Robot 6

Grumpy Old Fan | In one adventure together

No, I am not checking to see if "Lois sandwich" is in the Urban Dictionary.

No, I am not checking to see if “Lois sandwich” is in the Urban Dictionary

This post concerns a movie that (if all goes as planned) won’t start filming until next year, and won’t be in theaters until 2015. I know next to nothing about it past the basic premise, a handful of cast members and a few educated guesses. Nevertheless, once I read the Superman/Batman movie announcement, two words kept popping into my head:

Black Widow.

See, I can’t help but think that in the sequel to Man of Steel, the Darknight Detective may get equal billing, but will necessarily have a subordinate role. This is not perfectly analogous to introducing Scarlett Johannson’s super-spy in Iron Man 2 — for one thing, that film wasn’t called Iron Man and Black Widow — but her role there was defined largely by the plot. Batman’s role in the as-yet-untitled sequel seems likely to have similar restrictions.

Indeed, we know some broad restrictions already: Batman won’t be played by Christian Bale, and the Christopher Nolan-directed trilogy doesn’t take place in the same “cinematic universe” as Man of Steel and this (prospective) new set of DC-superhero movies. That probably also means no Gary Oldman, Morgan Freeman, Michael Caine, or Joseph Gordon-Levitt in S/B.

The question then becomes whether the movie-going public is now sufficiently excited by the very idea of Batman — as opposed to the specific prospect of the Nolan/Bale Batman — teaming up with Man of Steel’s Superman. The obvious irony is that in a very real sense, the new Superman (guided by director Zack Snyder, producer Christopher Nolan and screenwriter David Goyer, and played by Henry Cavill) is the Nolan/Bale Batman’s successor, not his colleague. The Dark Knight trilogy has ended, and Snyder/Nolan/Goyer’s “DC Cinematic Universe” is designed explicitly to capitalize on its success. Calling Superman/Batman a bait-and-switch is too harsh, but I wonder how much the public’s enthusiasm for this movie will drop when they find out this isn’t a proper Dark Knight film.

Batman wasn’t that high on my wish list of Man of Steel 2 guest stars. Supergirl would have been good, although her origin now seems a little too similar to the Phantom Zoners’ exile, and Snyder and company would have to ensure she doesn’t come off like a more benign retread of Man Of Steel’s Faora. Green Lantern (not necessarily Hal, and probably not Guy) would fit easily into this more sci-fi-oriented Superman, and would offer a greater cosmic perspective on Superman’s role in the larger universe. The Flash’s “suddenly superheroic” origin could be a good contrast with Superman’s lifetime of coming to grips with his powers.

To be sure, these are probably the kinds of considerations that went into the team-up episodes of Smallville. That show famously couldn’t use Batman (and apparently had issues with Wonder Woman, but I think she deserves a movie all to herself), so I suppose it’s inevitable that the World’s Finest Team comes together in the largest setting.

Superman/Batman will probably need every bit of screen space, too. Because Amy Adams, Laurence Fishburne, and Diane Lane are supposed to return, and because LexCorp cameos hinted at Luthor in a sequel, it’s reasonable to presume this will be a “Superman movie” with Batman in it, and not so much of an equal partnership. Even if S/B introduced a new Batman, his basic origin would be relatively fresh in moviegoers’ minds, and wouldn’t need retelling. (Besides, Warner Bros. could always do a prequel. For example, an adaptation of the current “Zero Year” storyline would set this Batman’s origins apart from the Nolan trilogy’s “Year One”/Long Halloween influence.)

Using Batman in a primarily-Superman setting would be nothing new. The first Superman/Batman team-up (outside of the Justice Society) was in the 1940s’ Adventures of Superman radio show, and their first team-up in the comics was in Superman vol. 1 #76 (May-June 1952). The DC Animated Universe of the ‘90s and ‘00s started in 1992 with Batman: The Animated Series, but the two characters didn’t meet until several years later, in the three-part Superman: TAS arc “World’s Finest.” (For that matter, Superman: TAS saw the first DCAU appearances of Aquaman, the Flash and Green Lantern, among others.) Since then, Superman has appeared in various episodes of The Batman and Batman: The Brave and the Bold, while the aforementioned Smallville eventually introduced enough DC characters to populate a Justice League and Justice Society, and to get a good head start on the Suicide Squad.

