line: superhero comics from the Big 2 have always been, & likely will always be the driving force in the comics industry. Creators will come & go, but BM & SM will endureth forever.

@ Sage:

Show & prove that “DC is a mess right now”. You can’t do it. In fact, you named 5 or 6 people (I can’t believe that people have the audacity to add Liefield to that list; he shoulda never been at DC to begin with. Did YOU read/enjoy his titles? If not, then the defense rests), against the greater majority that are at DC, that are doing quite well, not to mention the fact that they continue to add new talent all the time.

For every creator that gripes & leaves, another 2 or 3 step up to take their place, & are doing quite well is less than 6 months of the transition.

Clamoring for your personal fave writers (Peter David, Mark Waid & the like) isn’t reflective of the industry right now. Currently, the industry belongs to the Johns’s & Snyder’s, the Hickman’s & the Bendis’s. You don’t like their work? Fine, but that doesn’t change the fact that apparently the majority of the fanbase (myself included) does.

I’m not an “apologist” for anything/one. I like/love DC’s current output of product. But if I didn’t, then I would move onto any number of the hundreds of choices in the comic market right now.

That’s what I did when I got tired of the X-Men; I jumped ship & never looked back. I would suggest you do the same.

P.S. I agree with you about Azz’s WW. With the exception of the last issue, I have not been a fan of that book.

@ SAMURAI36

Hold up, no reason to get the Liefeld-sucks noob secret handshake meme going here. Personally, I liked his short stints on Deathstroke and Hawkman; I liked Bennet’s and (I know I’m in the minority here but hey, it’s my right to like who I like) Liefeld’s art on the books. He took them in directions I found a lot more interesting than what preceded his runs, and I was actually sad to see him go.

I’ll admit that DC hasn’t been the best when it comes to creator relations – they have had something of a wave of people leaving the company and some of it has to be related. Look at Marvel’s creators in comparison – has anyone really left the company besides Rucka? I’m not saying it’s as the cynics are making out, but there does seem to be a pattern that shouldn’t be ignored.

@ shawn

Once again, I’m not disputing the growing market share of independents, but on a tangent, I believe a lot of big name creators have talked about how little money there is to make in the Indy market. As a company they may be able to profit but creators working for them tend not to be able to make a living doing just indy books. So what are they going to do if they are successful? Go somewhere that can pay them.

What I was saying was that individual indy titles don’t sell well compared to the BIg 2. They just don’t. And the only responsibility a retailer has is to buy what they believe they can sell. If they always have one or two copies left of the latest Manhattan Projects issue when they only order 5 copies a month, they aren’t obligated to now order ten during an event month to balance out the “evil corporate” comics they carry, as someone tried to say they should in these comments. That’s just piss-poor logic.

And money will always be the driving factor – these are BUSINESSES. If you don’t sell product, you don’t survive. Selling that product, has a lot of factors though, like making the books into a product that people want to buy, whether it be by putting hot creators on a title, advertising the hell out of it, keeping what they believe are high standards of quality control, and/or policing their characters and “brand” to make sure creators don’t take the company properties too far away from their iconic status. They are going to do these things in order to sell product because ultimately money DOES drive everything. Now, whether or not they are successful is an entirely different matter, and when it comes to DC, I think we’d have differing opinions.

@ Samurai:

No. I’m not going to play that game with you. The evidence is right in your face. I’ve seen you post on Bleeding Cool so I know you read their articles; there’s countless stories from writers leaving DC, disgusted from how they do business. Do you see those stories from Marvel? I’ve named nearly a dozen creators who have left DC because of their recent practices; can you do the same for Marvel? THERE’S your proof. Just because they’re capable of finding replacements to do the job doesn’t mean what they’re doing is right.

And what on EARTH are you talking about? Mark Waid is INCREDIBLY relevant right now. Daredevil is one of the most consistent critically-acclaimed books on the stands. Even Hulk is solid, if not exactly the critical darling DD is.

And what majority likes their work? I like Geoff Johns’s work, and he’s pretty much the only guy who can sell a comic book over at DC aside from Snyder’s work on Batman, but please tell me where people are lining up to buy Scott Lobdell on Superman, Action Comics and Teen Titans?

DC botched this reboot (by making it a relaunch), and has proceeded to make bonehead decision after bonehead decision. Maybe my way DC’s comics wouldn’t sell THAT much more the first time around, but they’d sure be written better.

No, not all of their comics are terrible (Earth 2, JL, JLA, Aquaman, Flash, Detective Comics, and a handful of other titles are decent) but that doesn’t mean DC couldn’t be doing MUCH better creatively if not sales-wise.

@ Anonymous:

You’re right: Liefield’s writing wasn’t the worst, but it was far from ground breaking either. I think it’s pretty much a consensus, that Liefield’s art is disgusting.

And, the most important fact, is that every single book that Liefield was on, got cancelled. What should we go by, if not by the numbers??

@ Sage:

Of you’ve seen me post at BC, then you know that I have a problem with the anti-DC internet hype that gets espoused on there.

So where exactly is this “evidence”? Because aside from a few names (& no, you didnt name “nearly a dozen”, either) you certainly haven’t presented it here. A handful of people does not a “pattern” make. So yes, there is no need to “play that game” with me.

So, you name ONE relevant creator, out of the list of 3 that are not relevant at the moment. How’s that prove your point, exactly?

I never said anything about Teen Titans, so I don’t know why you are mentioning that.

Johns
Snyder
Fawkes
Lemire
Soule
Vendetti
Simone

These are the top brass right now, & the future of DC. These are the people that are on the top selling books. Funny; out of the list of SIX people you named (still trying to figure out how that equals “nearly a dozen”), how many of them were on top selling books?

Anybody ever stop to think, that maybe these people were just underperformers?

Your opinion one where DC could be creatively/sales wise, is just that: an opinion. I’m fine with where DC is creatively. I buy/read about 90-95% of the New 52, & for the most part, I’m loving it. If you don’t like it, then I dunno what to tell you.

But sales is another matter entirely, & there are a host of issues that factor into that.

For one thing, it’s problematic to compare DC to Marvel on that front; Marvel puts out early more books than DC, they also ship several titles more often, & most of their books have a higher price point.

Perhaps DC could offer a special 25%-off deal on the New 52? “Bringing you the Best 39… Because you’re worth it.”

BTW, why are people listing Chris Roberson to that list?? His leaving had NOTHING to do with any editorial problems. He left due to his convictions surrounding Before Watchmen.

See, this is what I mean about internet hype.

Ok..I like comics but I’m not a “follower” when it comes to writers and artists. If I like the story or theme I’ll get it. But if you gave me a test on who is doing what…I would flunk. So I am a comic fan that just wants good comics. My recipe for DC comics would be:

1) stop with all the not-so-big events. I’m talking to you Green Lantern.

2) Let Vertigo give some of the mainstream DC charcters a make over. There are many characters from DC that could benefit from a more serious tone. Yeah they are still superheroes but if the stories focused more on the character and less on the powers…DC could crank out some interesting titles.
A example of this could be Penguin: Pain and Prejudice. It wasn’t a Vertigo title but it carried the emotional and drama that a Vertigo titles are known for. This could be done with so many lower tier DC characters.
Going to show my fangirlness here but I would love to see a Vertigo title featuring a Blue Lantern. DC has pretty much let them rot as a plot device even though their could be so many deep stories from the proclaimed “saints of the universe”.

Liefeld Sells comics to his fanatic fanbase. argue whether he should or not, and blah, blah, blah about Whether or not you like his art, or writing skills, facts are facts. he sells. —George Perez has done avengers J.L.A. and titans for decades at both the big two. the fact that hes jumping both ships speaks volumes to the fan base as he is seen by “most” as the comics staple. the only reason they have Gail simmone, is because they shit bricks when they saw the fan reaction when they let her go. they are treating creators like they are nothing. in favor of editorial mandates that do not make sense.

i love half of the new 52. i think superman should be wearing armor, as he has weaknesses in magics, and kryptonite. -batman armors himself against weaknesses, like bullets, so why wouldn’t superman? –i love earth two in spite of thinking i would hate the direction for it. —the titans are alright. not stellar, but alright. there are several other books like firestorm that i love. –but this wont justify what they are still doing to creators since the 1930′s. –this corporate mentality of money over character development first has been proven to be fail. it causes fans to leave in droves.