However, Batman comes with his own entourage. So far, every live-action Batman movie since 1966 has been set largely in Gotham City, and has featured Alfred Pennyworth, James Gordon the Batcave, the Bat-Signal, some form of Bat-vehicle and at least one villain from the comics. If I had to speculate — and I want to get all this speculation out of my system early — I’d bet on Alfred and the Batplane, with not so much of Gordon, Gotham, or the Batcave. If a Bat-villain appears (and that’s by no means certain), I doubt Nolan and Snyder would invite any more comparisons by reusing one from the Dark Knight films. That means no Scarecrow, Rā’s al-Ghūl, Joker, Two-Face, Bane or Catwoman. The Tim Burton and Joel Schumacher films also used the Penguin, the Riddler, Mr. Freeze and Poison Ivy, and while I don’t see Snyder updating any of them, it may be premature to rule them out, too. I have to think Lex Luthor is in the lead for S/B’s main bad guy, what with LexCorp’s natural opposition to Wayne Enterprises, and I could see a Bat-villain getting involved with LexCorp somehow.

In fact, I could see Batman coming after Superman directly, taking a meta cue from negative audience reactions and wanting to rein in Superman so he doesn’t inadvertently lead to more death and destruction. This would be a natural fit with Luthor’s traditional view of the Last Son of Krypton as an unwanted influence on human society. Of course, it would fall to Superman (and Lois, probably) to set Batman straight. You’d have Batman vs. Superman, both vs. Luthor generally, Superman vs. Big Explodey Luthor Scheme, and Batman vs. Villain To Be Named Later.

Again, I come back to Black Widow in Iron Man 2, sneaking around and beating people up while Iron Man and War Machine fight killer drones. It wasn’t much different for Black Widow in Avengers, even after she had Chitauri to shoot. Batman may be psychologically complex and narratively versatile, but his adventures tend to happen on a much smaller, and arguably more personal, scale than Superman’s. While Batman Begins, The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises each took Bruce Wayne across the globe, none of those trips is really comparable to Superman’s zooming around the planet as a matter of course.

That being said, putting Superman and Batman together didn’t always require all these conceptual contortions. In the Brave and the Bold episode “Battle of the Superheroes,” Batman shows up in Metropolis on the trail of a thief and just decides to stick around for a few days to help out. It’s part of the show’s general “Batman is everywhere the story needs him to be” attitude, but it follows from the comics of the 1950s and ‘60s, when Batman traveling through space and time was pretty common. Indeed, the “sci-fi Batman” was part of a more general trend which had the Caped Crusader looking increasingly like the Metropolis Marvel. Both had secret headquarters and teenaged admirers, but Batman got his own reporter girlfriend (Vicki Vale), dog (Ace the Bat-Hound), and omnipotent other-dimensional pest (Bat-Mite) to go along with Lois Lane, Krypto and Mr. Mxyzptlk. These lasted until 1964′s “New Look” makeover, and the Denny O’Neil/Neal Adams era pretty much put them in mothballs. As those creative teams found success in their revitalizations, they didn’t need to follow Superman’s lead.

Along those lines, one might even argue that the two heroes’ post-Crisis On Infinite Earths split was reinforced in significant part in order to capitalize on the success of Frank Miller’s Dark Knight miniseries, where it first appeared. In the old days Batman and Superman were natural friends, because each was dedicated to the larger task of stamping out evil, yadda yadda yadda. Those stories didn’t have time to dwell on their heroes’ deeper motivations. When Miller broke down and rebuilt Batman, though, the contrast between his pragmatism and Superman’s embrace of the establishment (also pragmatic, but in a different way) informed fundamental differences in perspective between the two characters. It also elevated Batman above Superman in many fans’ minds, and the latter has never really recovered.

Therefore, today a Superman/Batman movie might well be viewed rather cynically, like Batman is some sort of performance-enhancing figure guaranteed to ensure success. On one hand I can’t blame the producers, because Man of Steel needs a strong follow-up to preserve whatever shared-universe mojo DC might now have. Regardless, I was hoping that MOS’s sequel would explore more of what makes Superman a good character. To a certain extent Batman can help with that, but right now, with what little we know, the team-up is a gimmick.