–again: Dynamite, dark-horse, idw, boom, image, top-cow, & even aspen comics are making strides. –strides in bank. taking large market shares. one top ten list from an s.m.h. company (diamond) who loves marvel & DC jock straps does not convince me of anything. i look at the numbers. all the independents i just mentioned, plus some independents i didn’t mention, are steadily signing Exclusives with top talent. —not only that, but they are consistent in paying that top talent what they wanted, and agreed to in their contracts. —companies that don’t make bank at all , don’t sign exclusives with top talent willing to work for them. they pay their shareholders and executives first. just like any other comics company does. if they are sooo in the red, how are they managing this month to month? –because fans are sick of DC and Marvel events, putting wolverine in way too many titles per month, 18, last i checked, villains becoming heroes, and taking over their bods, batman having to have his origin re-tweaked a bit every three or four years, & universes re-booted so that they have no choice but to tell origins again, just because they have zero clue what they are doing.

DC is a sinking ship. its holes are not only huge, they aren’t able to cover them up in an internet age. no spin control. no P.R. statement, will justify Perez leaving. this is the artist. the writer. Geoff johns had good intentions, and certainly did well with Aquaman. but everyone hates green lantern now. that books loosing readers faster than they can gain new ones. . ..Again: none of the fan base of comic book anything has really left. —they just decided to go to Dynamite, idw, image, boom, top-cow, aspen, and dark-horse just to name a few. the problem is, when they left they decided to spread out, & instead of picking two companies like they were when they bought only DC & marvel, they are now buying a few titles at image, a few at dark-horse, one or two at idw, and a few from Dynamite. and the overwhelming evidence is not only on message boards, but in the sales charts of those companies. top ten lists are lovely. –but sales charts of individual companies, plus the fact they are signing top talent, and regularly paying them, along with also steadily paying share holders, speaks volumes.

Johns
Snyder
Fawkes
Lemire
Soule
Vendetti
Simone

lol. only two or three of those regularly have the fan base talking.
Johns

Snyder

& Simone. —and again, DC recently let Simone go. fact. they re-signed her because they saw the fan reaction to the poor judgement there. which was a flaw that will eventually crucify the company. as they will repeat this kind of creator bashing. in this day and age, creators have the fan base. not characters. and DC needs to learn this. say what you want about Perez, and Liefeld. they have fans that are solid. whether ya like it or not, thats a fact.

@Shawn:

“Liefeld Sells comics to his fanatic fanbase. argue whether he should or not, and blah, blah, blah about Whether or not you like his art, or writing skills, facts are facts. he sells. —”

–What “fanbase” does Liefield have, exactly? Saying that he has a few people that like him, is NOT the same as hi. “selling”. To suggest otherwise, is stretching the truth, plain & simple.

Did his New 52 books “sell”? Did his Image garbage “sell”?

“George Perez has done avengers J.L.A. and titans for decades at both the big two. the fact that hes jumping both ships speaks volumes to the fan base as he is seen by “most” as the comics staple”.

–Perez hasn’t done a “great” book since the JL/Avengers book, that you mentioned (I say “great”, because those books really weren’t all that great to me, but I understand that the fans by & large loved them, so whatever). Perez is NOT high in demand right now. He wasn’t even in demand prior to the New 52.

“i love half of the new 52. i think superman should be wearing armor, as he has weaknesses in magics, and kryptonite. -batman armors himself against weaknesses, like bullets, so why wouldn’t superman? –i love earth two in spite of thinking i would hate the direction for it. —the titans are alright. not stellar, but alright. there are several other books like firestorm that i love. –but this wont justify what they are still doing to creators since the 1930′s. –this corporate mentality of money over character development first has been proven to be fail. it causes fans to leave in droves.”

–I agree with some of your likes of the New 52, especially BM & SM.

However, none of that has anything to do with the corporate structure. Not all creators are complaining. Not even half of them are. Not even a third of them.

I’ll be the first to admit, that the corporate structure clearly isn’t for everybody. But that doesn’t male it bad by default.

“DC is a sinking ship. its holes are not only huge, they aren’t able to cover them up in an internet age. no spin control. no P.R. statement, will justify Perez leaving. this is the artist. the writer. Geoff johns had good intentions, and certainly did well with Aquaman. but everyone hates green lantern now. that books loosing readers faster than they can gain new ones. ”

–See, this is one of the things that I really dislike about comic fans… They are the first to exaggerate, & male stuff up.

“EVERYONE” does not hate GL. Many, many people in the LCS I happen to work at love GL, both before Johns left, & even now.

Why don’t you try speaking for yourself, for a change? The charts (you know, the ones you say you don’t go by?) say that clearly SOMEbody loves GL.

“Again: none of the fan base of comic book anything has really left. —they just decided to go to Dynamite, idw, image, boom, top-cow, aspen, and dark-horse just to name a few. the problem is, when they left they decided to spread out, & instead of picking two companies like they were when they bought only DC & marvel, they are now buying a few titles at image, a few at dark-horse, one or two at idw, and a few from Dynamite. and the overwhelming evidence is not only on message boards, but in the sales charts of those companies. top ten lists are lovely. –but sales charts of individual companies, plus the fact they are signing top talent, and regularly paying them, along with also steadily paying share holders, speaks volumes. ”

–None of this says anything. Just because people buy, as you said, “a few” Indy titles, doesn’t mean that this detracts from the Big Two. 90% of my monthly list consists of DC, but I buy a few Indies too. So what does that say?

“Simone

lol. only two or three of those regularly have the fan base talking.
Johns

Snyder

& Simone. —and again, DC recently let Simone go. fact. they re-signed her because they saw the fan reaction to the poor judgement there. which was a flaw that will eventually crucify the company. as they will repeat this kind of creator bashing. in this day and age, creators have the fan base. not characters. and DC needs to learn this. say what you want about Perez, and Liefeld. they have fans that are solid. whether ya like it or not, thats a fact.”

–So wait, nobody’s talking about Lemire, but somehow the Indies are taking over the medium? Dude, what bubble do you live in???

The reality is, no one knows what happened with Simone. All we know, was that she was *allegedly* taken off Batgirl. That does not mean she was fired from.DC as a whole. But even still, no one (especially you) knows why she was “taken off” & put back on. All you have, is internet gossip & rumors.

“Did his New 52 books “sell”? Did his Image garbage “sell”?

both hawkman, and hawk and dove sold well. well enough to justify trades being issued later. deathstroke might not have done so well. his older image stuff sold to collectors, as well as his fan base. of course they aren’t going to be worth collector value in thirty years from when they were released, but it took superman seventy plus years to gain momentum that the early issues are just now having where collector value is concerned.

–”Perez hasn’t done a “great” book since the JL/Avengers book, that you mentioned (I say “great”, because those books really weren’t all that great to me, but I understand that the fans by & large loved them, so whatever). Perez is NOT high in demand right now. He wasn’t even in demand prior to the New 52.”–

both liefield and Perez regularly have long lines of people waiting to talk with them, get autographs, and willing to pay for simple unfinished at times sketches at conventions. –the fact that you deny this is absurd. -Perez never became unpopular, the dude had eye surgery, and had to stop or a bit. the fan base for him is overwhelming, on message boards, at cons, comic shops, e.c.t. go to a signing sometime.

–” none of that has anything to do with the corporate structure. Not all creators are complaining. Not even half of them are. Not even a third of them.

I’ll be the first to admit, that the corporate structure clearly isn’t for everybody. But that doesn’t male it bad by default”

a third of the “top” talent just left DC and marvel. others who are low on the totem pole, don’t yet have the luxury of saying how mistreated they are, as they might not be known enough to get work yet. then you have DC and Marvel lying about several characters that are in the public-domain, and creators from the thirties, & forties not being recognized for their contributions. not only is that technically illegal, but its continued mistreatment of those that are deceased. —ask anyone. they will most likely say creator owned independent companies is where they would like to end up.

“–See, this is one of the things that I really dislike about comic fans… They are the first to exaggerate, & male stuff up.