In the end, though, all team-ups are gimmicks, and we consumers of entertainment can only hope that they serve some valid storytelling purpose. In this case, Batman might serve Superman best by staying in the background, moving the plot forward, and occasionally offering his unique perspective. After all, it did wonders for Black Widow.

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41 Comments

I generally liked MOS, but the darker depiction of Superman made me wonder what would happen if/when Batman appeared. In the comics (or at least in older comics), the two characters were different enough to provide a contrast between the two. Think of the Batman/Superman team-up in the cartoon series as an example of the contrast. (The “Big Blue Boyscout” and “The Dark Knight”). It was their differences that made the initial meeting and subsequent team-up interesting. Since the contrast is now less pronounced, will we lose some of the dynamic that makes the team-up interesting? I hope not.

@TRat–

Unless DC used a happier, Adam-West style Batman to contrast our broody Superman. OK, that’ll never happen–I’m sure they’ll want to maintain the darker aspects of Batman even if Bale isn’t playing him and it’s not the “same” character.

“Along those lines, one might even argue that the two heroes’ post-Crisis On Infinite Earths split was reinforced in significant part in order to capitalize on the success of Frank Miller’s Dark Knight miniseries, where it first appeared. In the old days Batman and Superman were natural friends, because each was dedicated to the larger task of stamping out evil, yadda yadda yadda. Those stories didn’t have time to dwell on their heroes’ deeper motivations. When Miller broke down and rebuilt Batman, though, the contrast between his pragmatism and Superman’s embrace of the establishment (also pragmatic, but in a different way) informed fundamental differences in perspective between the two characters. It also elevated Batman above Superman in many fans’ minds, and the latter has never really recovered.”

I lke your article but I have to disagree with this paragraph.

When it comes to Superman, Miller did not explore his “deeper motivations” or anything like that. He completely mischaracterised the character and forced a ridiculous confrontation to make Batman look good.
Johns basically did the same thing to Batman in Rebirth in order to make Hal Jordan look good.

That’s my point. Batman will almost certainly be a dark and brooding character, there’s little commercial interest in an upbeat Batman (two words that don’t seem possible in the same sentence). But if Superman is also broody, is that going to be interesting on screen? Would that constitute a broody bromance? ( j/k )But let’s take that a step further. If they someday make the Justice League movie, and Wonder Woman is also dark and brooding, or maybe dark and a little bloodthursty (warrior personna), it’s going to seem like they’re all similar. I don’t see how that will translate well to a movie screen. One of the best things about the Avengers movies was the different personnas of the main characters.

Darthshap you are completely wrong. Go reread Dark Knight

Trey, if you’re going to disagree with Darthshap, at least bring one counterpoint to the table.

As much as I love Miller’s Dark Knight, I have often felt that Clark was a fairly simplistic foil for Bruce and little more. Visually stunning scenes with Clark, of course, but still character development wise not much there.

I agree with Darth. Love Miller, but he totally mischaracterised Superman as some government stooge willing to do anything they asked in order to keep helping people. Superman is not Ronald Reagan’s stooge. Superman fights for justice and the American way NOT the American government. And if an American government was corruptive as in DKR Superman would have been side-by-side with Batman taking them down.

A lot of writers make a similar mistake with Captain America, assuming that he never questions orders and would do anything the government told him to do. If you look at his history he has a lot of experience standing up to the government and refusing to compromise his ideals.

Tom, I think the fact that, as you mention, it wasn’t Iron Man and Black Widow is a big point; this is Superman/Batman, they aren’t going to sideline the latter.

And I’m delighted the ridiculous Bale Batman is gone, give me someone who sounds like a human and can move his head. Plus, a little less gloom for both characters would be lovely. I want them in a birdcage at the mercy of Luthor and Bainiac.

‘Bainiac’? sorry, I’m already merging Superman and Batman villains …

Jake Earlewine

July 26, 2013 at 5:44 am

“When Miller broke down and rebuilt Batman…”

I agree that Miller broke him down. Some of us are still waiting for him to be rebuilt.

Superman/Batman: Flash forward to a dark and brooding future where Superman and Batman battle one another for the privilege of killing the last supervillain.

I’m sorry but if you think Darthshap is wrong…you have no reading comprehension or understanding of Superman at all

Frank – Interesting points, and I tend to agree. I think that the current Superman is closer to what you want – it’s hard to see the “outlaw,early” Superman that Grant Morrison recently brought back in Action being a government stooge and, right now, Superman seems to have a very arms-length relationship with the American government. Which is how it should be.