“EVERYONE” does not hate GL. Many, many people in the LCS I happen to work at love GL, both before Johns left, & even now.

Why don’t you try speaking for yourself, for a change? The charts (you know, the ones you say you don’t go by?) say that clearly SOMEbody loves GL.” —

im not just a fan. im also starting my own company. a lot of fans have expressed disdain for green lantern. for the monopolization of the color wheel and the term lantern, as well as event after event, and never any real conclusion.

–”Just because people buy, as you said, “a few” Indy titles, doesn’t mean that this detracts from the Big Two. 90% of my monthly list consists of DC, but I buy a few Indies too. So what does that say?”

a few?—lol… DC just rebooted their universe because of the lost revenue. again, indies are taking enough market share to pay their shareholders, pay their worker bees, and also sign top talent repeatedly lately. if those top ten lists were accurate, they wouldn’t be able to do this. —-this isn’t just one or two companies making payroll, staying afloat, and making bank. its by last count seven strong showings, and three more independents that are picking up steam. many comic fans are poor. they will then buy only what they really like. someones buying these independent titles. there’s no way DC and marvel could have the largest market share, and these independents, ten different companies, afford to hire who they regularly do, and still pay them, as well as their shareholders. dynamite is releasing seven new titles soon. on top of what, forty titles they now already have? companies don’t release new ongoing series, unless they have the bank for all that ink. -IDW has tmnt. the rocketeer, transformers. gi joe. ghostbusters. all steady showings as they would have already been canceled if they did not have steady showings. thats two companies in a literal sea of ten independent companies picking up new talent, and steam.

“, no one knows what happened with Simone.”

yes, yes we do. she told the fans what was going on herself. when DC saw the outcry on facebook alone, combined with the fact she stated she had a new ongoing creator owned series in the works, plus working on red sonja at dynamite, – they immediately re-signed her. the only thing we don’t know is what they offered her to come back, as she was fired through an e-mail, and not directly talked to, so it must have been a pretty penny after the way she was treated.

” All you have, is internet gossip & rumors.”

so…your calling Simone a gossip columnist? i was on her page when that hit the fan. i got her side of that little story, along with her other followers reading her page.

its ok to love “the characters” of the big two. i do as well. which is why i bash the hierarchy there, for the way creators and characters are repeatedly mistreated. but for you to say they have 90% of something independents have “shown” to have, and for you to state Perez hasn’t been popular for some time, is just riding the big two’s jockstraps. —go to a con sometime. go to a comic shop. ask whether Perez leaving DC is relevant. if DC and marvel were making 90% of the market share as they and diamond and you claim, –there would only be ten percent of the market share left for ten independent companies to split. which means seven of those companies would factually be out of business, and owe paper companies, & be in the red. –yet ten companies are signing talent, paying shareholders, and paying themselves bank. –Dynamite, Dark horse, boom studios, aspen entertainment. idw. Moonstone graphics, big dog ink, image, top-cow, valiant, and at least three other companies who are doing Grimm’s fairy tales are in that boat. all multi-title companies with more than ten books monthly. some with fifteen books that are selling all of their print run.

After the July numbers for the titles I had previously mentioned,

15,376 – All Star Western 22
14,524 – Movement 3
12,241 – JLA Vibe 6
12,062 – Batwing 22
11,792 – Stormwatch 22
11,346 – Katana 6
11,220 – Green Team 3 (Just consider what the numbers might be for the below solicited issue 6!)

I simply had to return to this thread to say I am STUNNED to see not just subsequent OCT and NOV solicitations for these titles but no indication of “FINAL ISSUE” for any of them!

NOV 2013 Solicitations:

All Star Western 25
Movement 6
JLA Vibe 9
Batwing 25
Stormwatch 25
Katana 9
Green Team 6

It’s as if the Villains Month may have afforded a bit of delay in dropping the expected axe, when I was certainly expecting the off month to be DC’s opportunity to review an extra month’s worth of numbers before a significant title chopping month and possible departure from the whole 52 title marketing. After all, the NOV solicitations are already down to 47 “New 52″ ongoing titles.

The numbers for August are going to be extremely interesting.

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