RE: Captain America: good points here, too. However, I’d like to point out some irony in the argument. One of the more memorable Cap appearances over the past few decades was when he went after Nuke in Miller’s Daredevil. In that story, Miller made it very clear that Cap honored the American ideal and not the instruments of the state, including the military. It’s also interesting that in the Marvel “Civil War” series (which I despised) Cap was the leader of the forces opposing the state. He was explicitly disobeying orders there.

I think this will start out as a dance between both characters trying to figure each other out. Maybe Lois Lane and Clark Kent stir things up by working on articles exposing the methods and motives of corporate heads and entities, which would of course include Wayne industries and Lexcorp. Lois gets too deep into her investigation which draws the attention of Bruce Wayne, who in turn is doing his own investigation on Superman, the guy who broke his satellite . The conflict occurs when Lois gets into trouble with some corporate thugs, possibly Luthor men, and Batman appears because he is investigating the same bad guys because there is some fishy stuff going with these rival corporations. Superman then shows up attacking Batman thinking he is a threat to Lois. The fight consists of Batman trying to survive superman’s attack in clever batman ways. Batman escapes to fight as other day. Eventually, hopefully, through some good writing and character development, they come to realize that they are both not so bad, and there are real bad guys out there that need to be dealt with. The team up happens, then I hope to see Superman perform heroic rescues as disaster occurs, while Batman provides the street level fisticuffs on the baddies causing said disaster.

I’ve read Dark Knight Returns many times (it’s on my shelf) I can say positively that Frank Miller thought Superman was a joke, and a poor one at that. Jim Starlin addressed this issue in Cosmic Odyssey #1 when The President called Supes in a direct artistic parallel to DKR–and Superman muses to himself–”The President is going to have to learn I’m not one of his errand boys.” Frank Miller wanted to show how badass Bats was by beating Supes, End of Story, and while it was entertaining, it was not really Superman–not there, and not in the sequel either. Frank Miller fans may not like what I’m saying, but I’ve p/o-ed fans of Alan Moore and OSC and didn’t care then, either.

given how long fans have wanted superman and batman together in live action only due to some rights issue with batman. being denied warners is proving to finaly know how to do a movie dc universe right as long as they don’t have batamn role seem to be more side kick to superman. ala jimmy olson. plus if they use any bat rogues they could always have clay face or like the mad hatter as maybe working for luthor or better luthor and brainiac together using clayface or man bat as pawns. though warners could have really gone all out and included wonder woman too

I guess I’m one of the few people who think Superman/Batman movie is a good idea. For one, it annoys me that every reboot of these characters has to bore us with a 30 minute origin. We know Superman and Batman’s origin already, so lets just do a 1 minute summary of their origins, if you really think the viewing public is that moronic, and then actually go forward, for the first time, with Superman and Batman movies.

SUPERMAN died september 2011

July 28, 2013 at 1:22 pm

Its a HORRIBLE gimmick idea.

It is a huge diservice to BOTH characters… first off– SUPERMAN doesnt need any othe superhero in his trilogy…. Imagine if it was announced a month after BATMAN BEGINS came out that Superman would have equal billing in BATMAN BEGINS 2….. people would have been pissed!

Also this will be an all new batman ( which 90% of the movie going public does not realize). Only the comic community knows it wont be Bale. So now you have to win over both audiences with introducing an ALL NEW BATMAN.. thats a tricky thing to do even in his own movie.

But the worst thing of all is that organicly Batman does not fit into a superman origin trilogy. MOS2 still has to establish the mythos first. He just became clark kent and Superman was partial cause of the destruction of metropolise & smallville. We still havent met luthor or jimmy olsen. OR mild mannered CLARK KENT.
So forcing Batman into here in anyway shape or form ruins the movie.

You want a live action Batman/Superman film– youtube all the fan films that are out there.

Save this sort of team up for the JLA film wich will never be made.

It doesn’t matter if Miller’s characterization of Superman is “accurate” or not, because it’s an Elseworlds book set in the same Earth as Year One, All Star Batman and Robin, etc. On Miller’s Earth, that’s how Superman is. On DC’s Earth, not necessarily.

Personally I thought All Star and Strikes Back sucked, but at least it has the excuse of being an Elseworlds.

“SUPERMAN doesnt need any othe superhero in his trilogy…. Imagine if it was announced a month after BATMAN BEGINS came out that Superman would have equal billing in BATMAN BEGINS 2….. people would have been pissed!”

But this isn’t Superman 2 you cockgrip, it’s Superman/Batman. Presumably Superman 2 will be filmed after this, the Flash, and possibly Justice Leage.

Er, should have said Man of Steel 2 and not Superman 2.

“cockgrip?” Seriously? Sigh…

I love how everyone is trying to speculate about something with no details. It’s Superman and Batman in a movie. Together. I hope fanboys don’t mess this up.

Speculating on movies with no details is what nerds do. It’s like how sports fans speculate on who’s getting traded and all that business during the post season (or pre season, whatever). Except this is about movies instead of sports. That’s how I sees it. Anyways on to my speculation.

I think Bat/Supes is necessary on the road to Justice League. It helps get people used to the idea of Batman working along side super people. I also think the way MoS ended provides an impetus for this pairing to happen. Metropolis is going to need massive reconstruction. It seems natural that companies like Lex Corp and Wayne Enterprises would be involved. I look forward to see how they tackle this whole thing.

After Green Lantern, TDKR and MoS the only way I’m seeing this is to wait for the DvD and borrow it of a friend.

WB have NO idea what they are doing with their properties.

I’m just glad DC/WB is growing a pair and committing to developing a shared DC Cinematic Universe. It easily could have started with Green Lantern but they missed a golden opportunity by including a cloud as a villain (did they NOT watch FF 2?) Be bold and start setting dates for releases and give us the Justice League done proper.

Forgotten amidst the flurry of announcements was the clarification made by Snyder and co. that The Superman/Batman film was NOT the sequel, and that there is ANOTHER MoS sequel being done aside from this one.

MoS was such a morose movie, and the Dark Knight movies were too (but at least Batman is a bit of morose character) so I see the Superman/Batman movie (especially with the Dark Knight Returns as their tonal touch stone) being very more joyless and morose- which I doubt the public will embrace.

It will probably make more money than MoS, just like how Batman Forever made more money than Batman Returns. But just again like those movie, the makers are focusing on the wrong thing (camp and grim) and it will kill the franchise pretty soundly as they move to a MoS 3 or JLA.

I don’t mind them doing a world’s finest at all tbh, I called this months ago.

WB/DC really made a huge mistake with having an inexperienced superman fight off a group of kryptonians. They should have established superman and his supporting characters, intro luthor, maybe do something like superman confidential and have him beat up a giant robot. Then, like marvel, slowly introduce other supporting heroes with A NEW BATMAN being introduced (sorry it has to happen this way). With my hypothetical movie I would have each character have one movie each both having connections with one another while not having met to set up a world’s finest movie.

So when we do have the team-up movie I tend to think of it like this:

Every prominent part of each act that Lois Lane had in MOS should have been Bruce Wayne/Batman. Can you imagine a scenario where it’s in fact Bruce/Batman trying to locate Superman (who would already be established)? Can you imagine him getting into his fortress similar to how Lois did? How they meet? Their fight? Imagine if it was in fact Batman who made it onto the Kryptonian ship with help of Jor-el and helped defeat the war criminal kryptonians who are not powered? Would’ve been like Batman defeating the white martians (for those who read comics know this). That’s how I would have set it up.

Also my Batman would be different. I would have an emphasis on his utility belt, similar to how Stark is to his armors. When you think about it is one of batman’s greatest assets outside of his intelligence and fighting ability. So many creative venues that will never see the light of day. ugh….

Anyway this movie will be horrible because it has no direction and WB refuses to control their message the same way Marvel did way back in like 07 to now.

Writer…. Black Widow is a lackluster and poorly thought out comparion for a number of reasons. First off, Batman is a deductive genius, and has a ton of resources, financial and other, and will likely be able to play into the plot with these elements beyond just hitting things. Secondly, Batman has access to vehicles, which in addition to his wealth give him maneverability an access. His wealth, skill, stealth, resourcefulness, etc, allow him to do a lot of things that Superman cannot.

Now if this was Batman/Iron Man, I’d be a little more concern since Iron Man is also a genius with resources and he’s the “big gun” but this isn’t the case. Clark can be resourceful but not on the level of Bruce, and that provides both characters with different things to do in a story, as any reader of a Batman/Superman comic would be able to ascertain, much less a professional. What are you doing writer? Seriously?

Yeah, I’m cranky that was a bit harsher than I intended… but my remarks stand, but I don’t have an edit here to take out the disrespectful tone, so … um… oops?

SUPERMAN died september 2011

July 28, 2013 at 9:52 pm

First of all — there will be NO MOVIE in 2015 with Batman or superman.

Do your home work people… aside from WB having no clue what they are doing— the script would need to be finished NOW- which it isnt. ( GO listen to Snyders speech at comicon)

MAN OF STEEL was filmed in 2011. The entire smallville fight scene was september 2011. (I still have the images saved on my tower from that month.)
Which means- that the casting/ preproduction/ & script was done at least a yr or so prior to actual filming.

MOS2 or Worlds Finest- would need to begin filming next month in order to be out in 2015. OR at least by yrs end.

THe other thing to consider is that WB announced last fall that JLA was a definite for 2015…. then a few months later that quietly fell apart….. just as it did several other times over the last 15 yrs.

Some very interesting points, but in the interest of fairness, I do agree on some but not all.

1) Comparing Black Widow to Bats? Lol. One character is a multi-billion phenomena, the other? Some character who is played by a beautiful actress.

2) Quoting the DKR may have been the biggest insult to Superman fans. Is a Batman book, not a Superman one.

3) As a devout Bat fan, I expect it to be a Bat film in association with Superman. Technically, it is Superman featuring Batman, but for us Bat-fans, is the other way around. If it were a stand-alone film, it would just have Supermans name, but spoiler alert: Warner Bros is not having it that way.

In my eyes, I’m not seeing it as a Supes film — even though it is — I am seeing it as a Batman film as well. I will look at this film with the impression that Batman will play a bigger role in it(definitely bigger than Black Widow in Iron Man 2). It would be a waste of time for DC to make Batman do small cameos if it will have a ‘VS’ title in it. And it begs the next question:

Superman may have more than one villain, and that means Warner Bros will choose very carefully who will be the next villain, right? Because if it is called ‘Superman vs Batman’, the presumption will be that Batman will be the villain in a Superman movie. And after seeing MOS, I think the potential is there. Who there is to warn the world about Supes than Batman? Luthor may in fact play a role in the film, but he may lose air time. Why? All because of adding Batman. And Batman is the law and order individual, how would he react when Supes is knocking down government surveillance data off the sky? It happen towards the end at MOS. If the government can’t find Supermans lair, Batman definitely can.

So I expect Batman changing Superman for the better. I expect Batman putting Superman in his place. I expect to teach him the moral code of lawful behavior. Batman is a human, Superman is an alien. Superman finally got a job, Batman/Bruce Wayne creates jobs. Tell me if something changes, because I see a future where Batman is leading the way, and Superman understanding his role. Of course all things are subject to change, but Warner Bros got to execute it in a 2+ hr film. Is go big or go home. Then we wait. Patiently. Wait.

Daniël Loorbach

July 29, 2013 at 1:47 am

I agree with the statement that putting Supes and Bats together is a very hazardous situation. The reason Frank Miller pulled it off was because he chose the Dark Knight site. He liked pounding the life out off Superman.
What might work is a story arc where Lex Luthor becomes the president of the US of A and somehow forces a loyal Superman to serve him. Maybe a little blackmail of mind control. Superman as a executioner of a Marshall Law and a underground solitary Batman trying to start a revolution. It needs to be a big movie in terms of politics and ethic. It should make both of the superheroes bigger than life. Maybe unlikeable, remote, violent but the main engine should be about ethics, freedom and responsibilities and foremost emotions.
We all love comics because of the emotions behind it. We dream about them, hate them, try to understand them but most of all we love them.

I didn’t think superman was a terribly grim character, and I also didn’t see him as a mass murderer. its hilarious how no one batted an eye at iron man shooting 5 people in the head but superman throws someone into a (likely abandoned) building and its “oh the humanity!”

Regardless, Batman’s darkness can actually set the contrast between the two characters, maybe even with superman deciding to become lighter when he realizes the “crime-fighter methods” aren’t for him. Batman by contrast (who should already be an established hero, just working from the shadows) can realize that there are beings and problems too big for a man to handle, and he starts the road to Justice league using Supes as a figurehead.

You can still give a new Batman origin in another movie, as a prequel to their meeting. and because I heard it elsewhere and it was brilliant, Hugh Dancy for batman.

None of this will happen, but I’ll see it regardless, here’s hoping they really focus on the differences between the characters rather than just the obligatory fight scene.

But that’s part of the problem with this movie as a sequel to Man of Steel.
Where would the contrast be exactly?
Both are now grim, joyless characters, both now have very similar backgrounds, ie awful traumatizing childhoods and the tragic death of a close one which led them to travel the world in search for meaning.
What’s worse is that Batman might even seem the most moral, brightest of the two because he does not let Gotham get destroyed, he does not kill and he was not forced into becoming a superhero by an ultimatum.

I would look at previous Batman/Superman team-ups in animation for clues as to what would work. Introduce Batman into the story by having Bruce Wayne enter into a business partnership with LexCorp. The Waye/Luthor partnership leads to teh main threat of the story. Perhaps they are examining a Brainiac probe that fell to Earth. Perhaps they are developing a new medical technology that leads to the birth of Bizarro. Maybe they are experimenting with kryptonite and end up creating a new form of the substance.

“Forgotten amidst the flurry of announcements was the clarification made by Snyder and co. that The Superman/Batman film was NOT the sequel, and that there is ANOTHER MoS sequel being done aside from this one.”

It’s only forgotten if you didn’t read where I already said that a few posts before yours.

Bryan Grantham

July 29, 2013 at 1:22 pm

I am sure many of you have seen this already, but this really fun fake trailer by Sandy Collora shows how much fans can do on a low budget, and how many characteristics of both Superman and Batman (not to mention the supporting characters/villains) can be covered in just a quick trailer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=J-yVEbQa3wk&list=PLA841415D265C0428

It’s too bad DC/Warners can’t seem to understand the most basic things about their own characters….

I’m among those looking forward to this. It actually makes some sense: They want to get Batman back into theatres sooner than later without being bogged down by the “too soon for a reboot?” question (there will probably be some of that but not to the same degree as another solo movie right away). A duo movie lets them try something that isn’t imitating Marvel. And perhaps most importantly, many people have wanted to see those two in the same live action movie for a very long time. Two of comics’ biggest icons together.

Now will it be a great movie? Hard to tell. The first draft of the script’s not even written yet. But unless there’s a lot of symbolism to the movie, and I doubt there will be, there’s no other reason to see this or any other popcorn movie than to have fun. So I’m going to assume I’ll have fun seeing it until proven otherwise. If anyone really believes it will suck, just don’t see the thing; it’s your leisure time and you should use it to do something you’d enjoy doing.

All inclinations point to batman being the main protagonist to superman, until they both realize they are on the same side. luthor, if done right, will be in the film, but will take at least three films to build up to the evil luthor. As for this being a bad idea, fans have wanted chris reeve, and Michael keaton to do this since superman 2, & batman one came out. –it will be successful no matter what because of this. –as for great storytelling, READ THE COMICS. there’s almost a century of great stories. films will always disappoint on some level.

personally, i would make the scarecrow the villain, (as he was in one of the first worlds finest team ups)..and he uses magic, or something along those lines to affect both superman & batman, & get them to fight one another. supes is scared that bats will eventually kill to get what he wants, & doesn’t understand Bruce’s version of justice, …and batman fears what superman can do to normal people, if hes ever controlled by magics, or other alien devices. –scarecrow then adds some fun to the mix, by employing clayface to mix it up with both heroes. all the while lexcorp wants a hostile takeover of wayne industries, and wayne tech. which gives lois the question of why lex wants waynes assets sooo bad.

i would add the beginnings of red-tornado and vixen in this, as lexcorp competes with wayntech, through creating his own armada, which backfires, as vixen and reddy take the high road and become heroes. –that would only take thirteen min. of film over the duration of the film,..just a few scenes here and there. i wouldn’t focus on wonder-woman yet. or flash, or green lantern until a league film. unless wonder-woman can get her own film first, which i think she deserves, i think they should utilize this vehicle to focus on lesser known heroes.

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